Chicago Bears Offseason Thread (the tank must payoff)

[raw]

The Eagles traded for AJ Brown in part because Reagor was a bust of a pick. I guess you could argue the same with the Bears and the Claypool trade, but they also immediately got rid of Reagor, which is basically what I said they'd have to do with Claypool to make the pick even make sense at 9.

 

I’d day they should already be there. Claypool’s been legit bad for two years now. At this point he’s basically Denzel Mims but Bears, a standout athlete for the position but not a top 3 WR on a quality depth chart (maybe they luck into one with Jones and Mooney). I can’t imagine there’s any stress about pushing Claypool down the depth chart with his very cheap deal

 

Personally my Plan A for the Bears would be to walk out of this draft with all 3 of Johnston (top WR), Robinson (top RB), and Kinkaid the TE to compliment the more prototypical Kmet…Grab some late round IOL in a strong C/G draft, one of the late round QBs I listed for the Jets, and really see what Fields has with an offense that can attract next year’s top available NFL QB if things go south

 

2 years? He's only played 3 years. 2020 was a pretty good rookie year. 2021 he duplicated his rookie numbers everywhere but TD catches, despite playing 1 fewer game and with Big Ben being an actual corpse. 2022 he played with 2 teams, 2 completely different schemes, and 4 different starting QBs. I mean, he's probably not that good, but I don't think you can say he's "bad" based on that.

 

I do agree with not stressing about pushing him down the depth chart because he's cheap, but it's also a waste of resources. I understand sunk costs and all, but you gave up the 32nd pick. Maybe they are turned off by him not learning the offense fast enough, but he had 125 snaps with Fields, then Justin missed the Jets game right when Claypool got comfortable in the offense (that week was his highest snap count w/ the Bears). The next week, he and Fields connected 5x in 1 1/3 quarters, Claypool got injured and basically missed every game until Week 18, when Fields sat again and Chase had his 2nd highest snap count. Like I said, maybe they didn't like his work ethic or fit or whatever, but there's otherwise no reason to dump him without really seeing what he can do in the offense.

 

Also, not sure how you plan to pull off adding 3 first rounders to the offense this year.

[David]

Moore not a outside guy? What did you just look at his height?

 

while being as careful as I can not to read his posts too closely, he said mooney isn't an outside guy

[WrigleyField 22]

Moore not a outside guy? What did you just look at his height?

 

while being as careful as I can not to read his posts too closely, he said mooney isn't an outside guy

Oops

 

Anyways Mooney is not an X, but he's an outside guy. Doesn't line up out of slot a ton.

[raw]

How they would get close to pulling that off.

 

:dontknow: I just assume there's so much noise in today's leagues (all the players are both good and not good depending) that the combo of being specific, having cap space, and having lots to trade pretty much makes everyone available. They're not short on picks, have two firsts in 2024 including one from a talented Panthers team in a weak division

 

2 years? He's only played 3 years. 2020 was a pretty good rookie year. 2021 he duplicated his rookie numbers everywhere but TD catches, despite playing 1 fewer game and with Big Ben being an actual corpse. 2022 he played with 2 teams, 2 completely different schemes, and 4 different starting QBs. I mean, he's probably not that good, but I don't think you can say he's "bad" based on that.

 

I do agree with not stressing about pushing him down the depth chart because he's cheap, but it's also a waste of resources. I understand sunk costs and all, but you gave up the 32nd pick. Maybe they are turned off by him not learning the offense fast enough, but he had 125 snaps with Fields, then Justin missed the Jets game right when Claypool got comfortable in the offense (that week was his highest snap count w/ the Bears). The next week, he and Fields connected 5x in 1 1/3 quarters, Claypool got injured and basically missed every game until Week 18, when Fields sat again and Chase had his 2nd highest snap count. Like I said, maybe they didn't like his work ethic or fit or whatever, but there's otherwise no reason to dump him without really seeing what he can do in the offense.

 

Quibbling about how long he's been bad aside, the point is that Poles would be making a mistake if trying to make the Claypool trade work is bleeding into the rest of the offseason. Another way to look at Claypool's 2022 is 2 different teams gave him an open lane as a 3rd year WR viewed with some upside and he came up with 43/450/1. I'm not the one suggesting dump him either, just that they aren't in a good place at WR, pass catching, or offense in general once you get beyond Moore and maybe that it's OK to not use a 2nd round pick perfectly

 

Quibbling doesn't apply when arguing fact vs non fact.

