Jim Edmonds Signs With Cubs, Pie to AAA

[biittner77]

Maybe the Cubs are sending Pie to AAA to learn how to pitch. That way he can be a loogy in 2 years since they already have 2 LH pitchers in the rotation.

 

If the Cubs are going to sign a vet. LH hitter to play CF, why not just bring Jock Jones? In a strict platoon he's probably better than Edmonds.

[jersey cubs fan]

2. In Marquis' case, Lou did bench Marquis for the playoffs and went with the more unexperienced Hill during the playoffs. So far this year we have heard about Marquis pitching for his spot in the rotation.

 

Is that supposed to be commendable? He went with a very good pitcher over a terrible pitcher. Kind of a no-brainer. Then this year Lou kept letting Marquis pitch on a regular rotation while bumping Hill then demoting him.

I never said Lou refuses to take youth over veterans. But the younger player has to significantly outperform that vet for it to happen.

 

Lou may not be as bad or dumb as some managers on this topic, it doesn't mean it's not completely asinine to think about giving Jim Edmonds playing time over Felix Pie.

[inari]

I think you guys are wrong in assuming that the fans in general would have the same reaction as the fans here. Edmonds would get a huge standing ovation in his first at bat, I guarantee it.

[mul21]

How do you guys feel Edmonds will be received by his new teammates? In particular, Z.

I have no idea why Edmonds would want to play here. Between the problems there have been between him and Z and the hell the fans are sure to give him if he signs...

 

Sounds like he's a little bitter about how his departure from St. Louis was handled. Not that he has a problem with being traded, but the way he was treated by people in the Cards organization on his way out more than anything and wants to try to rub their noses in it by playing for their hated rivals. No confirmation of that, just rumblings I've heard down this way.

[davearm2]

If Edmonds doesn't produce, then he'll get the boot too. Lou's been very consistent about that, with both the young guys and the old guys.

 

Theriot stunk last year but kept his job with no threat of losing it to a younger more talented player. Reed Johnson has been allowed to fail repeatedly against RHP without a legit threat of Pie getting more time. Jason Marquis has been allowed to fail repeatedly, same with Howry and Eyre. And Jason Kendall was abysmal for months until the odd practice of September callups actually forced them to even think about replacing him. The fact that they are even considering Edmonds is more evidence that bad veterans are given priority over kids who need to produce.

 

 

I cannot think of a better time to live through the struggles of a young kid than when you are scoring lots of runs and winning games, getting production from everybody else. Add in the fact that the kid plays better defense than any other option and will produce similar numbers against RHP than any reasonable replacement and you have a perfect situation for living with the struggles.

I don't disagree with the second paragraph there.

 

What I disagree with is the notion that once he's signed, the Cubs will be stuck with Edmonds for the duration. That's just not true and ignores many examples that show otherwise. Lou's not just going to sit on his hands for 400 ABs of 240/300/350 from Edmonds, or anyone else -- including Pie, obviously.

 

Your argument seems to be that Lou should, in fact, tolerate 400 ABs of 240/300/350 from Pie. Well it's not gonna happen.

[mul21]

I don't disagree with the second paragraph there.

 

What I disagree with is the notion that once he's signed, the Cubs will be stuck with Edmonds for the duration. That's just not true and ignores many examples that show otherwise. Lou's not just going to sit on his hands for 400 ABs of 240/300/350 from Edmonds, or anyone else -- including Pie, obviously.

 

Your argument seems to be that Lou should, in fact, tolerate 400 ABs of 240/300/350 from Pie. Well it's not gonna happen.

 

The argument is that Felix has consistenly shown he needs 1-2 months to adjust to each new level and then starts hitting. He's not being given an opportunity to make the necessary adjustments and if you look at the ABs he's had the last 2-3 weeks, his OBP and avg. have been far better than they were in the first 3 weeks.

[hardcorecubfan]

i've always liked edmonds.

 

 

that is a long needle there sulley.

 

Edmunds would be a great bench signing in late July.

