Winter Meetings thread

[CubinNY]

1 minute ago, squally1313 said:

This has been covered before but this isn't a real thing. 

Opening Day 2023 line up/who would be the starter right now for Opening Day 2025

• C - Gomes/Amaya or Kelley
• 1B - Hosmer/Busch
• 2B - Hoerner/Hoerner
• SS - Swanson/Swanson
• 3B - Wisdom/Paredes
• LF - Happ/Happ
• CF - Bellinger/PCA
• RF - Mastrobuoni/Bellinger
• DH - Mancini/Suzuki

That's 5 new starters since the beginning of last year (four if you don't want to count Suzuki and his injury). And they basically kept the first four in the line up (ie the good players) and replaced the bottom 5 (the not good players).

I want Tucker too and I'm letting myself get annoyed they can't just push it across the finish line. But this whole 'we'll run it back again' thing just isn't the reality. 

Ok Mr. Pedantic - They cannot throw out a lineup of Aymay, Busch, Hoerner, Swanson, Happ, PCA, rotating DH and Suzuki, regularly and expect different results.  

[Jason Ross]

11 minutes ago, Stratos said:

Just a note that I didn't say the Astros wanted all 2 or 3 guys as mentioned.  My point was those guys are valuable to us too.  Point of the trade should be that we're better from it and same with Astros and we might not get there in a deal.

I think any trade that the Cubs complete will make them believe that by the end of the offseason, they will be better. We should not need to worry about it. The Cubs aren't shooting from the hip here and hoping it magically works - they'll have some sort of a plan. Whether it's that they think Shaw can handle 3rd, or that they're going to turn themselves to grab a SP with the prospects they saved...

The belief will be that a Tucker trade makes them better by OD.

[LBiittner]

1 hour ago, squally1313 said:

The equivalent is probably something like Shaw, Ballesteros, Birdsell, and Rojas? 

I'd do that for 26 yearold crochet everyday and not look back. 

[LBiittner]

17 minutes ago, 1908_Cubs said:

That's probably on the low end. It depends on how you view Teel. There's plenty in the industry who think he's a borderline top-20 guy, and others (like Jarret Seidler) who think he's more of a top-50 guy. I think if you see Teel like Seidler, that probably fits. 

If you see him more like a top-20 guy, then I think Shaw/Smith/Wiggins/Long might fit., 

More proof of boston breslow having bigger brass balls compared to chicago pewter ornaments 

[squally1313]

13 minutes ago, CubinNY said:

Ok Mr. Pedantic - They cannot throw out a lineup of Aymay, Busch, Hoerner, Swanson, Happ, PCA, rotating DH and Suzuki, regularly and expect different results.  

The Cubs were third in offensive fWAR and 5th in wRC from the day they traded for Paredes until the end of the season. 

Again: they should get Tucker, and/or other good hitters. Big market team, less money for PTR, dongs are fun, etc etc etc. But there's certainly an argument for better overall results than what we've seen in the past (due to, among other things, not running out the same lineup that they have the past few years). 

[Jason Ross]

1 minute ago, LBiittner said:

More proof of boston breslow having bigger brass balls compared to chicago pewter ornaments 

Maybe. We'll see - there's a decent chance in the next two days the Cubs ship out two starting players, and some prospects, to shuffle things around for the second best player on the market. That'd be pretty ballsy to me.

[LBiittner]

1 minute ago, 1908_Cubs said:

Maybe. We'll see - there's a decent chance in the next two days the Cubs ship out two starting players, and some prospects, to shuffle things around for the second best player on the market. That'd be pretty ballsy to me.

"IF's" don't win championships.

I'll believe in jed "IF" he man's up. And I'll admit my underestimating of ballsy jed.

 

[Rcal10]

26 minutes ago, CubinNY said:

Ok Mr. Pedantic - They cannot throw out a lineup of Aymay, Busch, Hoerner, Swanson, Happ, PCA, rotating DH and Suzuki, regularly and expect different results.  

Is am not suggesting they bring them all back, but from July to the end of the season the Cubs were 44-33. That was basically around the time they had all the players they can’t bring back in the every day line up. That record over the entire year peojectd to over 90 wins. I do think they can bring all those guys back, improve the rotation, the pen and the bench and win. Again, not saying j want to do that. I want Tucker. But if they did come back this would still be a good team. They don’t even need different results then what they had playing together. Just keep playing .571 ball. 92-70 would be good.

Edited December 12, 2024 by Rcal10

[Jason Ross]

1 minute ago, LBiittner said:

"IF's" don't win championships.

I'll believe in jed "IF" he man's up. And I'll admit my underestimating of ballsy jed.

 

That's fair. I'm not giving credit to him for getting Tucker, yet. But at the same time, I think Hoyer isn't acting within the same personal limitations he's had in the past...so I'm going to give him some time to cook here before I decide Breslow has balls and Hoyer doesn't. 

[Stratos]

40 minutes ago, CubinNY said:

you're talking about cost not value. Whoever he gets traded to will assume the costs. 

Whomever he gets traded to will assume his production as well.  Every team cares about both.

[LBiittner]

Edited December 12, 2024 by LBiittner

[Bertz]

Breslow basically took over a team that was at the same point in the cycle as the Cubs.  Breslow didn't have to get his hands dirty on a Boston rebuild because it was nearly done when he arrived.  Giving him credit for not operating the 2025 Red Sox like Jed (and Breslow!) operated the 2022 Cubs is BADLY missing the forest for the trees.

[BigbadB]

36 minutes ago, 1908_Cubs said:

That's fair. I'm not giving credit to him for getting Tucker, yet. But at the same time, I think Hoyer isn't acting within the same personal limitations he's had in the past...so I'm going to give him some time to cook here before I decide Breslow has balls and Hoyer doesn't. 