 

But anyway, I agree it's OK if Claypool isn't good. The pick was worth a shot that your QB had help last year and into this year.. But if it was worth a shot middle of last season, it's definitely worth a shot for this season with a full offseason, camp and with another weapon taking the focus off of him to see if he can provide some value. Taking another WR at 9 (who isn't a top 10 player in this draft, IMO) just compounds the issue. You'll never get your answer on if Claypool was worth it because won't be enough footballs to go around. And you won't get to capitalize on the potential that he reaches his potential and the benefits of what happens if he at least shows his rookie season promise and gets paid handsomely by another team.

 

There's a ton of WRs every year. It kinda defeats the purpose, IMO if you insist DJ Moore be included in the trade, just to spend your top asset on another guy at his same position. If JSN is worthy of the 9th pick, he should be worthy to build your WR corps around and then that 2025 1st has much more value than Moore, who while he wouldn't be redundant, also would not be worth the loss of the pick because JSN would serve the same purpose to allow Fields to take the next step.

[minnesotacubsfan]

I feel like the Bears are in position to take a top 6 talent given all the focus on QBs this year. JSN doesn't seem like that guy

[Splendid Splinter]

Do you even watch NFL? Or are you just looking at numbers and nothing else??

 

What top teams are three deep outside of Bengals??

 

“The one bottom line fact either of us really care about is that, without doubt, Claypool was not a starting caliber NFL WR last year on a team that currently only for sure has one.“- Outside of Jefferson, Kupp, Chase, and Tyreek, everyone else would’ve not been a starting caliber WR with the QBs that was throwing to Claypool last year.

 

You’re also forgetting about Mooney here so Claypool is #3. Him at #3 WR is better than a lot of the other teams #3.

[UK]

WR is completely out of the question as far drafting BPA over need. There's no WR in the top 10 overall. When it was only Herbert, I would have supported Robinson given that I feel he's the 3rd best overall in the draft.

 

I don't think I'd be as disappointed if it's someone like C. Gonzalez given I prefer him to either of the tackles overall (6 compared to 9) . However, the need is obviously greater at OT than CB.

 

Ideally, Carter falls and they get the BPA and fill the greatest position of need.

[Splendid Splinter]

What top teams are three deep outside of Bengals??

 

Eagles have Brown, Smith, and Watkins...Bills have the underrated Gabriel Davis and McKeznie to go with Diggs...Dolphins just added Berrios to Waddle and Hill...the Brady Bucs ran with Evans, Godwin, and Brown...I'm sure the Saints thought Olave, Thomas, and Landry had a run in them...same for the Jets with Wilson, Davis, and Moore (they've since added Lazzard, Hardman, dropped Moore, and there's still talk of an OBJ or Mike Evans or even drafting Johnston if they don't trade 13 and he falls)....Detroit had a quality NFL WR with some experience, DJ Chark, catch the 4th most passes among WRs on their roster...Arizona's got Hopkins, Brown and Moore...The Browns just traded for Elijah Moore to join Amari Cooper and Peoples-Jones...Raiders have Adams, Meyers, and Renfrow...Kirk, Ridley, and Jones in Jacksonville...It's only going to become more common!

 

You’re also forgetting about Mooney here so Claypool is #3. Him at #3 WR is better than a lot of the other teams #3.

 

Mooney finished the year with an ankle injury and Claypool is coming off an all around bad year in 2022. Sorry but I just can't wrap my head around the pushback against knocking these guys down the depth chart. Fields threw 318 passes to 8 different WRs last year, there's plenty for everyone

 

Are you seriously saying Watkins, Berrios, McKenzie, Elijah Moore, Lazard, Hardman, Rondale Moore are what you consider top 3 WRs, but Mooney and Claypool aren’t??

 

You realized that almost all those names basically had the same type of season or worse than Claypool’s right? Number wise… And some of them had their “best” year. Like I’m trying to figure out where you are going with this.

 

It’s not a pushback against knocking these guys down the depth. It’s the fact you like completely ignore/underrate Mooney and Claypool, but yet see somebody like Elijah Moore as a better WR. Could you draft a guy like JSN or Johnston or Addison and add more weapon?? Sure, but it’s not a priority since Bears added Moore to the mix. I think you underestimate how much he’ll help the rest of WRs and just how talented Mooney/Claypool really are.

[raw]

 

Mooney finished the year with an ankle injury and Claypool is coming off an all around bad year in 2022. Sorry but I just can't wrap my head around the pushback against knocking these guys down the depth chart. Fields threw 318 passes to 8 different WRs last year, there's plenty for everyone

 

318 was easily the least amount in the league for any starting QB. DJ Moore averages 123 targets per year by himself. He's a year removed from 163 targets, that's over half of what Fields threw this year. If Moore is a true #1 WR they think he is, he should be getting around 130-140 targets. That leaves less than 200 targets for the other 3 WRs (if you draft one early), Kmet, TE2, all RBs, Velus, and St Brown. Now obviously, the Bears should be throwing the ball more than they did in a historically low passing year last year. But they aren't going to be the Chiefs, Bucs or Chargers and throw the ball 650 times to make it worth having high assets getting WR4 targets.

