Reds (Martinez) vs Cubs (Taillon): 6/1/25, 1:20pm

[Tryptamine]

Just now, Hot Sauce said:

I agree. Fans will always focus on what a GM doesn’t do rather than what he has done. 

Sorry, I'm not anointing him as a pretty good GM until he actually makes the playoffs. 

[CubUgly]

1 hour ago, Geographyhater8888 said:

 

 

KB had a lengthy injury history and had been trending downwards ever season since 2017 at that.

KB from 2015-2017 was one of the top 3 players in baseball.  Injuries started happening, and the beaning happened, and I honestly think he lost his love for the game.  I love the memories, but the Cubs made the right move, hell the Giants pretty much came to the same conclusion and both were right.   Pains me to say honestly but it's pretty obvious.

[Bobson Dugnutt]

59 minutes ago, PeanutPunch33 said:

Jed is a pretty damn good GM.

He avoided Bryant, Baez, Rizzo extensions which all turned out to be great decisions, even if many in the fanbase and media hated him for it.  +PCA, Busch, Brown, Palencia, Tucker on clever trades.  

The Seiya and Imanaga acquisitions look like home runs too.  

He (Jed) has earned an extension 

I completely forgot we got Palencia for Chafin. That’s a nice one.

[Geographyhater8888]

1 hour ago, CubUgly said:

KB from 2015-2017 was one of the top 3 players in baseball.  Injuries started happening, and the beaning happened, and I honestly think he lost his love for the game.  I love the memories, but the Cubs made the right move, hell the Giants pretty much came to the same conclusion and both were right.   Pains me to say honestly but it's pretty obvious.

I wouldn’t say top 3 but definitely in the top 10 discussion. If Heyward comes anywhere near playing up to his contract and KB extends his peak a few years then who knows if there’s another World Series in them. Add Russel to that list for non baseball reasons.

Edited June 2, 2025 by Geographyhater8888

[Brian707]

3 hours ago, chibears55 said:

This is the Cubs,  it goes from day to day to being put on 10 day IL 🙄

[Soul]

Jed has yet to GM the team to the playoffs.  He has no claim to goodness until he does.

[Hot Sauce]

2 hours ago, Tryptamine said:

Sorry, I'm not anointing him as a pretty good GM until he actually makes the playoffs. 

He’s put playoff caliber teams on the field for three consecutive seasons now. “Pretty good” is an entirely fair assessment.

[BKHoo]

De La Cruz lost his sister today? That sux so much. 

[Hot Sauce]

1 hour ago, Soul said:

Jed has yet to GM the team to the playoffs.  He has no claim to goodness until he does.

Actually he did. He hasn’t been GM since November 2020.

[Hot Sauce]

I have done my share of criticizing Hoyer, but it’s wild to me that anyone can watch this Cubs team, built entirely under his watch, and say that he hasn’t done “pretty good.” That isn't even a glowing endorsement.

Which team in the NL Central would you guys want to swap rosters with? 

[Soul]

It’s June 1.

[Jason Ross]

28 minutes ago, Hot Sauce said:

I have done my share of criticizing Hoyer, but it’s wild to me that anyone can watch this Cubs team, built entirely under his watch, and say that he hasn’t done “pretty good.” That isn't even a glowing endorsement.

Which team in the NL Central would you guys want to swap rosters with? 

There aren't many in the NL I'd switch organizationally or what the Cubs have top-to-bottom right now. There's plenty of things to do; resigning Kyle Tucker, trading for some arms, and extending PCA feel high on the priority list between now and November (with different priorities at different times). He's done a great job of surrounding himself with smart people; Dan Kantrovitz, Craig Breslow, Tyler Zombro, Craig Counsel, Carter Hawkins, just to name a few. The MiLB system is great. They've drafted well. 

I agree, Hoyer's done a pretty good job this year! Sure, I wish the SP was better right now, but most teams have some "issue". The Dodgers have a SP issue themselves; Roki has been horrible, Snell has been banged up, and they're on multiple BP games. The Phillies still cannot field a baseball, There are tons of examples. 

Some people do need to give some flowers when need be. We're well past anything being bad on Jed. The biggest obstacles Jed can deal with moving forward are how he handles the deadline. It would seem today that the team Jed built is capable of being a playoff team; they might not get there for many factors, but I don't think a lot of them would really be on Jed. Like if Tucker goes down with a torn ACL, not really anything you can do to prep or backup plan that, you know?