[VanceJergins]

 

I would love to see how you concluded that Edmonds is better than Pie right now.

 

 

Pie strikes out 1/3 of his AB's.

 

The point is Pie needs to play everyday, he wont be able to up here.

 

So there was nothing logical that brought you to the conclusion that Edmonds is better than Pie...That's pretty much what I assumed, thnx.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Maybe the Cubs are sending Pie to AAA to learn how to pitch. That way he can be a loogy in 2 years since they already have 2 LH pitchers in the rotation.

 

If the Cubs are going to sign a vet. LH hitter to play CF, why not just bring Jock Jones? In a strict platoon he's probably better than Edmonds.

 

Even is the CUbs were interested, Jacque wouldnt be. He wasnt very happy with his Cubs experience and was glad to leave. Im surprised the Pads havnt grabbed him up. Could he be any worse than Gerut or whoever they hell they have patrolling center? Besides, Im sure hed love to stick it to the Wrigley fans.

[The Voice of Reason]

i've always liked edmonds.

 

He's no Fidel Castro.

[JGalt73]

From a Rob Neyer chat:

Ben (Chicago): Rob, the Cubs have already sent Hill down and are now talking about sending Pie down if they sign Edmonds. This doesn't make any sense to me. Shouldn't they stick with Pie a little longer?

 

SportsNation Rob Neyer: (12:34 PM ET ) Yeah, especially since it's not clear that Edmonds is any better than Pie. Seems to me that when you're in first place -- as the Cubs are -- with the best run differential in the league, you can afford to be patient with a young player who's struggling.

[rawaction]

From a Rob Neyer chat:

Ben (Chicago): Rob, the Cubs have already sent Hill down and are now talking about sending Pie down if they sign Edmonds. This doesn't make any sense to me. Shouldn't they stick with Pie a little longer?

 

SportsNation Rob Neyer: (12:34 PM ET ) Yeah, especially since it's not clear that Edmonds is any better than Pie. Seems to me that when you're in first place -- as the Cubs are -- with the best run differential in the league, you can afford to be patient with a young player who's struggling.

 

 

I cannot think of a better time to live through the struggles of a young kid than when you are scoring lots of runs and winning games, getting production from everybody else. Add in the fact that the kid plays better defense than any other option and will produce similar numbers against RHP than any reasonable replacement and you have a perfect situation for living with the struggles.

[Vinestal]

Ugh, this is the worst idea I have ever seen. If this happens I hope Wriggley shakes from the massive amount of boos every time he comes to the plate. I think most Cub fans hate Edmonds, even if he were in his prime most of us would have a hard time with this move. At this point in his career he's a waste of a roster spot, why on earth does Jim think this is a good idea? I cant understand this.

[jersey cubs fan]

I think you guys are wrong in assuming that the fans in general would have the same reaction as the fans here. Edmonds would get a huge standing ovation in his first at bat, I guarantee it.

 

Edmonds is not Nomar or Fukudome. He's not going to be a celebrated new player. Cubs fans at Wrigley hated Jim Edmonds. This isn't a NSBB thing. He will have, at best, a mixed reception. My guess is it won't be emphatic one way or the other.

[soapy]

Look , I hate Edmonds as much as the next guy. I hate the way he played a shallow center field so he could make easy catches look great. I hate the way he would watch his homers. But this is a low risk move. If he sucks, it only cost you $280,000 and you could release him.

 

I do think that the Cubs are hurting Pie's growth, somewhat. But sometimes I think that Felix fails to learn from his mistakes. He still swings at the same junk breaking balls. The bottom line is what is more important to the team right now? Winning or Felix's development? I hope it is winning.

 

You act as if this team can't win with Felix. That's nonsense.

 

 

Thats not it at all. I just think that Cubs have put winning a World Series in front of developing Felix. I don't know if this is the right move or not. I not sure if I like the idea of signing Edmonds. Felix needs ABs and Lou is not going to play him then only way he will get ABs is in the minors.

sorry to pick on you but i see this all the time and it drives me insane. saying you are putting a world series infront of developing a player is a bs cop-out. these things are not mutually exclusive and its incredibly inaccurate to say they are, particulary with the way the Cubs offense has produced. they can have Felix in CF against most/all RHP and still wait for him to adjust while still winning.