 

Logically, it makes sense. Having more weapons is good. But there are a limited number of resources involved here (number or targets , not to mention draft pick resources for other needs) and there are diminishing returns the more weapons you add. It's not like DL where you can rotate a bunch of guys and keep them fresh. It's not like OL where there is a high level of attrition (despite Mooney, Claypool, and Pringle missing multiple games last year, WR is not an high injury position). At some point, you literally aren't going to be able to get all these guys on the field. Even if you do, you aren't going to be able to get all these guys the ball, which is the entire point of having multiple weapons.

[Splendid Splinter]

If Moore is a true #1 WR they think he is

 

Has the org *actually* said this in any meaningful way (or at least the way it's implied: that he was the end of shopping at WR) or did they just acquire a bonafide NFL player at a position they were less talented at than pretty much any team in the league last year?

 

That leaves less than 200 targets for the other 3 WRs (if you draft one early), Kmet, TE2, all RBs, Velus, and St Brown.

 

What's the obligation here? The only one of these guys who didn't poop their pants with an open lane to lots of touches on the 2022 Bears was Kmet. This in a league in which the average franchise threw 560+ times (meaning Fields isn't going to limited to 318 passes unless the offense continues to be him and one other guy)! Redundancy at WR...not enough balls to go around for all the pass catchers....these are not things the 2023 Bears have to worry about!

 

Also a reminder that Mooney, the 2022 roster's only competently performing NFL WR, finished last season with an ankle surgery

 

 

Best case for Fields is something like Hurts. He ended up with 460 pass attempts so we’re talking ~140 more. You’re probably gonna see something like 130 targets Moore/ 100 Mooney/ 90 Claypool/ 70 Kmet. That’s 390 so that means 70 targets left for the rest of the team to hit 460. I don’t think they’ll go over that because of their running game.

[BigbadB]

I don't see Poles taking a WR with his first pick unless all of the blue chip guys he has his eye on were all gobbled up before #9. And if he did decide to go WR, he would likely trade back again to do so.

[UMFan83]

 

Seems to be a solid special teamer and LB depth

 

Someone posted this last month:

 

[jersey cubs fan]

I reserve the right to make a snarky “all they did was sign linebackers” post in the future but this seems additive.

[bukie]

Bears going back to the old Buddy Ryan 4-6 defense, but with 6 linebackers.

[minnesotacubsfan]

That's not what the 4-6 was but yea, maybe a modern interpretation

[WrigleyField 22]

It's actually just gonna be 4 LB and 6 DB.

[gflore34]

It's actually just gonna be 4 LB and 6 DB.

 

Do the 6 DB's include the one numb nuts is going to take at 9? Many think it should be OL or DL or WR or even RB at 9 but, I was thinking what if one of Witherspoon or Gonzalez is available? Some have suggested Poles subscribing to the idea of being stronger on the backside of defense than up front. Given what he's done during FA and last year's first two picks, could be a strong possibility.

[WrigleyField 22]

It's actually just gonna be 4 LB and 6 DB.

 

Do the 6 DB's include the one numb nuts is going to take at 9? Many think it should be OL or DL or WR or even RB at 9 but, I was thinking what if one of Witherspoon or Gonzalez is available? Some have suggested Poles subscribing to the idea of being stronger on the backside of defense than up front. Given what he's done during FA and last year's first two picks, could be a strong possibility.

I'm planning on it actually.

 

Last year you could hardly find a Bears fan who wasn't mocking some combo of OL-WR in round 2. The Twitter meltdown was fun that night

[David]

seeing all this back and forth going with tom, it just occurred to me that conor orr called the bears a top 10 skill position group after the moore trade.

 

i'm not sure if it got discussed at all when it happened.

 

seems a bit high to me but I also see where it's probably a good deal better than most think. it's more than fair to want to wait to see how mooney comes back from the injury and to be skeptical of claypool after last year, though. i'm pretty comfortable saying i expect him to do well as a #3/2a (however it works out with mooney), particularly with something to prove for a contract.

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2023/03/14/nfl-chicago-bears-acing-pivotal-offseason

 

Before free agency has even officially started, the Bears have temporarily stabilized the quarterback position and generated an organization-wide confidence in Justin Fields, created one of the 10 best groupings of skill-position talent in the NFL and anchored the linebacking corps with two young players who will help directly target some of the strategic advantages their divisional opponents deploy (and, really, since most of the league uses a McVay or Shanahan playbook, almost all of their opponents).