[Soul]

Im really excited about this team and what is hopefully to come but I’m not giving a job evaluation 1/3rd through the job.

[Tryptamine]

44 minutes ago, Hot Sauce said:

I have done my share of criticizing Hoyer, but it’s wild to me that anyone can watch this Cubs team, built entirely under his watch, and say that he hasn’t done “pretty good.” That isn't even a glowing endorsement.

Which team in the NL Central would you guys want to swap rosters with? 

Which team has even close to the resources he does?

[Dfan25]

As of now Skubal is listed on the mlb app as the starter Friday against the Cubs . I thought he would go Thursday on normal rest .

Damn that’s a tough break . They will get Gore on Wednesday and Skubal Friday . If the Phillies keep Wheeler on 4 days rest looks like the Cubs will avoid him . He goes Tuesday and Sunday . 

[JHBulls]

It’s quite awesome to hear that Roki has sucked and the Dodgers haven’t signed a minimum wage ace because that would just be annoying. But then again, with 15 pitchers on the IL and signing even more pitchers, they are still plenty annoying. 

[Jason Ross]

4 hours ago, Soul said:

Im really excited about this team and what is hopefully to come but I’m not giving a job evaluation 1/3rd through the job.

I would say that is a fundamental misunderstanding of Jed Hoyer's job, though. Its probably fair to say 75% of whay he does happens between November and OD, with the vast majority of other duties happening in July. We are 2 months  in and evaluating what Hoyer is responsible for; MLB roster, org depth, hiring...its pretty easy. For what he is directly responsible for, hes far past the "one-third" pole for the season in terms of job duties.

This is a good roster, its pretty undebateable at this stage that its a good roster. Its a lineup that is incredibly strong, the BP is better than we probably gave it credit for and the SP depth is being tested. Prospects acquired directly by Hoyer over the years are contributing positively to it. In terms of hiring, the Cubs have done a solid job surrounding the org with talented minds and the offseason acquisitions of Tucker, Boyd, and most others are variying shades of good-to-great. We can certainly state that Hoyer probably left the team a player short in the offseason, a fair and legitimate criticism, but the deadline will give him a good chance to rectify that. I realize the SP is certainly a bit of a concern as is, but every team has a speed bump and a weakness, even the almighty Dodgers. Its not a uniquely Cubs or Hoyer issue.

The deadline still has to happen and a poor deadline where the Cubs punt and refuse to make a few additions would certainly be bad, but thats probably the last bit of work Hoyer is capable of doing. That and the draft. We dont need another 4 months to determine the rest. 

I know people want to put it as "playoffs or bust" but we can evaluate that pretty easily now. The Cubs are certainly on that trajectory. What would realistically stop it now? Probably a combination of the worst kinds of injuries to your best players, unforseen downturn in playing quality for a very extended time, and a lack of action in July. Only one of those three are really a Jed thing at this stage. That isnt trying to get cocky and coast the rest of the year, just that the things that can derail the year are largely things Hoyer probably isnt responsible for at this stage. If Tucker and PCA both tear their ACL in a collision Tuesday, Im not sure there's a realistic fix for that, as an example. Is that a "poor Job Jed?". Probably not. Nor is that something you can plan for. Losing two-top-10 fWAR hitters is not something one can realistically have a backup plan for. Thats an extreme example, but Im just trying to highlight that many things between now and October are beyond what a VP of Ops can do, plan for, etc and most of what we can grade or will grade him on is done and dusted. 

[jersey cubs fan]

2 hours ago, Jason Ross said:

I would say that is a fundamental misunderstanding of Jed Hoyer's job, though. Its probably fair to say 75% of whay he does happens between November and OD, with the vast majority of other duties happening in July. We are 2 months  in and evaluating what Hoyer is responsible for; MLB roster, org depth, hiring...its pretty easy. For what he is directly responsible for, hes far past the "one-third" pole for the season in terms of job duties.

This is a good roster, its pretty undebateable at this stage that its a good roster. Its a lineup that is incredibly strong, the BP is better than we probably gave it credit for and the SP depth is being tested. Prospects acquired directly by Hoyer over the years are contributing positively to it. In terms of hiring, the Cubs have done a solid job surrounding the org with talented minds and the offseason acquisitions of Tucker, Boyd, and most others are variying shades of good-to-great. We can certainly state that Hoyer probably left the team a player short in the offseason, a fair and legitimate criticism, but the deadline will give him a good chance to rectify that. I realize the SP is certainly a bit of a concern as is, but every team has a speed bump and a weakness, even the almighty Dodgers. Its not a uniquely Cubs or Hoyer issue.

