Jim Edmonds Signs With Cubs, Pie to AAA

[TruffleShuffle]

If Felix got on base at a better clip and used his speed to help the club, this would be a non issue.

 

i know, felix not being able to get on base has crippled the offense to only have the highest OBP and most runs scored in baseball.

[Rob]

For what it's worth... I've smoothed out his BABIP for the last few seasons.

 

2004 - .296/.414/.643

2005 - .261/.383/.540

2006 - .273/.364/.491

2007 - .275/.346/.432

2008 - .263/.340/.330

 

what does "smoothed out " mean here?

 

Adjusted his line to reflect his expected BABIP based on his LD%, as opposed to his actual BABIP.

 

Basically, I'm just trying to remove luck from the equation.

[CuseCubFan69]

Edmonds is the missing piece of the puzzle. He's won wherever he has played except for when he was losing there. Dudes a gamer and will give up his body to win, you have to appreciate that.

 

In all honesty....I'd rather sign Bonds and throw him in left and Fuku to CF and Soriano to right. If you're going to go after a vet, at least get one that is productive in some area of the game.

[TruffleShuffle]

For what it's worth... I've smoothed out his BABIP for the last few seasons.

 

2004 - .296/.414/.643

2005 - .261/.383/.540

2006 - .273/.364/.491

2007 - .275/.346/.432

2008 - .263/.340/.330

 

what does "smoothed out " mean here?

 

Adjusted his line to reflect his expected BABIP based on his LD%, as opposed to his actual BABIP.

 

Basically, I'm just trying to remove luck from the equation.

 

right but you can't assume that everyone with the same LD% is going to end up with the same BABIP. Ichiro is very fast, gets out of the batter's box very quickly and has excellent bat control. jim edmonds is old and slow, and has an upper-cuttish type swing (which would tend to slow one's speed out of the batter's box). his babip has declined for five years in a row, while his LD% has gone:

 

2004: 21.2 %

2005: 18.7 %

2006: 20.5 %

2007: 19.5 %

2008: 22.4 %

 

chances are the guy is just a low BABIP guy at this stage of his career.

[Schwarber Fan]

If anyone's interested, here's a clip from a STL radio show about Edmonds coming to the Cubs:

http://www.insidestl.com/morningafter/audio/051308-4Edmonds.mp3

[don_kessinger_was_good]

Is the "Pie-Should-Play" wailing-and-gnashing-of-teeth crowd the same group still crying over the Cubs not playing future Hall of Famer Matt Murton? Just curious.

 

Send Pie to Iowa so he can improve his bat confidence and rebuild his trade value (if that's the route the Cubs choose). Give Edmonds a month to show whether he can contribute or not; if he can, then move him in July somewhere else. If he can't, then release him.

 

What's the big freaking deal? I don't think trading one 600 OPS guy for another in the everyday lineup really matters much one way or the other. Pie is the future, terrific. He ain't the present. Let's move on to the next issue.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Even projecting a decline from last season, he's better against righties than Reed Johnson offensively and a glance at defensive metrics has them both slightly below average defensively in center.

 

It's horrible and idiotic that they aren't giving Pie the everyday job, but Edmonds isn't worthless as some would like to imply based on the fact that he's old and has a bad 100 PAs.

Edited May 13, 2008 by Hairyducked Idiot

[VanceJergins]

Is there any word if any other teams might possibly claim him?

[CubinNY]

Is the "Pie-Should-Play" wailing-and-gnashing-of-teeth crowd the same group still crying over the Cubs not playing future Hall of Famer Matt Murton? Just curious.

 

Send Pie to Iowa so he can improve his bat confidence and rebuild his trade value (if that's the route the Cubs choose). Give Edmonds a month to show whether he can contribute or not; if he can, then move him in July somewhere else. If he can't, then release him.

 

What's the big freaking deal? I don't think trading one 600 OPS guy for another in the everyday lineup really matters much one way or the other. Pie is the future, terrific. He ain't the present. Let's move on to the next issue.

Bat confidence?

[Soul]

his better years. He's declining sharply in that area too. He's basically done.

 

Even projecting a decline from last season, he's better against righties than Reed Johnson offensively and a glance at defensive metrics has them both slightly below average defensively in center.

 

It's horrible and idiotic that they aren't giving Pie the everyday job, but Edmonds isn't worthless as some would like to imply based on the fact that he's old and has a bad 100 PAs.

 

I think that was me who said that, not truffle. just to avoid confusion.

[David]

Is the "Pie-Should-Play" wailing-and-gnashing-of-teeth crowd the same group still crying over the Cubs not playing future Hall of Famer Matt Murton? Just curious.

