Jim Edmonds Signs With Cubs, Pie to AAA

[UMFan83]

I think you guys are wrong in assuming that the fans in general would have the same reaction as the fans here. Edmonds would get a huge standing ovation in his first at bat, I guarantee it.

 

Edmonds is not Nomar or Fukudome. He's not going to be a celebrated new player. Cubs fans at Wrigley hated Jim Edmonds. This isn't a NSBB thing. He will have, at best, a mixed reception. My guess is it won't be emphatic one way or the other.

 

Exactly. Anyone who has been to a Cubs Cardinals game knows how much he was hated.

Edited May 13, 2008 by UMFan83

[TruffleShuffle]

that's awesome, we started the year with a highly-regarded prospect in CF, and two months in we'll be platooning two past-their-prime players who can't hit or field particularly well.

[Roast]

that's awesome, we started the year with a highly-regarded prospect in CF, and two months in we'll be platooning two past-their-prime players who can't hit or field particularly well.

Pfft. They're white and they make diving catches. What more can you ask for!?

[inari]

I think you guys are wrong in assuming that the fans in general would have the same reaction as the fans here. Edmonds would get a huge standing ovation in his first at bat, I guarantee it.

 

Edmonds is not Nomar or Fukudome. He's not going to be a celebrated new player. Cubs fans at Wrigley hated Jim Edmonds. This isn't a NSBB thing. He will have, at best, a mixed reception. My guess is it won't be emphatic one way or the other.

 

Exactly. Anyone who has been to a Cubs Cardinals game knows it

 

I've been to plenty, I just think you guys are underestimating the casual fans' ability to forgive and forget.

 

Also, Edmonds clears waivers tomorrow? So he could be a Cub by tomorrow? Barf.

[jersey cubs fan]

I think you guys are wrong in assuming that the fans in general would have the same reaction as the fans here. Edmonds would get a huge standing ovation in his first at bat, I guarantee it.

 

Edmonds is not Nomar or Fukudome. He's not going to be a celebrated new player. Cubs fans at Wrigley hated Jim Edmonds. This isn't a NSBB thing. He will have, at best, a mixed reception. My guess is it won't be emphatic one way or the other.

 

Exactly. Anyone who has been to a Cubs Cardinals game knows it

 

I've been to plenty, I just think you guys are underestimating the casual fans' ability to forgive and forget.

 

Also, Edmonds clears waivers tomorrow? So he could be a Cub by tomorrow? Barf.

 

Forgiving and forgetting happens with 2 players:

 

Those who are still very good.

Those who were hated only because they were on a rival.

 

Jim Edmonds sucks, has sucked for a long time, and was not just hated because of being a Cardinal, but because he was a flopping pretty boy.

[Outshined_One]

It's been talked about ad nauseam, but here's my take on the Edmonds thing a bit more in-depth...

 

It's not that Edmonds was a former Cardinal who drove me nuts for his showboating and penchant for hitting back-breaking HRs against us. Cripes, if we were getting that Jim Edmonds, I'd welcome the guy with open arms.

 

The problem is, we're not getting that Jim Edmonds. We're getting a Jim Edmonds that couldn't cut it on a team that's dead last in runs scored, OBP, and OPS. If he still was a halfway decent defender in CF, the Padres would have kept him around and used him accordingly since they have a spacious CF out there. However, the Padres didn't do that. He was replaced by Jody Gerut. Remember him? Remember how terrible Gerut was for the Cubs?

 

Edmonds is toast. Injuries have caught up with him in the worst way. He no longer has the bat speed to be used as a top pinch hitter off the bench. He no longer has the defensive capabilities to be used as a defensive replacement in CF. Pie may have been struggling with irregular ABs and Reed Johnson might be horrific against RHPs (thanks for that Lou!), but how can Edmonds be considered an upgrade over Pie at this point in either's career?

 

I don't think team chemistry is an issue with Edmonds. Old wounds heal and the guys on this team should understand the fact that they need to work together. They're adults; they can handle a former rival coming onto their team.

 

I just don't get this organization's line of thinking. Whenever a guy with only a bit of experience is struggling, he gets hung out to dry and thrown in the garbage. Thank heavens Soto hasn't had a prolonged slump yet, otherwise we might have a Blanco/K. Hill battery trotting out there every day. However, when guys like Ted Lilly, Jason Marquis, and Reed Johnson struggle, the Cubs just shrug their shoulders and let them work through it, for better or worse. If Edmonds comes in and looks like trash, I foresee the Cubs taking the latter approach with him, to the detriment of the team and the development of Felix Pie.

 

This move just strikes me as enormously stupid. If Hendry wants better production against RHPs out of his CF, he should just tell Piniella to stop trotting Reed Johnson out there while Felix Pie rots on the bench.

[javy knows my name]

HORSE #@*!