 

saying felix needs to go to Iowa to get at-bats is equally insane in my opinion. he's done absolutely nothing but completely dominate PCL pitching the last two years. it's time for him to get a valid oppurtunity at the ML level to see if he can/will adjust, just like he did at every other level.

 

Jim Edmonds may come in and put up better numbers than Felix against RHP in the short term (I doubt it), but it's still a poor strategy if the overall goal is to win championships (with an "s").

[rocket]

How do you guys feel Edmonds will be received by his new teammates? In particular, Z.

I have no idea why Edmonds would want to play here. Between the problems there have been between him and Z and the hell the fans are sure to give him if he signs...

 

i doubt a z vs. edmonds issue would come up, honestly.

[davearm2]

I don't disagree with the second paragraph there.

 

What I disagree with is the notion that once he's signed, the Cubs will be stuck with Edmonds for the duration. That's just not true and ignores many examples that show otherwise. Lou's not just going to sit on his hands for 400 ABs of 240/300/350 from Edmonds, or anyone else -- including Pie, obviously.

 

Your argument seems to be that Lou should, in fact, tolerate 400 ABs of 240/300/350 from Pie. Well it's not gonna happen.

 

The argument is that Felix has consistenly shown he needs 1-2 months to adjust to each new level and then starts hitting. He's not being given an opportunity to make the necessary adjustments and if you look at the ABs he's had the last 2-3 weeks, his OBP and avg. have been far better than they were in the first 3 weeks.

You know this is a really common theme around here, how Pie has been so improved of late, and statistically there's some merit to it.

 

But while hitting 143/200/143 through April 21st, Pie had a very unlucky BABIP of .235.

While hitting 286/350/400 since then, he's had a very lucky BABIP of .391.

 

There's much more going on here than simply saying, Pie's been far better in the last 2-3 weeks. Something on the order of half of the improvement he's shown is attributable to luck.

 

Take two singles away to the latter statline to neutralize the luck factor, and you've got 229/300/343 on a .304 BABIP. That's still an improvement, yet still terrible.

[nickynick]

Look , I hate Edmonds as much as the next guy. I hate the way he played a shallow center field so he could make easy catches look great. I hate the way he would watch his homers. But this is a low risk move. If he sucks, it only cost you $280,000 and you could release him.

 

I do think that the Cubs are hurting Pie's growth, somewhat. But sometimes I think that Felix fails to learn from his mistakes. He still swings at the same junk breaking balls. The bottom line is what is more important to the team right now? Winning or Felix's development? I hope it is winning.

 

You act as if this team can't win with Felix. That's nonsense.

 

 

Thats not it at all. I just think that Cubs have put winning a World Series in front of developing Felix. I don't know if this is the right move or not. I not sure if I like the idea of signing Edmonds. Felix needs ABs and Lou is not going to play him then only way he will get ABs is in the minors.

sorry to pick on you but i see this all the time and it drives me insane. saying you are putting a world series infront of developing a player is a bs cop-out. these things are not mutually exclusive and its incredibly inaccurate to say they are, particulary with the way the Cubs offense has produced. they can have Felix in CF against most/all RHP and still wait for him to adjust while still winning.

 

saying felix needs to go to Iowa to get at-bats is equally insane in my opinion. he's done absolutely nothing but completely dominate PCL pitching the last two years. it's time for him to get a valid oppurtunity at the ML level to see if he can/will adjust, just like he did at every other level.

 

Jim Edmonds may come in and put up better numbers than Felix against RHP in the short term (I doubt it), but it's still a poor strategy if the overall goal is to win championships (with an "s").

