Jim Edmonds Signs With Cubs, Pie to AAA

[BigbadB]

Knowing the Cubs people, Edmonds won't have to show much to prove worthy (to them) of a callup to the majors.

 

I'd be shocked if Edmonds played a single game in the minors. I fully expect to see him batting 5th Wednesday or Thursday for your Chicago Cubs.

[nickynick]

Look , I hate Edmonds as much as the next guy. I hate the way he played a shallow center field so he could make easy catches look great. I hate the way he would watch his homers. But this is a low risk move. If he sucks, it only cost you $280,000 and you could release him.

 

I do think that the Cubs are hurting Pie's growth, somewhat. But sometimes I think that Felix fails to learn from his mistakes. He still swings at the same junk breaking balls. The bottom line is what is more important to the team right now? Winning or Felix's development? I hope it is winning.

[Chocolate Milk]

I love how people keep talking about Edmonds' numbers this year, yet when people were talking about Theriot's hot start a week or two ago it was all about the sample size.

You got us.

[sporrer17]

I fear it's much more likely that Edmonds will be our Jason Kendall v2.0 as opposed to mere speculation. Hopefully there are similar results in a prospect pushing him out of the picture later in the year.

 

So you mean we'll let a promising young player sit in AAA and tear it up there while we trade/sign for a overrated declining veteran? Does that mean Pie will be as good as Soto next year? :lol:

[gflore34]

He's almost certainly done.

Indeed. He'd be a terrible pick up at this point in his career.

 

I hope this is more speculation than sourced material.

 

Where's Bruce Miles?

 

 

I fear it's much more likely that Edmonds will be our Jason Kendall v2.0 as opposed to mere speculation. Hopefully there are similar results in a prospect pushing him out of the picture later in the year.

 

I believe this may the case as well, at least Pie will get regular playing time at Iowa, he can work on lying off the eye high fastballs and in-the-dirt breaking balls. And when Edmonds inevitably craps out, Pie will ready to take over.

[jersey cubs fan]

Look , I hate Edmonds as much as the next guy. I hate the way he played a shallow center field so he could make easy catches look great. I hate the way he would watch his homers. But this is a low risk move. If he sucks, it only cost you $280,000 and you could release him.

 

I do think that the Cubs are hurting Pie's growth, somewhat. But sometimes I think that Felix fails to learn from his mistakes. He still swings at the same junk breaking balls. The bottom line is what is more important to the team right now? Winning or Felix's development? I hope it is winning.

 

You act as if this team can't win with Felix. That's nonsense.

 

The Cubs offense has been perfectly fine while getting nothing from CF against RHP. Clearly they can succeed with Pie in CF against RHP. Edmonds doesn't even offer an upgrade in that regard. Early in a season when you are scoring lots of runs and winning lots of games is the absolute easiest time to try and let a kid develop on a contender.

 

This isn't low risk. The risk is that Edmonds hits in the 5th spot, keeps sucking, but keeps playing because the Cubs are absolute failures at realizing when a veteran is done. Jason Kendall kept blowing chunks for months while Soto was destroying the ball, yet the Cubs did nothing. This move could easily cost a game, not to mention delays Pie's development and reduce his trade value.

 

There's no rational support for this move, only nonsensical "proven veteran" conventional wisdom BS.

[nickynick]

Look , I hate Edmonds as much as the next guy. I hate the way he played a shallow center field so he could make easy catches look great. I hate the way he would watch his homers. But this is a low risk move. If he sucks, it only cost you $280,000 and you could release him.

 

I do think that the Cubs are hurting Pie's growth, somewhat. But sometimes I think that Felix fails to learn from his mistakes. He still swings at the same junk breaking balls. The bottom line is what is more important to the team right now? Winning or Felix's development? I hope it is winning.

 

You act as if this team can't win with Felix. That's nonsense.

 

 

Thats not it at all. I just think that Cubs have put winning a World Series in front of developing Felix. I don't know if this is the right move or not. I not sure if I like the idea of signing Edmonds. Felix needs ABs and Lou is not going to play him then only way he will get ABs is in the minors.

[CuseCubFan69]

Look , I hate Edmonds as much as the next guy. I hate the way he played a shallow center field so he could make easy catches look great. I hate the way he would watch his homers. But this is a low risk move. If he sucks, it only cost you $280,000 and you could release him.

 

I do think that the Cubs are hurting Pie's growth, somewhat. But sometimes I think that Felix fails to learn from his mistakes. He still swings at the same junk breaking balls. The bottom line is what is more important to the team right now? Winning or Felix's development? I hope it is winning.

 

You act as if this team can't win with Felix. That's nonsense.