[UMFan83]

I don't know if anyone posted this already but I'm reading some comments on Gateway Redbirds:

 

FWIW, Jason Stark said on Mike and Mile this morning that it's done deal once Jimmy clears the waivers.

 

McKernan basically says the text messages from Edmonds make him think it is definitely happening.

[SouthSideRyan]

I love how people keep talking about Edmonds' numbers this year, yet when people were talking about Theriot's hot start a week or two ago it was all about the sample size.

 

Just as the talk about Theriot was based largely on his #s last year(and his minor league track record), Edmonds didn't hit last year, and is clearly VERY OLD.

[cubbyvirus00]

WHY?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!

[JGalt73]

Dave Van Dyck had it first, but sources confirmed to me that the Cubs are working to sign Jim Edmonds. One told me "at worst, it's a bad couple of weeks that buys some time for [Felix] Pie to go to Iowa and salvage himself." ...

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

God I'm so going to hate Jim Edmonds on this team...

hatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehate it

[inari]

Dave Van Dyck had it first, but sources confirmed to me that the Cubs are working to sign Jim Edmonds. One told me "at worst, it's a bad couple of weeks that buys some time for [Felix] Pie to go to Iowa and salvage himself." ...

 

Meh..

[SouthSideRyan]

Maybe the Cubs are sending Pie to AAA to learn how to pitch. That way he can be a loogy in 2 years since they already have 2 LH pitchers in the rotation.

 

If the Cubs are going to sign a vet. LH hitter to play CF, why not just bring Jock Jones? In a strict platoon he's probably better than Edmonds.

 

Better in the field too.

[jersey cubs fan]

I see a few outcomes if this happens:

 

Best case scenario - Edmonds regains his form, Pie goes to AAA and shines again, Cubs go deep into postseason, then let Edmonds walk after the season. Chance of happening, 0.01%.

 

2nd best case scenario - Edmonds bombs, Pie goes to AAA and shines, Cubs don't lose any ground with Edmonds around, then callup Pie and let him play through his major league struggles. 35%

 

Troubling scenario - Edmonds is mediocre, Pie does okay in AAA, Cubs feel like sticking with Edmonds and his proven veteran status. 30%

 

Worst case scenario - Edmonds sucks, Pie is struggles in AAA, Cubs lose faith in Pie and wind up trading him for much less than they could have gotten a year ago. They realize they have no CF options and decide to rush Colvin to platoon with Johnson, and put him in the same scenario they had Pie and Murton before. 20%

 

Disaster scenario - Edmonds signs an extension. 14.99%.

 

While the best case scenarios result in positive outcomes, I don't see them as most likely to happen. Considering what's he done for more than a year now, it's hard to imagine what Edmonds would have to do to make the Cubs give up on him. All it takes is a positive early impression for Lou to keep giving a guy undeserved chances. One big game or series could give Edmonds a 3-4 month rope to hang himself with.

[Soul]

I don't know if anyone posted this already but I'm reading some comments on Gateway Redbirds:

 

FWIW, Jason Stark said on Mike and Mile this morning that it's done deal once Jimmy clears the waivers.

 

McKernan basically says the text messages from Edmonds make him think it is definitely happening.

 

Someone dig up those Edmonds quotes. You know, the ones where he calls Wrigley the worst ballpark in the majors to play at.

 

I'm tryin' Hendry, I really am. But this one sucks. He's a freaking pretty boy who flops to get on Sportscenter, calls Wrigley horrible, and is way past his productive prime.

 

Get ready to hold your nose and cheer for Jim Edmonds. Unbelievable. We're 8 over .500 now, WTF? We need to do this?

[VanceJergins]

I really hope the casual fans boo him for being a hated rival and the more knowledgeable fans boo him for being old and crappy. I want this guy boo'ed out of the city.

[JGalt73]

Here are Felix Pie AB by game for the last month... he has seen regular (>=3) AB in 8 of 27 games. He has had 0 AB in 10 games, and only 1 AB in 7 games. When exactly was Pie given a chance by Hendry/Lou et al?

 

AB

Apr. 13 0

Apr. 15 4

Apr. 16 0

Apr. 17 0

Apr. 18 0

Apr. 19 1

Apr. 20 1

Apr. 21 1

Apr. 22 5

Apr. 23 1

Apr. 24 3

Apr. 25 0

Apr. 26 1

Apr. 27 0

Apr. 29 1

Apr. 30 4

May. 1 1

May. 2 2

May. 3 2

May. 4 0

May. 5 3

May. 6 4

May. 7 4

May. 9 0

May. 10 0

May. 11 3

May. 12 0

[inari]

Just to clarify, Edmonds can be signed tomorrow, right?

[Outshined_One]

2nd best case scenario - Edmonds bombs, Pie goes to AAA and shines, Cubs don't lose any ground with Edmonds around, then callup Pie and bench him in favor of Reed Johnson after Pie goes 0-12 two weeks later, resulting in the Cubs bemoaning their lack of a left handed bat, causing them to pursue yet another washed up left handed bat in CF. 35%

 

Fixed, imo.

