Chicago Bears Offseason Thread (the tank must payoff)

[gflore34]

5 minutes ago, CubinNY said:

If I were in Poles's shoes, there is no way in hell I'd even consider a second drafting Carter. Carter has bust flashing in a big red neon sign over his head. If some team wants to offer a trade back with added value and I thought I could get an extra person on my list. I'd easily say yes.

I agree, hard pass on Carter.  However, is there any doubt Poles, if he stays at #9, is going to take Carter or a DB - Gonzales?

[JeffH]

46 minutes ago, raw said:

I do think the 9th pick comes down to:

1. Are we OK with Carter's character? 

2. Is Paris Johnson a blue chip player?

3. Trade down

I don't know if I really see anyone else picked at 9, unless they can't find a trade (seems unlikely) and both are gone. 

I think Lukas Van Ness is a very real possibility.

[UMFan83]

Don't know much about him but ok.  Had 6.5 sacks in 2021 which would have been 2.5 more than any Bear last year.  Only 62 PFF grade last year

Edited April 6, 2023 by UMFan83

[Rex Buckingham]

if a DL has had any kind of production, they add value to this current Bears roster

[jersey cubs fan]

1 hour ago, UMFan83 said:

Don't know much about him but ok.  Had 6.5 sacks in 2021 which would have been 2.5 more than any Bear last year.  Only 62 PFF grade last year

This signing makes it easier for the Bears to draft my favorite homegrown white player at another position, my column:

Edited April 6, 2023 by jersey cubs fan

[WrigleyField 22]

Who cares about some flyer DL. 

Enemy number 1 of Bears Twitter had... A moment... Tonight...

 

Edited April 7, 2023 by WrigleyField 22

[WrigleyField 22]

Deserves it all for his shitty Fields takes 

*popcorn gif*

 

[UMFan83]

 

Guessing this confirms Whitehair to Center? (or just cut I guess)

[UK]

Raw, talk me out of my growing affection for Tuipulotu. Him or Roy as the pass rush heavy 3 tech sounds good (Tui w/64 or Roy in the 4th)

[JeffH]

For any subscribers to "The Atlantic", Dane Brugler's "The Beast" draft guide is out.

[raw]

19 hours ago, UK said:

Raw, talk me out of my growing affection for Tuipulotu. Him or Roy as the pass rush heavy 3 tech sounds good (Tui w/64 or Roy in the 4th)

Well, Tuipulotu only weighed in at 266lbs after being listed at like 290 for USC, so he basically shed the "tweener" label and went all in on being an edge rusher. I'd like him a lot more if he was a 3-tech. Maybe he adds the weight (if he ever had it) and can become a 3T, but I certainly wouldn't want to be the one to take him in the top 75 to do that.

He's a fine player, and as an edge he has a great motor and is very skilled with his hands, I don't know if he has the quickness and bend to be more than a rotational player. I wish I knew how athletic he was. He still hasn't worked out, not at the combine and USC had it's pro day, so I'm guessing he has an injury of some sort, so that makes things even worse IMO. I think he's an early to mid Day 3 guy at this point (rounds 4 or 5).

[UK]

The weight thing threw me off. I had seen him listed at 290 then 265. Wasn't sure if it was bad info on the 265. 

At 290 with that production, he's a legit candidate for the second rd picks. Of course, 265 without seeing him drops him like you said.

Just so many damn holes on this team. I like the concept of trading up for D Wright (if they draft Carter) but at what cost such as not getting a DB like Brents or a WR like Downs in the 2nd.

[raw]

Agreed about the too many holes. But IMO, the important ones are 3-tech and RT. If they get building blocks there, everything else is gravy.

They can sign a CB (Ya-Sin, Griffin, or god forbid, Eli Apple). They can sign Floyd or Ngakoue at edge. There's nobody on the market they can sign at DT or RT that would make me feel better about those positions. So, they have to draft them, IMO. 

But Carter makes the DL much better. Right now, Demarcus Walker would need like 80% of the snaps. Justin Jones didn't hold up to a bunch of snaps and no talent around him last year, so it would help him as well. And obviously, RT has only dudes that were benched (Borom, Leatherwood). 

Positions like RB, WR, TE, OL depth, could all use draft picks, but the groups as is you can get by with for a year. Tired of doing that, but is what it is at that point.