[jumbo]

Moore not a outside guy? What did you just look at his height?

 

while being as careful as I can not to read his posts too closely, he said mooney isn't an outside guy

 

Use the "mute" tool, that's what I do

[minnesotacubsfan]

seeing all this back and forth going with tom, it just occurred to me that conor orr called the bears a top 10 skill position group after the moore trade.

 

i'm not sure if it got discussed at all when it happened.

 

seems a bit high to me but I also see where it's probably a good deal better than most think. it's more than fair to want to wait to see how mooney comes back from the injury and to be skeptical of claypool after last year, though. i'm pretty comfortable saying i expect him to do well as a #3/2a (however it works out with mooney), particularly with something to prove for a contract.

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2023/03/14/nfl-chicago-bears-acing-pivotal-offseason

 

Before free agency has even officially started, the Bears have temporarily stabilized the quarterback position and generated an organization-wide confidence in Justin Fields, created one of the 10 best groupings of skill-position talent in the NFL and anchored the linebacking corps with two young players who will help directly target some of the strategic advantages their divisional opponents deploy (and, really, since most of the league uses a McVay or Shanahan playbook, almost all of their opponents).

Obviously, a Qb setting qb records (Fields)boosts the overall skill pos ratings a lot. But it's fun to see the Bears getting praise for it in general.

[apete6]

I see people continuing to suggest trading down for more and more picks. I understand the team sucks and you need a ton of talent, but to not even get a blue chip player out of the #1 overall pick would hurt. I like DJ Moore, but don't consider him a blue chip guy (which I'll define as a top 5 player at your position or top150 player in the entire league). Maybe you don't get one of those at #9, either, but you at least give yourself a better chance than at 15 or whatever.

 

I still probably would have just taken whatever Houston was willing to give to move to #1 and take Will Anderson #2 overall unless you subsequently got bowled over by an offer the night of the draft. I think Anderson could be a Myles Garrett type guy and will be an awesome blue chip level player.

[jersey cubs fan]

I see people continuing to suggest trading down for more and more picks. I understand the team sucks and you need a ton of talent, but to not even get a blue chip player out of the #1 overall pick would hurt. I like DJ Moore, but don't consider him a blue chip guy (which I'll define as a top 5 player at your position or top150 player in the entire league). Maybe you don't get one of those at #9, either, but you at least give yourself a better chance than at 15 or whatever.

 

I still probably would have just taken whatever Houston was willing to give to move to #1 and take Will Anderson #2 overall unless you subsequently got bowled over by an offer the night of the draft. I think Anderson could be a Myles Garrett type guy and will be an awesome blue chip level player.

I mean cool, that’s fun, but Myles garret is getting old and spent his entire career on a crappy team. Defensive studs are fun but they don’t win you games.

[UMFan83]

Saw this blurb on ESPN talking about how every team fared in FA so far. Thought the info about how they deploy Tonyan and Kmet is interesting:

 

Chicago Bears

Marquee additions: DJ Moore (WR), Tremaine Edmunds (LB), Nate Davis (G)

 

Marquee subtractions: David Montgomery (RB), Riley Reiff (OT)

 

Did the Bears hit their free agency goals? Getting a No. 1 receiver is pivotal for Justin Fields' development at quarterback, which was why general manager Ryan Poles was comfortable trading the top overall draft pick to Carolina in exchange for Moore and four picks ahead of free agency. The Bears still have roster holes -- notably with their pass rush -- and can't realistically fill every void in one offseason, but the moves they made in the first wave and secondary signings such as TE Robert Tonyan and RB D'Onta Foreman check the value and need boxes.

 

One thing we heard: Tonyan, who has a career a 77.8% catch rate and averages 10.5 yards per reception, has the Bears eager about his ability to stretch the field. I'm hearing that Chicago coaches envision fellow tight end Cole Kmet playing more of the "Y" position, where he'll be counted on as a blocker. Kmet is eligible for an extension this offseason. Keep an eye on how this affects what the Bears opt to do with a potential second contract.

 

 

Biggest remaining roster hole: The offensive and defensive lines. The Bears own the ninth pick in the draft and could be in play for a top offensive tackle -- like Northwestern's Peter Skoronski or Ohio State's Paris Johnson Jr. -- or draft a pass-rusher at that spot. However Chicago chooses to improve its pass protection and blocking will lead to a shuffle of personnel during offseason workouts. -- Courtney Cronin

[Old Style]

LOL @ Riley Reiff being a marquee subtraction.