The deadline still has to happen and a poor deadline where the Cubs punt and refuse to make a few additions would certainly be bad, but thats probably the last bit of work Hoyer is capable of doing. That and the draft. We dont need another 4 months to determine the rest. 

I know people want to put it as "playoffs or bust" but we can evaluate that pretty easily now. The Cubs are certainly on that trajectory. What would realistically stop it now? Probably a combination of the worst kinds of injuries to your best players, unforseen downturn in playing quality for a very extended time, and a lack of action in July. Only one of those three are really a Jed thing at this stage. That isnt trying to get cocky and coast the rest of the year, just that the things that can derail the year are largely things Hoyer probably isnt responsible for at this stage. If Tucker and PCA both tear their ACL in a collision Tuesday, Im not sure there's a realistic fix for that, as an example. Is that a "poor Job Jed?". Probably not. Nor is that something you can plan for. Losing two-top-10 fWAR hitters is not something one can realistically have a backup plan for. Thats an extreme example, but Im just trying to highlight that many things between now and October are beyond what a VP of Ops can do, plan for, etc and most of what we can grade or will grade him on is done and dusted. 

This isn’t the first year on the job. He’s done an awful job putting a quality team on the field in the seasons prior to this one. 

there’s no fundamental misunderstanding of his job. We know what he’s been up to. And before this year it has not been good. 

[Jason Ross]

45 minutes ago, jersey cubs fan said:

This isn’t the first year on the job. He’s done an awful job putting a quality team on the field in the seasons prior to this one. 

there’s no fundamental misunderstanding of his job. We know what he’s been up to. And before this year it has not been good. 

The fundamental misunderstanding is claiming the Cubs are 1/3rd though the season and we cannot evaluate Jed Hoyer's 2025 performance. I think we can easily do just that and MLB games are not the schedule/timeline in which Hoyer's job should be evaluated within. 

I'm going to go ahead and disagree, however, with the general post as well. That isn't to say Jed Hoyer is perfect (I'll get to complaints), but generally speaking, he's been a pretty fine VP of Baseball Ops and showing signs of being pretty good. He was hired into a situation in which ownership essentially forced a rebuild. Hoyer was the architect of this MiLB system, acquiring multiple-indutry-top-50 prospects (eventually) in those trades. He's hired Kantrovitz who has gone on to draft many other quality prospects, including multiple (specifically Horton and Wiggins) fans threw fits over at the draft time, both have been excellent to-date (though more time is needed to see the overall development and outcome, it's not a win...but it's trending that way). We have seen fans (and I'll admit, I was in this group initially) complain about signing Swanson over the other available SS and all that has been has been...an absolute steal to date. They've made plenty of savvy signings like Imanaga, Boyd, Kelly, Suzuki and others. They've begun to develop pitching and players not-drafted in the first-round, common complaints of the past, 

I recognize that the playoffs have not happened yet, and I understand that the end goal is winning baseball games and making the playoffs. Hoyer has been imperfect. They've relied on some sketchy early-season bullpens that may have cost them games they would eventually need, moves such as Mancni, Hosmer, and Barnhart were probably bad moves from the get-go. The Kimbrel trade didn't really work out at all (for anyone). There has been some suggestion that the Cubs tried to do Kimbrel a solid and keep him in Chicago, but even beyond that, it didnt work out. And maybe at times he's been too cautious, but at the same time, he went out and made a big move for Tucker, which is anything but cautious - so I think he's shown that isn't always the case. It seems like Hoyer may be a bit worried about long-term contracts as well. We can find fault, this isn't a Hoyer high-five-fest, here, and I'm willing to be a fair observer. I do think there's a line where ownership hampers his job, but I've tried to keep complaints to Hoyer and Hoyer alone here.