[jumbo]

Some Twitter stuff out there about Steelers wanting to trade up and that they’ve talked to the bears about it, among other teams. 
jimmy johnson chart says 17+49 = 1360, #9=1350

I didn’t look up the others. Getting 32 back would be slick but not likely. 

[Splendid Splinter]

17+32+80 for 9+53 works if you wanted your 2nd pick back with the Steelers.

3 hours ago, jumbo said:

Some Twitter stuff out there about Steelers wanting to trade up and that they’ve talked to the bears about it, among other teams. 
jimmy johnson chart says 17+49 = 1360, #9=1350

I didn’t look up the others. Getting 32 back would be slick but not likely. 

 

[Tryptamine]

23 hours ago, jumbo said:

Some Twitter stuff out there about Steelers wanting to trade up and that they’ve talked to the bears about it, among other teams. 
jimmy johnson chart says 17+49 = 1360, #9=1350

I didn’t look up the others. Getting 32 back would be slick but not likely. 

For moving back yet again, I'm not looking for fair if I'm Poles. I'm looking for 17+32 at minimum. Unless someone is willing to meet a crazy price, I have very little interest in missing out on the guys who will gone by #17

[CubinNY]

14 hours ago, Tryptamine said:

For moving back yet again, I'm not looking for fair if I'm Poles. I'm looking for 17+32 at minimum. Unless someone is willing to meet a crazy price, I have very little interest in missing out on the guys who will gone by #17

I'd say I agree, but it's not a strong enough sentiment. Some team is going to have to give him a Godfather offer. I doubt that will happen.

Edited April 13, 2023 by CubinNY

[jumbo]

On 4/13/2023 at 8:31 AM, CubinNY said:

I'd say I agree, but it's not a strong enough sentiment. Some team is going to have to give him a Godfather offer. I doubt that will happen.

I hear about his "clouds" of players on podcasts, and I think if his 7 blue chips are gone he'll trade back. He can do this because the roster has so many holes.

[CubinNY]

wrong thread

Edited April 14, 2023 by CubinNY

[raw]

A lot of smoke today about Jalen Carter not making it past the Bears at 9. With the Steelers stuff also coming out, sounds like it's Carter or trade down for the Bears. But again, this is lying season with the draft now within 2 weeks.

I'm kind of torn. I'd love to get another top 35 pick in this draft. But the best way for me to feel comfortable-ish with the DL is to take Carter at 9.

With Carter, you'd have your big piece of the defense. The 3-tech that makes the pass rush go. I'd feel a lot better about the DL as guys like Justin Jones and Demarcus Walker would go to much more sustainable, rotational players and not guys that look like they will get like 75% of the snaps right now. And if you add a Day 2 DE, you can have a couple pretty solid rotations at DE and DT, with 1 potential stud on the line.

Unfortunately though, with no 2nd pick until 53, you're looking at an either/or situation with being comfortable with the OL or the DL. With a trade down, you could add a guy at each position, but you'd also lose the level of comfortable that DT1 or OT1 would provide. Now, if you told me they could get Darnell Wright and an Adebawore from a trade down, I'd take that. I'd be pretty comfortable at OL, but DL would still be iffy.

So essentially, Carter is the only DT that could make me feel good about the DL, while any of the top 4 OTs (and even Skoronski if they think he can play there) would make me feel OK with the OL. So, I'm good with the Carter or trade down move. That being said, while Paris Johnson isn't your typical top 10 LT, it would be tough to pass on him, if he's there. By all accounts, he is an absolute pillar of a human being and good guys with elite athletic traits tend to work out. So there's still some risk involved with passing up OT at 9, even beyond Carter's off field stuff.

[UMFan83]

Man I just don't trust Carter.  Obviously recognize that he's maybe the most talented person in the draft, but I cant shake the feeling that he's going to flame out.  It's a risky pick.

[raw]

10 hours ago, UMFan83 said:

Man I just don't trust Carter.  Obviously recognize that he's maybe the most talented person in the draft, but I cant shake the feeling that he's going to flame out.  It's a risky pick.

It is risky, and I'm not sure if I trust him either. But I feel like if the Bears pick him, they'll have done their due diligence as they've met with him a ton. So, their trust would increase my trust. 

