Winter Meetings thread

[17 Seconds]

12 minutes ago, LBiittner said:

2022? I'm talking the crochet deal bungle by jed. Every pundit known to the inter-web had annointed jed as the primary getter of crochet because of the horde (trees) of perceived riches in the minors.(forest). It is a total fail 

 

 

it's not a failure if they get another impact player in a trade. let's wait and see if they get tucker or someone else.

[Bobson Dugnutt]

Just now, 1908_Cubs said:

The kid wasn't wrong. Multiple people - our own Mathew Trueblood, as well as more well known beats have picked up the story. There was talks between the Cubs, Mariners and White Sox in regards to that trade. 

Sure, but even Trueblood said it wouldn’t have passed his personal standard of reportability, right? Other than Zanolla and that one White Sox guy, was the three team deal being reported?

Not at all saying that talks didn’t happen. I’m sure they did. Another report said the White Sox were talking to as many as ten different teams about a Crochet deal. I’m sure numerous permutations of trades got “close.”

I know Morosi called the Cubs a “viable candidate.” Otherwise, I never got the impression the Cubs were a favorite. To say that every pundit on the internet had the Cubs as the favorite is not true.

Also, yeah, Crochet was a very good starting pitcher last year. He also comes with quite a bit of risk. If Jed wants to use his prospect capital elsewhere, I’m not losing any sleep over it.

[Jason Ross]

2 minutes ago, Bobson Dugnutt said:

Sure, but even Trueblood said it wouldn’t have passed his personal standard of reportability, right? Other than Zanolla and that one White Sox guy, was the three team deal being reported?

Not at all saying that talks didn’t happen. I’m sure they did. Another report said the White Sox were talking to as many as ten different teams about a Crochet deal. I’m sure numerous permutations of trades got “close.”

I know Morosi called the Cubs a “viable candidate.” Otherwise, I never got the impression the Cubs were a favorite. To say that every pundit on the internet had the Cubs as the favorite is not true.

Also, yeah, Crochet was a very good starting pitcher last year. He also comes with quite a bit of risk. If Jed wants to use his prospect capital elsewhere, I’m not losing any sleep over it.

Sure. But I think we have to accept that those talks did happen. Jon Morosi, Bruce Levine, Maddie Lee all mentioned the Cubs had talks with the White Sox about Crochet. Trueblood, multiple White Sox guys (the equivalent of their version of BN) said they had talks including the three-team thing. There's a hierarchy of reporting, and yeah Zanolla probably ran with some lower-tier stuff in terms of "how close" it was. But someone named KatyPerrysBootyHole broke the Quintana trade, so it ain't like a kid having a scoop is the craziest way a Cub-White Sox trade has broken this decade, let alone, ever. Chris Cotillo was Jacob Zonolla once - a kid with a twitter account and some scoops. He's one of the best beats on the Sox out there. Credit to Zonolla as well...he was on the O'Hoppe thing and that was also confirmed by Sharma/Moioney a few times. 

I agree, I do think it's unfair to say every pundit having us as a favorite was wrong. I think the truth resides in the middle. There were real talks between the Cubs and the White Sox. But I think we just a bit of a sneak peak into all of those trade talks that happen that we never hear about. Like I bet there were a few insane trade talks the Cubs were involved in at some very, very conceptual levels this weekend and we never heard a peep. 

I think we agree at the heart of it - I just want to defend the kid a bit for having some real information. Even if it's not information everyone else would run with.

 

[LBiittner]

17 minutes ago, 1908_Cubs said:

I don't think Jed "bungled" Crochet, to be fair to him. If you check out Trueblood's account of the events, it eventually came down to the White Sox and Mariners being unable to agree on compensation on their legs of the three-team-trade and the Cubs refusing to pay the transactional difference between the two. The White Sox and Cubs had been unable to find ground and they brought in Seattle because they knew Hoerner was useful in that way. 

As with all trade rumors, they're complicated, and most trades don't happen. I also don't think that equates to a bungle. Sometimes teams get together, other times they don't. Considering the price Crochet went for, I think it's probably okay to say "maybe that wasn't the move".

I'm not sure why jed was dependant on bringing in another team to sister with the whitesox deal? It's way to complicated in a 3 way. The whitesox were involved in a 3 way at the deadline and to me they drew the the lesser package return. The Dodgers won that deal. 

[LBiittner]

24 minutes ago, Bertz said:

The team was never going to blow its entire wad on doing both Tucker and Crochet.  And the fact that the Red Sox aren't in on Tucker is a pretty good sign they're not planning to blow their whole farm on two guys either.