But "awful job"? C'mon, man. The Cubs have 83 wins in back-to-back years. Underwhelming to a degree? Maybe! I still think with the way the organization was coming out of July 2021 that the expectation that the Cubs went from, essentially, "trading most of their starting line up away" to "MLB playoff team" in 18-months seems pretty rushed as an expectation, but if 83 wins over the last two years is "awful" we have different distinctions of what "awful" is. For me, awful is the Los Angeles Angels, The Cubs were average. And this year, the Cubs are pretty-damn-good. They're also in a prime situation to be good for a while, though ownership will have to play their part, too, but that's in no small-part due to Jed Hoyer. 

 

Hoyer is an imperfect and admittedly, impersonal, VP of Baseball Ops. He does not give you the warm fuzzies, he doesn't seem exciting, and it took four years for him to put a roster out that was truly good. I don't necessarily fault him entirely for that, however, with 2024 being the first "miss" I'll actually credit him for (as stated, 18-months after having to deal Darvish, Bryant, Baez, Rizzo and on the precipice of losing Contreras, I don't think it's fair to suggest a playoff-or-bust mentality). But even if you want to blame him for 2023, than his "misses" were 83 win teams and his "hit" is the 2025 roster so far (tied for the highest win% in the NL and 2nd in MLB), which has been one of the best in baseball. We'll see what the deadline brings, but he's ben aggressive two years running in that regards, I'd expect more additions. So despite him being imperfect and impersonal, he's probably pretty good at his job all things considered. He doesn't appear to be an Andrew Friedman but there aren't many of them. If he can be the 7th-12th (or so) best VP of Baseball, the Cubs will be in fine hands. The reality is that once you get past the very best, and ignore the very worst, the middle-ground of Baseball Ops is pretty fluid, and pretty similar. With how analytical teams are, and how much data is run through things, most teams avoid disasters pretty well now a days. The difference between Hoyer and most other VP's is probably far less than people expect.

[CubUgly]

11 hours ago, Geographyhater8888 said:

I wouldn’t say top 3 but definitely in the top 10 discussion. If Heyward comes anywhere near playing up to his contract and KB extends his peak a few years then who knows if there’s another World Series in them. Add Russel to that list for non baseball reasons.

I'd say there's a good argument for top 3 but it's debatable.  I think what happened with the Cubs was several players that one expected to keep developing and getting better did not, they regressed instead.  Bryant was one of those - injuries played a part but when you can't play you can't help the team. 

[NOLA]

13 hours ago, CubUgly said:

13 hours ago, CubUgly said:

KB from 2015-2017 was one of the top 3 players in baseball.  Injuries started happening, and the beaning happened, and I honestly think he lost his love for the game.  I love the memories, but the Cubs made the right move, hell the Giants pretty much came to the same conclusion and both were right.   Pains me to say honestly but it's pretty obvious.

I remember a national baseball writer (Gammons?) saying circa 2019 that one of his wishes for the upcoming season was that KB would love playing baseball again.

Edited June 2, 2025 by NOLA

[CubUgly]

7 minutes ago, NOLA said:

I remember a national baseball writer (Gammons?) saying circa 2019 that one of his wishes for the upcoming season was that KB would love playing baseball again.

Yep, I remember the Covid year he was the only one that seemed to be pushing back on playing, everyone else was gung ho to play. 

[The_Achiever]

3 hours ago, CubUgly said:

Yep, I remember the Covid year he was the only one that seemed to be pushing back on playing, everyone else was gung ho to play. 

I missed that when it happened but damn is that depressing.  Do we think the (maybe not so) little injuries adding up is what killed his love for the game?  

I guess it's also kind of weird that Rizzo is apparently retired now.  I'll forever be grateful for 2016.  

[Andy]

12 hours ago, Dfan25 said:

As of now Skubal is listed on the mlb app as the starter Friday against the Cubs . I thought he would go Thursday on normal rest .

Damn that’s a tough break . They will get Gore on Wednesday and Skubal Friday . If the Phillies keep Wheeler on 4 days rest looks like the Cubs will avoid him . He goes Tuesday and Sunday . 

It makes perfect sense for Detroit to hold Skubal to face us, they'll be favored to beat the White Sox anyway, might as well have him face a good team if they can easily make it happen.

Not that I expect they considered this all that much, but in the extremely unlikely event the Cubs and Tigers end up with the same record and meet in the World Series, I believe HFA comes down to head-to-head record.

[chibears55]

15 hours ago, Soul said:

Jed has yet to GM the team to the playoffs.  He has no claim to goodness until he does.

He was the GM in 2015, 16, 17, 18, 19, and 20 🤷‍♂️