[Bertz]

I'd be ecstatic to end up with Carter.  I feel like so many "how the hell did he fall so far" situations are "Well, he was a top 5 pick on February 1st but then the league spent 2 months picking nits and overthinking it and he dropped."

This does make me more mad we didn't address RT in FA.  I feel like if we end up with Carter, the next move should be to use 53 and 61 to jump back up and grab a tackle.  If Poles had addressed RT, he could have just let Day 2 come to him.

[jersey cubs fan]

11 minutes ago, Bertz said:

I'd be ecstatic to end up with Carter.  I feel like so many "how the hell did he fall so far" situations are "Well, he was a top 5 pick on February 1st but then the league spent 2 months picking nits and overthinking it and he dropped."

This does make me more mad we didn't address RT in FA.  I feel like if we end up with Carter, the next move should be to use 53 and 61 to jump back up and grab a tackle.  If Poles had addressed RT, he could have just let Day 2 come to him.

But most of the time guys fall it’s because they smoked marijuana, not that they fell grossly out of shape for the combine, were involved in a criminally related death and might not want to play football. That being said, I don’t think he makes it past the bears because he will be taken before they pick. 

[raw]

Just putting some thoughts out there. So, I'm starting to kind of see the Poles plan coming together. OR at least what I hope to be the plan. Right now, Poles is taking the quantity approach. 2022 draft he somehow managed 11 picks, though 8 of them were outside of the top 150. This year, Poles has 10 picks so far (wouldn't be surprised to see 1 or 2 more), with 8 of them in the TOP 150. 

Seems like he is working the roster for the bottom up, probably out of necessity. To be fair, he could have done a bit more than he did last offseason, but obviously there wasn't a huge avenue to add much top end talent with limited cap and early draft picks. Of those 11 picks, 2 of the 3 top 150 picks look like they will be solid starters for this team going forward (Gordon, Brisker). Poles was also able to hopefully find a solid starter after 150 in Braxton Jones. While, the Bears have already cut/lost Zachary Thomas, and guys like Ebner and Kramer may not be long for this roster; they also added a punter and potential depth guys like Carter, Velus, and Robinson. So in summary, you're looking at 1 pretty good starter (Brisker), and 2 other guys that will start with a decent chance of being decent starters (Jones, Gordon), a gadget player and return man who was overdrafted but has a potentially valuable role on the team based on recent history of Hester/Patterson, 2 depth guys, and a punter. 

This year, with the increase in the high picks, you will have a legitimate 8 players that should make this roster. You'd hope the highest pick becomes a really good starter and building block for the roster. And then those three Day 2 picks, you'd hope you'd get a similar hit rate of Brisker, Gordon, Jones Jr. (1 good starter, 1 potentially solid starter). Then the Bears have 4 picks in the 75-150 range, where they had 0 picks last year. So, remains to be seen what Poles can do there. Then I wouldn't expect much from the 7th round picks, unless Poles decides to draft a kicker or longsnapper to come away with another "starter" on a technicality. 

Of the guys Poles added outside of the draft, you do have 2 potential superstars in DJ Moore and Tremaine Edmunds. You have TJ Edwards, Nate Davis and Demarcus Walker as guys that should be above average to pretty good starters. Then you have short-term guys that will have important roles that you hope will be average or better (like Claypool, Patrick, Green, Billings, Justin Jones, etc)

And of the draft picks Poles inherited, you hope you have a potential superstar at the most important position in sports. You have above average starters in Mooney, Kmet and Jackson, with Mooney and Kmet with potential of being long-term pieces if re-signed. Then there's guys like Herbert, Jenkins, and Johnson who may or may not be long-term pieces, but should be solid starters, with the potential of signing long-term if they take another step (Herbert in an increased role, Jenkins with health, Johnson w/ ball production). 

So, the Bears have some pieces. They are missing the superstar level talent needed to be a true competitor. Obviously, most important is Fields getting to that level, but the 2024 draft is setting up as a potential year to add multiple star players with likely two picks in the top 15. Throw in the 2nd rounder, and you have a chance to add 3 players next year who went higher than Brisker went last year. Trade down this year (or package picks to move up) and you have the potential to add 2 such players this year. It's frustrating to go through a rebuilding, especially when the GM essentially wasted a year of a rookie QB contract, but that wasted year will be a pivotal part of potentially getting this team to championship level.