 

The Cubs offense has been perfectly fine while getting nothing from CF against RHP. Clearly they can succeed with Pie in CF against RHP. Edmonds doesn't even offer an upgrade in that regard. Early in a season when you are scoring lots of runs and winning lots of games is the absolute easiest time to try and let a kid develop on a contender.

 

This isn't low risk. The risk is that Edmonds hits in the 5th spot, keeps sucking, but keeps playing because the Cubs are absolute failures at realizing when a veteran is done. Jason Kendall kept blowing chunks for months while Soto was destroying the ball, yet the Cubs did nothing. This move could easily cost a game, not to mention delays Pie's development and reduce his trade value.

 

There's no rational support for this move, only nonsensical "proven veteran" conventional wisdom BS.

 

Let's not forget what Pie brings defensively compared to Edmonds. It almost seems to me that the Cubs want a 5 hitter more than anything.

[rawaction]

Look , I hate Edmonds as much as the next guy. I hate the way he played a shallow center field so he could make easy catches look great. I hate the way he would watch his homers. But this is a low risk move. If he sucks, it only cost you $280,000 and you could release him.

 

I do think that the Cubs are hurting Pie's growth, somewhat. But sometimes I think that Felix fails to learn from his mistakes. He still swings at the same junk breaking balls. The bottom line is what is more important to the team right now? Winning or Felix's development? I hope it is winning.

 

You act as if this team can't win with Felix. That's nonsense.

 

The Cubs offense has been perfectly fine while getting nothing from CF against RHP. Clearly they can succeed with Pie in CF against RHP. Edmonds doesn't even offer an upgrade in that regard. Early in a season when you are scoring lots of runs and winning lots of games is the absolute easiest time to try and let a kid develop on a contender.

 

This isn't low risk. The risk is that Edmonds hits in the 5th spot, keeps sucking, but keeps playing because the Cubs are absolute failures at realizing when a veteran is done. Jason Kendall kept blowing chunks for months while Soto was destroying the ball, yet the Cubs did nothing. This move could easily cost a game, not to mention delays Pie's development and reduce his trade value.

 

There's no rational support for this move, only nonsensical "proven veteran" conventional wisdom BS.

 

Let's not forget what Pie brings defensively compared to Edmonds. It almost seems to me that the Cubs want a 5 hitter more than anything.

 

The Cubs continue to have these obsessions based on what batters box a guy stands in and where he has hit in the lineup. We've seen them sign Burnitz and Jock because they were LH with pop enough to either break up Lee/Ramirez or hit behind them. We've seen them overpay for Pierre, because he is an experienced leadoff hitter. We've seen them spend a large part of the offseason obsession over Furcal and Roberts.

[ChiCubsfan0502]

How do you guys feel Edmonds will be received by his new teammates? In particular, Z.

[davearm2]

Look , I hate Edmonds as much as the next guy. I hate the way he played a shallow center field so he could make easy catches look great. I hate the way he would watch his homers. But this is a low risk move. If he sucks, it only cost you $280,000 and you could release him.

 

I do think that the Cubs are hurting Pie's growth, somewhat. But sometimes I think that Felix fails to learn from his mistakes. He still swings at the same junk breaking balls. The bottom line is what is more important to the team right now? Winning or Felix's development? I hope it is winning.

 

You act as if this team can't win with Felix. That's nonsense.

 

The Cubs offense has been perfectly fine while getting nothing from CF against RHP. Clearly they can succeed with Pie in CF against RHP. Edmonds doesn't even offer an upgrade in that regard. Early in a season when you are scoring lots of runs and winning lots of games is the absolute easiest time to try and let a kid develop on a contender.

 

This isn't low risk. The risk is that Edmonds hits in the 5th spot, keeps sucking, but keeps playing because the Cubs are absolute failures at realizing when a veteran is done. Jason Kendall kept blowing chunks for months while Soto was destroying the ball, yet the Cubs did nothing. This move could easily cost a game, not to mention delays Pie's development and reduce his trade value.

 

There's no rational support for this move, only nonsensical "proven veteran" conventional wisdom BS.

This is really quite misguided.

 

In just one year with Lou at the helm, the number of underperforming veteran bats that have been launched is already pretty long:

Barrett

Izturis

Craig Monroe

Jacque Jones

Floyd (more injury than performance)

Bowen

I put Kendall in this category too. He arrived in July, and by September he was already sharing time with Soto (Soto had 11 starts in Sept, Kendall 17; PAs were split 52 to 70). He lasted the year but there was no thought of re-signing him. That's hardly "doing nothing".

 

I bet you'd have a real hard time finding other teams in the league that cycled through that number of veteran hitters in just one season. There would certainly be a few, but only a few.

 

If Edmonds doesn't produce, then he'll get the boot too. Lou's been very consistent about that, with both the young guys and the old guys.

