Chicago Bears Offseason Thread (the tank must payoff)

[Hairyducked Idiot]

1 hour ago, Outshined_One said:

There was a fair amount of chatter on 670 this morning about the Bears having significant interest in RT Darnell Wright (either at 9 or in a trade down).  So the theory goes, Skoronski and Johnson would likely need to move either to RT or the interior, but Wright is already NFL-ready at RT and could slot in immediately, rather than run the risk of joining an already crowded group of potential guards.

It's impossible to tell what's real and what's smokescreen at this point in the process, but I wouldn't hate that. Especially after a trade down.

[Outshined_One]

29 minutes ago, jersey cubs fan said:

I think id take supreme ability at a specific tackle spot over versatility in the first round. You can fill in versatile tackles whenever, but a 10 year starter is the ideal. 

That's where my mind went with those discussions.  With Skoronski, Johnson, and Broderick Jones, the question ultimately is where you see them end up playing in 3-5 years.  If you don't think any of them will ultimately stick at T, then someone like Wright makes sense if you think he's NFL ready and can man the position long term.

However, the question of value is another matter altogether.  If Wright can be had at 15 or 20, you're hopefully not reaching to get him at 9.

[raw]

I know we have a small sample size with Poles, but nothing about his 14 months on the job says to me that he will pick Darnell Wright at 9. He's plenty athletic and long-armed, but unless they feel better about him at LT than 2021 tape shows or think he has inside versatility as some draft "experts" do. He doesn't have the versatility nor is the he the absolute freak athletically in space that the Bears have told everyone who listens that they love. 

Wright is still extremely good. And may very well be the best OT in this class, and I wouldn't be surprised if they targeted him after a trade down. But there's 2 OTs at the top who are more toolsy with more athletic upside. Johnson is longer than Wright and has actually shown versatility to play inside and on the opposite side of the formation. Wright seems way too "safe" for what Poles has done so far. This is not to say I would hate the move. And honestly, it would show me a lot that Poles sees how bad this OL is and wants more of a Day 1 ready guy at RT instead of building for 2024 and taking the best player available.

Wright is a pure need. They have a hole at RT. He plays RT and basically only RT. He's as "win now" as a pick for the Bears can get in this draft. But he does still have upside and I absolutely LOVE the thought of him playing at 315-320 in the outside zone scheme. So kind of the best of both worlds, but I don't see Poles taking anyone at 9 that he could possibly get later in the draft by trading down.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

With the offensive linemen in this draft, it just feels like they're all pretty flawed.  If I'm taking an OL high in the first round, I want scouts to be telling he's a no-doubt average tackle at worst.

[raw]

The problem with that is that can go for any position in this draft. You have talked about how you don't want defense with the first pick. So on offense, you aren't taking a QB. You could get WR1, but IMO WR1 also isn't a top 10 talent. Smith-Njigba may not have outside versatility, so may never be a true #1 WR that you'd hope you're getting top 10. TE isn't worthy of a top 10 pick almost ever (of it may be next year). And then you have guard and tackle. You don't want to take OG1 top 10 as it's simply not a high value position. Even the best OG prospect of the last 10 years (Quinton Nelson) has already already made the descent from elite within his first 5 seasons. 

Even on defense, there's a very real chance the Bears don't get DT1, DE1 or 2, or CB1 or 2 at the 9th pick. So, you're probably going to have to "settle" on a non-elite prospect in the top 10, unless you can find a trade down. Of course, the same reason why you would want to trade down is why it will be hard for teams trading up.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Just now, raw said:

The problem with that is that can go for any position in this draft. You have talked about how you don't want defense with the first pick. So on offense, you aren't taking a QB. You could get WR1, but IMO WR1 also isn't a top 10 talent. Smith-Njigba may not have outside versatility, so may never be a true #1 WR that you'd hope you're getting top 10. TE isn't worthy of a top 10 pick almost ever (of it may be next year). And then you have guard and tackle. You don't want to take OG1 top 10 as it's simply not a high value position. Even the best OG prospect of the last 10 years (Quinton Nelson) has already already made the descent from elite within his first 5 seasons. 