[Rob]

For what it's worth... I've smoothed out his BABIP for the last few seasons.

 

2004 - .296/.414/.643

2005 - .261/.383/.540

2006 - .273/.364/.491

2007 - .275/.346/.432

2008 - .263/.340/.330

 

Yes, Jim Edmonds is certainly on the decline. But there are three important things to note.

 

1.) That decline is much more a loss of power than BA and OBP.

 

2.) 2004 and 2005 were spent in Busch 2. 2006 and 2007 were spent in Busch 3, which hurts flyball hitters a bit more than Busch 2 did. And 2008 has been spent in PETCO, which is hell for flyball hitters.

 

3.) Edmonds is an extreme flyball hitter.

 

With the move to Wrigley just before the winds typically start blowing out, it's not inconceivable that he might replicate his 2006 line from here on out.

[Soul]

Just to clarify, Edmonds can be signed tomorrow, right?

 

If he clears waivers tomorrow, yeah.

[1480]

Look , I hate Edmonds as much as the next guy. I hate the way he played a shallow center field so he could make easy catches look great. I hate the way he would watch his homers. But this is a low risk move. If he sucks, it only cost you $280,000 and you could release him.

 

I do think that the Cubs are hurting Pie's growth, somewhat. But sometimes I think that Felix fails to learn from his mistakes. He still swings at the same junk breaking balls. The bottom line is what is more important to the team right now? Winning or Felix's development? I hope it is winning.

 

You act as if this team can't win with Felix. That's nonsense.

 

 

Thats not it at all. I just think that Cubs have put winning a World Series in front of developing Felix. I don't know if this is the right move or not. I not sure if I like the idea of signing Edmonds. Felix needs ABs and Lou is not going to play him then only way he will get ABs is in the minors.

sorry to pick on you but i see this all the time and it drives me insane. saying you are putting a world series infront of developing a player is a bs cop-out. these things are not mutually exclusive and its incredibly inaccurate to say they are, particulary with the way the Cubs offense has produced. they can have Felix in CF against most/all RHP and still wait for him to adjust while still winning.

 

saying felix needs to go to Iowa to get at-bats is equally insane in my opinion. he's done absolutely nothing but completely dominate PCL pitching the last two years. it's time for him to get a valid oppurtunity at the ML level to see if he can/will adjust, just like he did at every other level.

 

Jim Edmonds may come in and put up better numbers than Felix against RHP in the short term (I doubt it), but it's still a poor strategy if the overall goal is to win championships (with an "s").

If you looked at my other posts I said that has to be what the team is thinking not what I'm thinking. If Lou isn't going to play Felix, then where can he get ABs? He is not getting them now. Felix is in Lou's doghouse for some reason. Maybe it is because he never takes a walk, maybe it is because he swings at breaking balls in the dirt every time. But for Felix to get ABs everyday it is going to have to be in AAA because Lou is not playing him everyday.

 

 

:amen:

If Felix got on base at a better clip and used his speed to help the club, this would be a non issue. I think Edmonds can succeed in this situation. Felix will get his confidence back with regular at bats, Edmonds will hit to his strength and is playing in a smaller park. Soto rather then Greene/Bard will be protecting him and Johnson will be the late game defensive sub when Edmonds starts. The biggest benefit is Fukudome going into the 2 spot, his natural spot in MLB. Not a move that will win the WS, but one that can overcome the inevitable Ramirez D/L stint and keep the cubs as front runners till they can get a quality SP at the trade deadline.

[TruffleShuffle]

For what it's worth... I've smoothed out his BABIP for the last few seasons.

 

2004 - .296/.414/.643

2005 - .261/.383/.540

2006 - .273/.364/.491

2007 - .275/.346/.432

2008 - .263/.340/.330

 

what does "smoothed out " mean here?

[Soul]

For what it's worth... I've smoothed out his BABIP for the last few seasons.

 

2004 - .296/.414/.643

2005 - .261/.383/.540

2006 - .273/.364/.491

2007 - .275/.346/.432

2008 - .263/.340/.330

 

Yes, Jim Edmonds is certainly on the decline. But there are three important things to note.

 

1.) That decline is much more a loss of power than BA and OBP.

 

2.) 2004 and 2005 were spent in Busch 2. 2006 and 2007 were spent in Busch 3, which hurts flyball hitters a bit more than Busch 2 did. And 2008 has been spent in PETCO, which is hell for flyball hitters.

 

3.) Edmonds is an extreme flyball hitter.

 

With the move to Wrigley just before the winds typically start blowing out, it's not inconceivable that he might replicate his 2006 line from here on out.

 

Rob, his OBP will likely settle in the low .300's if his trend continues. That's 100 points down from his better years. He's declining sharply in that area too. He's basically done.