So far, we are 0 for Crochet.  Tucker  probably depends on the yankers. 

We might end up with our entire farm intact and a lousy offseason.

[LBiittner]

14 minutes ago, 1908_Cubs said:

Sure. But I think we have to accept that those talks did happen. Jon Morosi, Bruce Levine, Maddie Lee all mentioned the Cubs had talks with the White Sox about Crochet. Trueblood, multiple White Sox guys (the equivalent of their version of BN) said they had talks including the three-team thing. There's a hierarchy of reporting, and yeah Zanolla probably ran with some lower-tier stuff in terms of "how close" it was. But someone named KatyPerrysBootyHole broke the Quintana trade, so it ain't like a kid having a scoop is the craziest way a Cub-White Sox trade has broken this decade, let alone, ever. Chris Cotillo was Jacob Zonolla once - a kid with a twitter account and some scoops. He's one of the best beats on the Sox out there. Credit to Zonolla as well...he was on the O'Hoppe thing and that was also confirmed by Sharma/Moioney a few times. 

I agree, I do think it's unfair to say every pundit having us as a favorite was wrong. I think the truth resides in the middle. There were real talks between the Cubs and the White Sox. But I think we just a bit of a sneak peak into all of those trade talks that happen that we never hear about. Like I bet there were a few insane trade talks the Cubs were involved in at some very, very conceptual levels this weekend and we never heard a peep. 

I think we agree at the heart of it - I just want to defend the kid a bit for having some real information. Even if it's not information everyone else would run with.

 

I could read your mention of katy's booty every day lol. A name that will live on infamy 

[Cuzi]

14 minutes ago, LBiittner said:

I'm not sure why jed was dependant on bringing in another team to sister with the whitesox deal? It's way to complicated in a 3 way. The whitesox were involved in a 3 way at the deadline and to me they drew the the lesser package return. The Dodgers won that deal. 

Because he valued trading Hoerner more than trading Shaw.

It's easy to sit back on MLB trade values and play with numbers to say that the Cubs could have just offered X instead of Y, but when the team you are talking to wants Y or bust, it's hard to offer X.

Edited December 12, 2024 by Cuzi

[Bobson Dugnutt]

3 minutes ago, 1908_Cubs said:

Sure. But I think we have to accept that those talks did happen. Jon Morosi, Bruce Levine, Maddie Lee all mentioned the Cubs had talks with the White Sox about Crochet. Trueblood, multiple White Sox guys (the equivalent of their version of BN) said they had talks including the three-team thing. There's a hierarchy of reporting, and yeah Zanolla probably ran with some lower-tier stuff in terms of "how close" it was. But someone named KatyPerrysBootyHole broke the Quintana trade, so it ain't like a kid having a scoop is the craziest way a Cub-White Sox trade has broken this decade, let alone, ever. Chris Cotillo was Jacob Zonolla once - a kid with a twitter account and some scoops. He's one of the best beats on the Sox out there. Credit to Zonolla as well...he was on the O'Hoppe thing and that was also confirmed by Sharma/Moioney a few times. 

I agree, I do think it's unfair to say every pundit having us as a favorite was wrong. I think the truth resides in the middle. There were real talks between the Cubs and the White Sox. But I think we just a bit of a sneak peak into all of those trade talks that happen that we never hear about. Like I bet there were a few insane trade talks the Cubs were involved in at some very, very conceptual levels this weekend and we never heard a peep. 

I think we agree at the heart of it - I just want to defend the kid a bit for having some real information. Even if it's not information everyone else would run with.

 

Yup, we’re in agreement. I absolutely believe he had some information. I’m not going to go too hard on a college kid. There's thousands of aspiring Jeff Passans out there who get morsels of valid information. Learning what’s actually worth sharing comes with experience, I’m sure. I never put too much stock into a deal actually being completed mostly because the overwhelming majority of rumored trades—especially three-team trades—fail.

But anyway, yeah, Cubs being among 10 interested teams and not being the team to pull off a deal is not automatically a Jed failure.

[LBiittner]

3 minutes ago, Cuzi said:

Because he valued trading Hoerner more than trading Shaw.

It's easy to sit back on MLB trade values and play with numbers to say that the Cubs could have just offered X instead of Y, but when the team you are talking to wants X or bust, it's hard to offer Y.

I get it but ?