 

Send Pie to Iowa so he can improve his bat confidence and rebuild his trade value (if that's the route the Cubs choose). Give Edmonds a month to show whether he can contribute or not; if he can, then move him in July somewhere else. If he can't, then release him.

 

What's the big freaking deal? I don't think trading one 600 OPS guy for another in the everyday lineup really matters much one way or the other. Pie is the future, terrific. He ain't the present. Let's move on to the next issue.

 

 

And Edmonds is the past.

 

 

Seriously, if Edmonds isn't going to hit much better than Pie (if at all, and he certainly isn't going to field better), what in the hell is the point of playing the guy who doesn't have any upside vs the guy who does?

 

Not to mention the fact that one of them is your 23 year old prized prospect and the other is a 38 year old who the fans hate and is being picked up off the scrap heap.

[VanceJergins]

Is the "Pie-Should-Play" wailing-and-gnashing-of-teeth crowd the same group still crying over the Cubs not playing future Hall of Famer Matt Murton? Just curious.

 

Send Pie to Iowa so he can improve his bat confidence and rebuild his trade value (if that's the route the Cubs choose). Give Edmonds a month to show whether he can contribute or not; if he can, then move him in July somewhere else. If he can't, then release him.

 

What's the big freaking deal? I don't think trading one 600 OPS guy for another in the everyday lineup really matters much one way or the other. Pie is the future, terrific. He ain't the present. Let's move on to the next issue.

 

Who the hell is saying that Murton should be playing? He should have played more last year, but now that we have Soriano and Fukudome, no one is claiming he should be playing.

 

And Pie is the present, in that, he is presently better than Edmonds in every way.

[TruffleShuffle]

Is the "Pie-Should-Play" wailing-and-gnashing-of-teeth crowd the same group still crying over the Cubs not playing future Hall of Famer Matt Murton? Just curious.

 

yeah, also the same idiots who were saying that rich hill and geovany soto could be productive major league players if the cubs would give them a chance.

[bukie]

So, the final piece of the puzzle. The only thing this year's team was missing was a scapegoat for all the fan hatred. And now they'll have it with a declined CF who was both offensively and defensively deficient enough to be cut by the worst offensive team in the league. And a player that has publicly blasted the Cubs and Wrigley in the past.

 

Yes, that's exactly what the Cubs need.

[abuck1220]

Is the "Pie-Should-Play" wailing-and-gnashing-of-teeth crowd the same group still crying over the Cubs not playing future Hall of Famer Matt Murton? Just curious.

 

Send Pie to Iowa so he can improve his bat confidence and rebuild his trade value (if that's the route the Cubs choose). Give Edmonds a month to show whether he can contribute or not; if he can, then move him in July somewhere else. If he can't, then release him.

 

What's the big freaking deal? I don't think trading one 600 OPS guy for another in the everyday lineup really matters much one way or the other. Pie is the future, terrific. He ain't the present. Let's move on to the next issue.

 

geez, you're obnoxious.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

PECOTA projection vs. righties (I don't know if this was field-adjusted or not for Edmonds playing in PETCO):

 

Pie

vs RHP .303 .363 .537

 

Edmonds

vs RHP .247 .342 .456

 

Johnson

vs RHP .256 .314 .369

 

 

I hate the Cubs so much for making Johnson the regular CFer. I hate them so very, very much.

[TruffleShuffle]

pecota is wrong.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

pecota is wrong.

 

Probably. Could you be more specific?

[bukie]

PECOTA projection vs. righties (I don't know if this was field-adjusted or not for Edmonds playing in PETCO):

 

Pie

vs RHP .303 .363 .537

 

Edmonds

vs RHP .247 .342 .456

 

Johnson

vs RHP .256 .314 .369

 

 

I hate the Cubs so much for making Johnson the regular CFer. I hate them so very, very much.

That Johnson prediction, thus far, is dead-on accurate. Pie's, also, is accurate since Lou and Perry worked with him. Edmonds is well below his to this point, mostly in SLG.

[Rob]

For what it's worth... I've smoothed out his BABIP for the last few seasons.

 

2004 - .296/.414/.643

2005 - .261/.383/.540

2006 - .273/.364/.491

2007 - .275/.346/.432

2008 - .263/.340/.330

 

what does "smoothed out " mean here?

 

Adjusted his line to reflect his expected BABIP based on his LD%, as opposed to his actual BABIP.

 

Basically, I'm just trying to remove luck from the equation.