Even on defense, there's a very real chance the Bears don't get DT1, DE1 or 2, or CB1 or 2 at the 9th pick. So, you're probably going to have to "settle" on a non-elite prospect in the top 10, unless you can find a trade down. Of course, the same reason why you would want to trade down is why it will be hard for teams trading up.

I was about to come edit to clarify.  That's a totally fair response.

I don't mean I don't want any of them. Any of the top OL would be fine for me because even if they aren't perfect, I would still rather have an OL than a defensive piece.

The lack of a clear no-doubt tackle just means I would be ok drafting something else.  If there was a better OL, i'd want him to the exclusion of anyone else.

Even if we take a *gag* defensive player, I'll be fine with it because the only no-doubt offensive talent at 9 is probably a running back and who wants that, or a slot WR who I do want but I can understand if 9th overall is too steep for him 

 

[Rex Buckingham]

is RT a little more valuable to the Bears than to a team with a less mobile QB due to the number of rollouts and scrambles?

[raw]

11 hours ago, Rex Buckingham said:

is RT a little more valuable to the Bears than to a team with a less mobile QB due to the number of rollouts and scrambles?

I think in general tackles are less important to a team with mobile QBs. But it happens that the Bears mobile QB also likes to hold onto the ball for a long time. So, that makes the OT position more important. Rollouts do take away some of the importance of the tackles, but scrambles are a result of pressure so in theory, better RT = less scrambles. 

[raw]

[Tryptamine]

If PJJ really goes #3 like the rumors say, then I think I'm on the Devon Witherspoon train for #9. I don't really want Skoronski there and I'd rather they trade back if taking an OT.

[CubinNY]

This is such an important draft for Poles. There are still so many question marks, not the least of which is, do they really have a franchise QB? Poles almost has to go protection, targets, and then defense even if it means a slight reach in the early rounds. They can't go into another season with a bad OL and iffy receiver corps. They can work on upgrading the defense later in the draft and early in the next draft.

[jersey cubs fan]

35 minutes ago, CubinNY said:

This is such an important draft for Poles. There are still so many question marks, not the least of which is, do they really have a franchise QB? Poles almost has to go protection, targets, and then defense even if it means a slight reach in the early rounds. They can't go into another season with a bad OL and iffy receiver corps. They can work on upgrading the defense later in the draft and early in the next draft.

They already have a much better than iffy receiver corps. They have a decent enough tight end. Another target or two won’t hurt but it’s a pretty decent group now with Moore pushing Mooney and everyone else down a slot. They can afford to spend those first four picks on either D or O. 
they do need new offensive line help 

[BigbadB]

19 minutes ago, jersey cubs fan said:

They already have a much better than iffy receiver corps. They have a decent enough tight end. Another target or two won’t hurt but it’s a pretty decent group now with Moore pushing Mooney and everyone else down a slot. They can afford to spend those first four picks on either D or O. 
they do need new offensive line help 

They also have Robert Tonyan who helps out the TE room quite a bit, also. 

[gflore34]

14 minutes ago, jersey cubs fan said:

They already have a much better than iffy receiver corps. They have a decent enough tight end. Another target or two won’t hurt but it’s a pretty decent group now with Moore pushing Mooney and everyone else down a slot. They can afford to spend those first four picks on either D or O. 
they do need new offensive line help 

It appears to us the OL is without question priority one, believe it appeared the same way last season.  Given what played out I do not believe it lock Poles is going OL at #9, after what he said about DB's and CB's being value or whatever he called it positions.  I can't get away from thinking he's going draft whomever is available from Witherspoon, Gonzalez or Porter.  Then go heavy OL and DL with next picks.

[BigbadB]

Poles grabbing whatever he could with that first pick trade when he did was brilliant. Polls are all over the place at this point. It kinda feels like the Draft Day movie now where the QB's that were currently the hottest ticket in town are now possibly sliding. I just read an article that said Levin might go first in this draft, and that he's more than likely the favorite to go 2nd. Hendon Hooker's stock is rising like crazy now, too. There are still a lot of teams looking for QB's, so Poles does still have a chance to get his guy at #9, whoever that may be.