I cant help believing we had a chance to be proactive in a win now season. And with probably a million words on this subject at this site during the deliberation process it all felt too good to not happen, lol

 

[Post Count Padder]

It's always "fun" to watch this place go from resigned defeat to hope to anger and back to resigned defeat. 

I'd say that if Hoyer doesn't put something together this offseason and we have another mediocre year, he's toast but I'm not sure how much PTR cares at this point as long as he makes money.

[Tryptamine]

Just now, Post Count Padder said:

It's always "fun" to watch this place go from resigned defeat to hope to anger and back to resigned defeat. 

I'd say that if Hoyer doesn't put something together this offseason and we have another mediocre year, he's toast but I'm not sure how much PTR cares at this point as long as he makes money.

With Hoyer, it's best to have no expectations, that way if he actually managed to do anything then you get to be surprised.

[TarzanJoeWallis]

26 minutes ago, LBiittner said:

I get it but ?

I cant help believing we had a chance to be proactive in a win now season. And with probably a million words on this subject at this site during the deliberation process it all felt too good to not happen, lol

 

I wasn’t super stoked about Crochet. Maybe he’ll be great. Maybe he won’t. He’s been really good for half a season. That’s it. I was always leery of what they might have to give up for him. Much, much more interested in Tucker. 

Edited December 12, 2024 by TarzanJoeWallis

[LBiittner]

Who was proponent for signing 36 year old nate eovaldi to a nice affordable contract? He gets 3 yrs 75 million. Affordable just moved up a tax bracket or two.

[chibears55]

18 hours ago, UMFan83 said:

I agree but if you’re Tucker and you just saw Soto wait out his contact and get the largest deal in baseball history how eager are you to sign an extension early rather than test the open market?  Maybe having security is something enticing to him but if it’s not it makes much more sense to wait it out. If that prevents him from getting traded then he gets to stay somewhere he’s comfortable and makes the playoffs every year. 

I highly doubt Jed makes a Tucker trade hoping to get an extension done this offseason and is willing to take the risk of him playing 1 season in Chicago and bolting.  I certainly don’t see Jed offering a contract that blows Tucker away enough to sign early. That’s just not Jed Hoyer. 

Exactly why this trade won't happen if the Astros are looking to get any of the cubs top 3 prospects, Hoyer not going to trade away their best prospects on a 1 year rental with no guarentee of extending him.

[chibears55]

6 minutes ago, Tryptamine said:

With Hoyer, it's best to have no expectations, that way if he actually managed to do anything then you get to be surprised.

That how I approach the offseason and trade deadline with Hoyer,  low expectations for them to actually get star quality players.

I was surprise they got Imanaga and I'll be surprise if they actually get Tucker, or anyone of that quality this offseason. 

 

[LBiittner]

9 minutes ago, TomtheBombadil said:

Lost in all this Tucker and Crochet stuff is the Cubs need to come out with this guy or one of the top two pitchers on the Mariners somehow (both cool too!)…Saw this looking for a Sasaki to Cubs update:

My shinnin’ says the focus is still pitching with the Tucker stuff more signaling “dibs” for all the hard work

I'm praying jeds China syndrome pays off with this possibly wonderful Roki acquisition.

But then I read Padre fans as well as Mariner hopers all believe they have the inside track

[KCCub]

Some notes from Heyman's live steam (Nothing really new)

Bellinger - Cubs/Yankess made a 'bit of progress'
Tucker - Cubs favorites, ask is Paredes & Suzuki & one of Shaw/Smith
Alonso - “I throw the Cubs in the mix for Alonso. They’ve long been rumored to be interested in him.”

Just for the fun of it, I wanted to see what a scenario looked like if Jed goes mad scientist and meets the Astros demands (Logic says absolutely won't happen).

Out

Bellinger $27.5m ($26.6m AAV) Streamer Proj 2.1 fWAR
Paredes $6.2m Proj 3.1 fWAR
Suzuki $19m ($17m AAV) Proj 2.2 fWAR

$52.7m 7.4 fWAR Proj 

In

Tucker $16.7m Proj 5.5 fWAR
Alonso $25m (5/$125m CS & MLBTR 5/$125m) Proj 2.6 fWAR

$41.7m 8.1 fWAR Proj

Elephants in the room - Who plays 3b? What does Bellinger's return look like and how much $$$ are the Cubs eating?

[LBiittner]

17 minutes ago, TarzanJoeWallis said:

I wasn’t super stoked about Crochet. Maybe he’ll be great. Maybe he won’t. He’s been really good for half a season. That’s it. I was always leery of what they might have to give up for him. Much, much more interested in Tucker. 