Edited May 13, 2008 by davearm2

[jersey cubs fan]

Look , I hate Edmonds as much as the next guy. I hate the way he played a shallow center field so he could make easy catches look great. I hate the way he would watch his homers. But this is a low risk move. If he sucks, it only cost you $280,000 and you could release him.

 

I do think that the Cubs are hurting Pie's growth, somewhat. But sometimes I think that Felix fails to learn from his mistakes. He still swings at the same junk breaking balls. The bottom line is what is more important to the team right now? Winning or Felix's development? I hope it is winning.

 

You act as if this team can't win with Felix. That's nonsense.

 

 

Thats not it at all. I just think that Cubs have put winning a World Series in front of developing Felix. I don't know if this is the right move or not. I not sure if I like the idea of signing Edmonds. Felix needs ABs and Lou is not going to play him then only way he will get ABs is in the minors.

 

Winning a World Series should always be in front of developing Felix. But signing Jim Edmonds has nothing to do with winning the World Series or developing Felix.

[jersey cubs fan]

If Edmonds doesn't produce, then he'll get the boot too. Lou's been very consistent about that, with both the young guys and the old guys.

 

Theriot stunk last year but kept his job with no threat of losing it to a younger more talented player. Reed Johnson has been allowed to fail repeatedly against RHP without a legit threat of Pie getting more time. Jason Marquis has been allowed to fail repeatedly, same with Howry and Eyre. And Jason Kendall was abysmal for months until the odd practice of September callups actually forced them to even think about replacing him. The fact that they are even considering Edmonds is more evidence that bad veterans are given priority over kids who need to produce.

 

 

I cannot think of a better time to live through the struggles of a young kid than when you are scoring lots of runs and winning games, getting production from everybody else. Add in the fact that the kid plays better defense than any other option and will produce similar numbers against RHP than any reasonable replacement and you have a perfect situation for living with the struggles.

[mlarner]

No. Just no.

[The Voice of Reason]

I can see it now.

 

The Cubs sign Edmonds who in turn opens a new establishment on the North Side called

 

The Unnecessary Dive Bar.

[nickynick]

Look , I hate Edmonds as much as the next guy. I hate the way he played a shallow center field so he could make easy catches look great. I hate the way he would watch his homers. But this is a low risk move. If he sucks, it only cost you $280,000 and you could release him.

 

I do think that the Cubs are hurting Pie's growth, somewhat. But sometimes I think that Felix fails to learn from his mistakes. He still swings at the same junk breaking balls. The bottom line is what is more important to the team right now? Winning or Felix's development? I hope it is winning.

 

You act as if this team can't win with Felix. That's nonsense.

 

 

Thats not it at all. I just think that Cubs have put winning a World Series in front of developing Felix. I don't know if this is the right move or not. I not sure if I like the idea of signing Edmonds. Felix needs ABs and Lou is not going to play him then only way he will get ABs is in the minors.

 

Winning a World Series should always be in front of developing Felix. But signing Jim Edmonds has nothing to do with winning the World Series or developing Felix.

I don't think that Edmonds helps you win a World Series, but that may be the rational that the Cubs are thinking. If Edmonds sucks, Lou will not play him. Lou has already shown that if you don't perform you are on the bench.

[nickynick]

I can see it now.

 

The Cubs sign Edmonds who in turn opens a new establishment on the North Side called

 

The Unnecessary Dive Bar.

Awesome.

[Roast]

How do you guys feel Edmonds will be received by his new teammates? In particular, Z.

I have no idea why Edmonds would want to play here. Between the problems there have been between him and Z and the hell the fans are sure to give him if he signs...

[gflore34]

I can see it now.

 

The Cubs sign Edmonds who in turn opens a new establishment on the North Side called

 

The Unnecessary Dive Bar.

 

Featuring the Meat-Normous sandwhich.

[jersey cubs fan]

I don't think that Edmonds helps you win a World Series, but that may be the rational that the Cubs are thinking. If Edmonds sucks, Lou will not play him. Lou has already shown that if you don't perform you are on the bench.

 

Clearly that's the rationale, and that's the problem. The Cubs think you can't win with a guy like Felix around (dumb) and that having a guy like Edmonds improves your chances of winning (dumb). Furthermore, Lou has shown he will cut bait with some veterans, but there's no telling how much mediocrity he's willing to accept before he decides a player isn't performing. 3 months of a 700 OPS from Edmonds would be detrimental to the team. But as long as he's the only LH 5th hitter with a little pop on the team, he will get the benefit of the doubt.

 

Lou has also shown that first impressions are most important. All it will take is one good game or one big hit out of Edmonds early in his stint and that will prolong his stay by months. Considering he'll be hitting in the middle of a potent lineup, he's going to have multiple chances to come through. One well-timed hit is all it will take to convince some people it was the right move.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Funny how fans can be sabermetrically right and wrong at the same time.