I'm not so sure the first pick is worth nearly as much now as it was when Poles made the deal. 

[Brian707]

I think it is better than 50/50 Poles trades down on draft night. Would someone want to jump the Eagles to get Bijan Robinson?

[Old Style]

53 minutes ago, Brian707 said:

I think it is better than 50/50 Poles trades down on draft night. Would someone want to jump the Eagles to get Bijan Robinson?

That feels like a Jerry Jones move.

[Tryptamine]

1 hour ago, Brian707 said:

I think it is better than 50/50 Poles trades down on draft night. Would someone want to jump the Eagles to get Bijan Robinson?

I lean this way as well, especially if PJJ is gone. I don't think there's that much difference between Skoronski, Broderick Jones or Darnell Wright and I'd feel safe one of them would be there at 15-17. 

[raw]

I think if Paris Johnson goes before 9, as is the most recent rumor(s), then that's more reason for the Bears to stay at 9 and take a tackle. If PJJ is gone, You're not getting one of the top guys if you trade too far down. 

The rumored teams wanting OT are definitely: Arizona, NY Jets, Steelers, Patriots; and maybe Vegas, Philly, Detroit and Atlanta if you include Skoronski

[apete6]

I've been doing like a million of the draft simulator things. While I love the idea of trading down for more picks, it would be tough to have the #1 pick and not end up with a guy who is a day 1 starter and likely pro-bowler.

Overall, I looked at the roster again and can't believe how bad the defensive line/edge is. If they used 4 picks on the defensive line, I wouldn't bat an eye--there's a chance all 4 of those guys would get the most playing time on the D-line this year, it's that bad currently. 

[Bobson Dugnutt]

Assuming PJJ is off the board, I’m ok with whatever direction Poles wants to go between OL, DB, and WR. Fine with a trade down too.

I like Skoronski a lot, but after listening to Brandon Thorn from Trench Warfare talk about him on Hoge & Jahns podcast last week, it seems his best fit as as a guard, where Thorn believes he can be elite. What OL talent the team does have is concentrated on the interior, but I’m not opposed to upgrading if there’s an all-pro caliber G sitting there. That said, we’re still left with a gaping hole at RT and could still certainly afford to upgrade at center.

I’m fine with Wright or Jones if they feel like they can come right in and play and stabilize RT, but can get on board with Witherspoon/Gonzalez or one of the WRs to really turn one of those position groups into a strength and hedge against impending FA departures.

[UMFan83]

1 hour ago, apete6 said:

I've been doing like a million of the draft simulator things. While I love the idea of trading down for more picks, it would be tough to have the #1 pick and not end up with a guy who is a day 1 starter and likely pro-bowler.

Overall, I looked at the roster again and can't believe how bad the defensive line/edge is. If they used 4 picks on the defensive line, I wouldn't bat an eye--there's a chance all 4 of those guys would get the most playing time on the D-line this year, it's that bad currently. 

I mean to be fair DJ Moore is a Day 1 starter and potential Pro Bowler and that’s already in the bag. So they do get some immediate help due to having 1 overall regardless of who is drafted and how they turn out. 

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I assume we aren't tanking anymore, but I'm fine with taking someone who appears redundant if we think they're the best talent.  We need to be drafting for long-term value, not immediate impact.  I'm not going to let the existence of Teven Jenkins or Mooney/Claypool (both in contract years) dissuade me from Skoronski/JSN, if that's who they like.

[jersey cubs fan]

2 minutes ago, Hairyducked Idiot said:

I assume we aren't tanking anymore, but I'm fine with taking someone who appears redundant if we think they're the best talent.  We need to be drafting for long-term value, not immediate impact.  I'm not going to let the existence of Teven Jenkins or Mooney/Claypool (both in contract years) dissuade me from Skoronski/JSN, if that's who they like.

[JeffH]

9 minutes ago, Hairyducked Idiot said:

Skoronski/JSN

One of these things is not like the other.