I definitely wanted that pitcher. But I really want Tucker just as much. The one bothersome notion. Our old buddy breslow has now pushed the Yankees into responding to the crochet deal. And almost assuredly belli won't be an equal response. Im keeping a close watch on Feinsand reporting about Tucker

[Rcal10]

3 minutes ago, LBiittner said:

I definitely wanted that pitcher. But I really want Tucker just as much. The one bothersome notion. Our old buddy breslow has now pushed the Yankees into responding to the crochet deal. And almost assuredly belli won't be an equal response. Im keeping a close watch on Feinsand reporting about Tucker

Might be Bregman. All he cost the Yankees is money. 

[Rcal10]

14 minutes ago, KCCub said:

Some notes from Heyman's live steam (Nothing really new)

Bellinger - Cubs/Yankess made a 'bit of progress'
Tucker - Cubs favorites, ask is Paredes & Suzuki & one of Shaw/Smith
Alonso - “I throw the Cubs in the mix for Alonso. They’ve long been rumored to be interested in him.”

Just for the fun of it, I wanted to see what a scenario looked like if Jed goes mad scientist and meets the Astros demands (Logic says absolutely won't happen).

Out

Bellinger $27.5m ($26.6m AAV) Streamer Proj 2.1 fWAR
Paredes $6.2m Proj 3.1 fWAR
Suzuki $19m ($17m AAV) Proj 2.2 fWAR

$52.7m 7.4 fWAR Proj 

In

Tucker $16.7m Proj 5.5 fWAR
Alonso $25m (5/$125m CS & MLBTR 5/$125m) Proj 2.6 fWAR

$41.7m 8.1 fWAR Proj

Elephants in the room - Who plays 3b? What does Bellinger's return look like and how much $$$ are the Cubs eating?

That ask for Tucker is too high. I want him, but if the Astros want that much and demand it, Cubs walk away. Most I would go for the Cubs is 2 of Parades/Shaw/Smith/Alcantara plus a lesser prospect or someone like Assad or Wesneski. No in Suzuki. 

Edited December 12, 2024 by Rcal10

[LBiittner]

16 minutes ago, KCCub said:

Some notes from Heyman's live steam (Nothing really new)

Bellinger - Cubs/Yankess made a 'bit of progress'
Tucker - Cubs favorites, ask is Paredes & Suzuki & one of Shaw/Smith
Alonso - “I throw the Cubs in the mix for Alonso. They’ve long been rumored to be interested in him.”

Just for the fun of it, I wanted to see what a scenario looked like if Jed goes mad scientist and meets the Astros demands (Logic says absolutely won't happen).

Out

Bellinger $27.5m ($26.6m AAV) Streamer Proj 2.1 fWAR
Paredes $6.2m Proj 3.1 fWAR
Suzuki $19m ($17m AAV) Proj 2.2 fWAR

$52.7m 7.4 fWAR Proj 

In

Tucker $16.7m Proj 5.5 fWAR
Alonso $25m (5/$125m CS & MLBTR 5/$125m) Proj 2.6 fWAR

$41.7m 8.1 fWAR Proj

Elephants in the room - Who plays 3b? What does Bellinger's return look like and how much $$$ are the Cubs eating?

I like your thoughts. 3b possibly returns to being a blackhole. And I'd suspect the Mets might want to have Alonzo batting with Soto. 

Edited December 12, 2024 by LBiittner

[TarzanJoeWallis]

4 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

Might be Bregman. All he cost the Yankees is money. 

Might also be that they don’t feel a need to respond to the Red Sox since they had already signed Fried. 

[Rcal10]

28 minutes ago, chibears55 said:

Exactly why this trade won't happen if the Astros are looking to get any of the cubs top 3 prospects, Hoyer not going to trade away their best prospects on a 1 year rental with no guarentee of extending him.

Who are the Cubs top 3 that they won’t trade? I am curious because if/when the trade happens I want to see if any of the Cubs top 3 are in it. To me the issue is if the Astros really want Parades and Suzuki. That is what I think Jed wants no part of. I think he would give any one prospect and Parades for him. And when/if the trade happens they will not have a guarantee he will extend. 

[LBiittner]

9 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

Might be Bregman. All he cost the Yankees is money. 

I'm hoping bregman back to stros otherwise I doubt Tucker will be available 

[Post Count Padder]

Yeah I took Crochet as a response to Yankees getting Fried. At this point feels like Bregman is staying in Houston or going to the Yankees. Maybe the Mariners.