 

Pie is the best option for Cubs center field right now, there are no bones about it. But a bad 103 PAs this season does not mean Jim Edmonds is completely worthless. Even with a decline from last year's numbers, he is probably going to be better than Reed Johnson vs. righties. I don't see how you could project otherwise.

 

This move shatters any delusions we had that Pie might be given a fair shot, but to be honest those were shattered for me already. I hope we trade him for something good.

[Roast]

 

This move shatters any delusions we had that Pie might be given a fair shot, but to be honest those were shattered for me already. I hope we trade him for something good.

This is the part that really bothers most of us though. We don't need edmonds. Sit Johnson against righties, play Pie. This offense - even with Johnson sucking it up against righties and pie getting off to a slow start (that he is now clearly coming out of in the rare chances he gets to play) we have scored the most runs in baseball. This is the PERFECT time to throw pie out there and let him play. He'll go through his rough spots, sure, but our offense is more than good enough to put up with one young guy while he develops.

[Jehrico]

Funny how fans can be sabermetrically right and wrong at the same time.

 

Pie is the best option for Cubs center field right now, there are no bones about it. But a bad 103 PAs this season does not mean Jim Edmonds is completely worthless. Even with a decline from last year's numbers, he is probably going to be better than Reed Johnson vs. righties. I don't see how you could project otherwise.

 

This move shatters any delusions we had that Pie might be given a fair shot, but to be honest those were shattered for me already. I hope we trade him for something good.

No, but the previous seasons numbers added to those do. Edmonds may be better than Reed against righties, but Pie would be even better than him against righties. Defensively, we'd be taking a big hit with him out there over either other option. I'd take Johnsons defense and offense against righties over Edmonds defense and offense against righties. The last thing we need is a weaker CFer causing Soriano to try to cover more ground. If Soriano gets hurt again, we'll be looking at outfields with both Reed Johnson and Edmonds out there, which would be a complete and total disaster.

[CUBZ99]

If Edmonds doesn't produce, then he'll get the boot too. Lou's been very consistent about that, with both the young guys and the old guys.

 

Theriot stunk last year but kept his job with no threat of losing it to a younger more talented player. Reed Johnson has been allowed to fail repeatedly against RHP without a legit threat of Pie getting more time. Jason Marquis has been allowed to fail repeatedly, same with Howry and Eyre. And Jason Kendall was abysmal for months until the odd practice of September callups actually forced them to even think about replacing him. The fact that they are even considering Edmonds is more evidence that bad veterans are given priority over kids who need to produce.

 

 

I cannot think of a better time to live through the struggles of a young kid than when you are scoring lots of runs and winning games, getting production from everybody else. Add in the fact that the kid plays better defense than any other option and will produce similar numbers against RHP than any reasonable replacement and you have a perfect situation for living with the struggles.

 

I agree with not signing Edmonds for many of the reasons you stated. But I disagree with you regarding Lou's inability to get rid of unproductive players.

 

1. I know it is only the first month + of the season, but personally I'm glad the Cubs gave Theriot the job at SS. The Cubs have been getting way above average production from SS for the first month and a half of the season. I'm not saying it will last, but Theriot has been remarkably consistent so far this year.

 

2. In Marquis' case, Lou did bench Marquis for the playoffs and went with the more unexperienced Hill during the playoffs. So far this year we have heard about Marquis pitching for his spot in the rotation.

 

3. Eyre didn't pitch in a big game situation for a period of a month or so last year, until he finally got things turned around. Howry is the same this year. Lets not forget that Hendry is paying those guys $3-4MM to pitch out of the bullpen. I'm certain that Hendry has more control over who is on the roster than Lou does.

 

One thing that bothers me about the Edmonds rumors is that this must signal that Lou doesn't think that Pie is going to put it together. It has been talked about for weeks that Pie may be in Lou's doghouse, and that Lou has been working personally with Pie on his swing. Hopefully Pie hasn't lost all his trade value if this is the case.

[AlwaysaCub]

How do you guys feel Edmonds will be received by his new teammates? In particular, Z.

I have no idea why Edmonds would want to play here. Between the problems there have been between him and Z and the hell the fans are sure to give him if he signs...

 

1. Winning cures all wounds.

 

2. The players on the Cubs team that finally does the unthinkable will be elevated at least to the level of the 85 Bears and probably higher given the stakes. This is desirable.

 

3 If I could get a 1 million salary to be a platoon player on this team, one that seems to be going places, I would certainly take it

 

But in the larger picture I agree. I'm going to have a hell of a time rooting for Jim Edmonds playing center for the Cubs.