 

right but you can't assume that everyone with the same LD% is going to end up with the same BABIP. Ichiro is very fast, gets out of the batter's box very quickly and has excellent bat control. jim edmonds is old and slow, and has an upper-cuttish type swing (which would tend to slow one's speed out of the batter's box). his babip has declined for five years in a row, while his LD% has gone:

 

2004: 21.2 %

2005: 18.7 %

2006: 20.5 %

2007: 19.5 %

2008: 22.4 %

 

chances are the guy is just a low BABIP guy at this stage of his career.

 

At the same time, that only applies when Edmonds hits the ball on the ground... which he does at a rate of about half the time that Ichiro does. If you want to adjust his numbers down a tick on account of his declining speed, I wont put up a fight. But to act like it even comes close to approximating his actual drop in production would be foolish. Any way you want to cut it, he's been hurt pretty badly by luck the last three years. You can argue as to the extent of it, but you can't argue that his perceived decline has been greatly exacerbated by the bloops just not falling in as often as they should.

[SouthSideRyan]

Is the "Pie-Should-Play" wailing-and-gnashing-of-teeth crowd the same group still crying over the Cubs not playing future Hall of Famer Matt Murton? Just curious.

 

Send Pie to Iowa so he can improve his bat confidence and rebuild his trade value (if that's the route the Cubs choose). Give Edmonds a month to show whether he can contribute or not; if he can, then move him in July somewhere else. If he can't, then release him.

 

What's the big freaking deal? I don't think trading one 600 OPS guy for another in the everyday lineup really matters much one way or the other. Pie is the future, terrific. He ain't the present. Let's move on to the next issue.

 

BECAUSE 38 YEAR OLDS AREN'T ON THE UPSWING OF THEIR CAREERS LIKE 22 YEAR OLDS???

[SouthSideRyan]

Is the "Pie-Should-Play" wailing-and-gnashing-of-teeth crowd the same group still crying over the Cubs not playing future Hall of Famer Matt Murton? Just curious.

 

yeah, also the same idiots who were saying that rich hill and geovany soto could be productive major league players if the cubs would give them a chance.

 

AND WHERE'S RICH HILL NOW HUH???? IF GEO COULD PLAY HE'D BE HITTING HIGHER THAN 6TH, BUT NO ALL THE GENIUS STATBOYS AROUND HERE KNOW BETTER THAN LOU *SNORT*

[TruffleShuffle]

pecota is wrong.

 

Probably. Could you be more specific?

 

well, anyone who has seen the first month of the year could tell you that pie doesn't have the ability to put up a .900 OPS against major league RHP at this stage of his career; he needs better discipline and pitch recognition skills for that to happen. and, as i said a page back, PECOTA doesn't have the ability to determine when a guy is going to age well, or fall off a cliff in terms of production. edmonds EqA trend the past 4 years:

 

2004: .341

2005: .307

2006: .285

2007: .260

 

now the PECOTA projections are .263 and .271 in 2008 and 2009, respectively. how am i supposed to take those seriously when he's been shaving anywhere from 22 to 35 points off his EqA in the past few years? in my opinion, PECOTA really can't tell us anything about jim edmonds. he's well past his prime, he can't run well, his bat is much slower, he doesn't have much power any more.

[biittner77]

Is the "Pie-Should-Play" wailing-and-gnashing-of-teeth crowd the same group still crying over the Cubs not playing future Hall of Famer Matt Murton? Just curious.

 

Send Pie to Iowa so he can improve his bat confidence and rebuild his trade value (if that's the route the Cubs choose). Give Edmonds a month to show whether he can contribute or not; if he can, then move him in July somewhere else. If he can't, then release him.

 

What's the big freaking deal? I don't think trading one 600 OPS guy for another in the everyday lineup really matters much one way or the other. Pie is the future, terrific. He ain't the present. Let's move on to the next issue.

Bat confidence?

 

Yeah, it's on the utility belt next to the Bat rope

[CuseCubFan69]

Is the "Pie-Should-Play" wailing-and-gnashing-of-teeth crowd the same group still crying over the Cubs not playing future Hall of Famer Matt Murton? Just curious.

 

Send Pie to Iowa so he can improve his bat confidence and rebuild his trade value (if that's the route the Cubs choose). Give Edmonds a month to show whether he can contribute or not; if he can, then move him in July somewhere else. If he can't, then release him.

 

What's the big freaking deal? I don't think trading one 600 OPS guy for another in the everyday lineup really matters much one way or the other. Pie is the future, terrific. He ain't the present. Let's move on to the next issue.

Bat confidence?

 

Yeah, it's on the utility belt next to the Bat rope

 

Holy diving center fielder, the Cubs are in trouble.

 

I say Iowa is going to be really good if the Cubs can send down Gally too.