Wouldn't you think that the Cubs would have to beat Boston's offer moreso than match, just because the perception of the Cubs getting the better end of a deal from their cross town rivals would be a bad look in a sea of bad looks the White Sox already have? In that case, you can't blame Jed for not wanting to put together a package better than what Breslow did.

[KCCub]

28 minutes ago, Bertz said:

Breslow basically took over a team that was at the same point in the cycle as the Cubs.  Breslow didn't have to get his hands dirty on a Boston rebuild because it was nearly done when he arrived.  Giving him credit for not operating the 2025 Red Sox like Jed (and Breslow!) operated the 2022 Cubs is BADLY missing the forest for the trees.

Yep, Bloom did the dirty work there and took A LOT of horsefeathers for it. 

[Jason Ross]

11 minutes ago, BigbadB said:

Wouldn't you think that the Cubs would have to beat Boston's offer moreso than match, just because the perception of the Cubs getting the better end of a deal from their cross town rivals would be a bad look in a sea of bad looks the White Sox already have? In that case, you can't blame Jed for not wanting to put together a package better than what Breslow did.

Maybe, but I tend to think that some of the crosstown stuff is really just driven by the fans less-so-than-teams. I think if the Cubs had offered a similar package but done so a week ago, before the Red Sox went there, Crochet would be a Cub. I doubt the White Sox would have turned that equivalent package down and thought "man, oh, man, that's a good offer but because Dave Kaplan might say something I better ask for more or just trade him for less to another team!" 

But in the end, I don't blame him for not sending that package. The Cubs don't have three other universal top-10 guys like the Sox do right now, so losing a Shaw hurts a bit more - especially if you're thinking he's going to take over for Parades in a Tucker trade. 

I like Crochet a bunch! And I think for the Sox it made sense - both Sox.

[CubinNY]

5 minutes ago, 1908_Cubs said:

Maybe, but I tend to think that some of the crosstown stuff is really just driven by the fans less-so-than-teams. I think if the Cubs had offered a similar package but done so a week ago, before the Red Sox went there, Crochet would be a Cub. I doubt the White Sox would have turned that equivalent package down and thought "man, oh, man, that's a good offer but because Dave Kaplan might say something I better ask for more or just trade him for less to another team!" 

But in the end, I don't blame him for not sending that package. The Cubs don't have three other universal top-10 guys like the Sox do right now, so losing a Shaw hurts a bit more - especially if you're thinking he's going to take over for Parades in a Tucker trade. 

I like Crochet a bunch! And I think for the Sox it made sense - both Sox.

Agree. I like Teal and wanted the Cubs to trade for him for the last year. 

[PackLandVA]

The Winter Meetings

[CubinNY]

ok, Jed lined up his ducks, now it's time to shoot his shots. 

[jersey cubs fan]

5 minutes ago, CubinNY said:

ok, Jed lined up his ducks, now it's time to shoot his shots. 

[LBiittner]

2 minutes ago, Bertz said:

Breslow basically took over a team that was at the same point in the cycle as the Cubs.  Breslow didn't have to get his hands dirty on a Boston rebuild because it was nearly done when he arrived.  Giving him credit for not operating the 2025 Red Sox like Jed (and Breslow!) operated the 2022 Cubs is BADLY missing the forest for the trees.

2022? I'm talking the crochet deal bungle by jed. Every pundit known to the inter-web had annointed jed as the primary getter of crochet because of the horde (trees) of perceived riches in the minors.(forest). It is a total fail 

 

 

[Bobson Dugnutt]

2 minutes ago, LBiittner said:

2022? I'm talking the crochet deal bungle by jed. Every pundit known to the inter-web had annointed jed as the primary getter of crochet because of the horde (trees) of perceived riches in the minors.(forest). It is a total fail 

 

 

Wasn’t it more like one kid with a twitter account?

[Jason Ross]

Just now, Bobson Dugnutt said:

Wasn’t it more like one kid with a twitter account?

The kid wasn't wrong. Multiple people - our own Mathew Trueblood, as well as more well known beats have picked up the story. There was talks between the Cubs, Mariners and White Sox in regards to that trade. 

[Jason Ross]

8 minutes ago, LBiittner said:

2022? I'm talking the crochet deal bungle by jed. Every pundit known to the inter-web had annointed jed as the primary getter of crochet because of the horde (trees) of perceived riches in the minors.(forest). It is a total fail 

 

 

I don't think Jed "bungled" Crochet, to be fair to him. If you check out Trueblood's account of the events, it eventually came down to the White Sox and Mariners being unable to agree on compensation on their legs of the three-team-trade and the Cubs refusing to pay the transactional difference between the two. The White Sox and Cubs had been unable to find ground and they brought in Seattle because they knew Hoerner was useful in that way. 

As with all trade rumors, they're complicated, and most trades don't happen. I also don't think that equates to a bungle. Sometimes teams get together, other times they don't. Considering the price Crochet went for, I think it's probably okay to say "maybe that wasn't the move".

[Bertz]

8 minutes ago, LBiittner said:

2022? I'm talking the crochet deal bungle by jed. Every pundit known to the inter-web had annointed jed as the primary getter of crochet because of the horde (trees) of perceived riches in the minors.(forest). It is a total fail 

 

 

The team was never going to blow its entire wad on doing both Tucker and Crochet.  And the fact that the Red Sox aren't in on Tucker is a pretty good sign they're not planning to blow their whole farm on two guys either.

[LBiittner]

2 minutes ago, Bobson Dugnutt said:

Wasn’t it more like one kid with a twitter account?

The kid has photos on X from Dallas - he's in convo with jed. Too neat 👌