If you looked at my other posts I said that has to be what the team is thinking not what I'm thinking. If Lou isn't going to play Felix, then where can he get ABs? He is not getting them now. Felix is in Lou's doghouse for some reason. Maybe it is because he never takes a walk, maybe it is because he swings at breaking balls in the dirt every time. But for Felix to get ABs everyday it is going to have to be in AAA because Lou is not playing him everyday.

[WindyCity]

This move would not be so despised if Jimmy had never been a Redbird. Its obvious that Lou is unwilling at this time to give Pie a chance in a straight platoon with Johnson, so Felix is likely better off tearing up AAA and forcing the Cubs to bring him back. Until then, the Cubs really need a lefty to platoon with Reed as he is not so good against RHP. If they catch fire with Edmonds great, if not he'll be cheap to cut ties with and hopefully Pie's #s in AAA will make it obvious that he needs more of a chance to show what he can do.

[BRASKYS SCOTCH]

I fear it's much more likely that Edmonds will be our Jason Kendall v2.0 as opposed to mere speculation. Hopefully there are similar results in a prospect pushing him out of the picture later in the year.

 

So you mean we'll let a promising young player sit in AAA and tear it up there while we trade/sign for a overrated declining veteran? Does that mean Pie will be as good as Soto next year? :lol:

 

I believe it's the same model used in the Underpants Gnomes South Park episode:

 

Step 1, collect underpants

Step 2, ...

Step 3, big profit!

[soapy]

This move would not be so despised if Jimmy had never been a Redbird. Its obvious that Lou is unwilling at this time to give Pie a chance in a straight platoon with Johnson, so Felix is likely better off tearing up AAA and forcing the Cubs to bring him back. Until then, the Cubs really need a lefty to platoon with Reed as he is not so good against RHP. If they catch fire with Edmonds great, if not he'll be cheap to cut ties with and hopefully Pie's #s in AAA will make it obvious that he needs more of a chance to show what he can do.

 

Being a formal Cardinal doesn't mean anything to me. He's old and declining (rapidly). That's the problem. I couldn't possibly care less about what team(s) he's played for.

 

At some point Hendry needs to force Felix on Lou. I don't think he'll continue to let Reed get dominated by RHP, so don't give him the option of having someone like Edmonds at his disposal. Force him to go to Pie eventually.

[TruffleShuffle]

Funny how fans can be sabermetrically right and wrong at the same time.

 

Pie is the best option for Cubs center field right now, there are no bones about it. But a bad 103 PAs this season does not mean Jim Edmonds is completely worthless. Even with a decline from last year's numbers, he is probably going to be better than Reed Johnson vs. righties. I don't see how you could project otherwise.

 

i don't see how one can assume this at all. not every player follows a slow aging curve; some guys get old in about a week. i'm sure PECOTA has no idea who is going to age gracefully and who is going to fall apart like a cheap suit. edmonds was way worse in 2007 than 2006 and in the first month of 2008, he was way worse than he was in 2007. so it's increasingly likely that the injuries (concussions especially) and old age have rendered jim edmonds a terrible baseball player at this point.

[TruffleShuffle]

If you looked at my other posts I said that has to be what the team is thinking not what I'm thinking. If Lou isn't going to play Felix, then where can he get ABs? He is not getting them now. Felix is in Lou's doghouse for some reason. Maybe it is because he never takes a walk, maybe it is because he swings at breaking balls in the dirt every time. But for Felix to get ABs everyday it is going to have to be in AAA because Lou is not playing him everyday.

 

well my response to that is, if you have a manager who cannot allow his players to make adjustments to big league competition, then you need to find a new manager. unless said manager is doing everything else perfectly, and let's just say that lou is falling short of that.

[Post Count Padder]

The Chicago Sun-Times reports that the Cubs will pursue Jim Edmonds as soon as he clears waivers on Wednesday.

 

Sources tell the paper that Edmonds has told his agent that the Cubs are the first team he wants to talk with. Edmonds would likely replace Felix Pie on the team's roster, and share center field duties with Reed Johnson.

Source: Chicago Sun-Times

Sounds like this is getting done. :evil:

[Roast]

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