Winter Meetings thread

[Jason Ross]

3 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

I get the match. But Tucker isn’t worth that haul. Plain and simple. And I don’t want to trade Suzuki. 

I get it. But it's being pedantic at that point. The net probably isn't different enough that it really matters. At that point you're just being stubborn because Tucker isn't worth that much in a single move, and not looking at it from the aspect of the net. If you'd do the top, you'd probably do the bottom.

[Rcal10]

2 minutes ago, 1908_Cubs said:

I get it. But it's being pedantic at that point. The net probably isn't different enough that it really matters. At that point you're just being stubborn because Tucker isn't worth that much in a single move, and not looking at it from the aspect of the net. If you'd do the top, you'd probably do the bottom.

Comes down to Suzuki is not someone I want to trade. 

[Jason Ross]

Just now, Rcal10 said:

Comes down to Suzuki is not someone I want to trade. 

I like Seiya a lot. He's not stopping me from getting Kyle Tucker. 

[thawv]

7 hours ago, 1908_Cubs said:

How out of touch with reality do you think Jed Hoyer is? 

I get that we all have this negative feeling about everything, but Jed Hoyer lives on planet Earth. If you and I know that he'd never once consider that, then so does Hoyer. I think we have to give some understanding that while Hoyer hasn't shown that ability in the past, that he also understands value and what a player needs. I think we also have to understand that he probably wouldn't trade these assets without that understanding or some belief he can offer a market value deal. 

In short, then he's not trading any assets for Tucker.  He's not going to give him what he's going to get on the open market.  

[chibears55]

2 hours ago, Rcal10 said:

Who are the Cubs top 3 that they won’t trade? I am curious because if/when the trade happens I want to see if any of the Cubs top 3 are in it. To me the issue is if the Astros really want Parades and Suzuki. That is what I think Jed wants no part of. I think he would give any one prospect and Parades for him. And when/if the trade happens they will not have a guarantee he will extend. 

I dont think he'll risk trading Shaw, Caissie,  or Horton for a player with no guarentee of extending pass 1 year.

If you trade any of those 3, it better be for a player that gonna be around a couple seasons 

[Jason Ross]

2 minutes ago, thawv said:

In short, then he's not trading any assets for Tucker.  He's not going to give him what he's going to get on the open market.  

So then we should just ignore all of the reports that the Cubs are the leaders in the clubhouse to acquire Tucker? Because he isn't getting Tucker for free and it sounds like the winds across the entire industry are saying "the Cubs are really going to do this". They're going to trade real assets.

So then what if it happens? 

[chibears55]

Cubs should just sign Bregman and trade for Tucker 🤷‍♂️😅

 

Ooops..lol

Edited December 12, 2024 by chibears55

[Cuzi]

Just now, chibears55 said:

Cubs should just trade for Bregman and Tucker 🤷‍♂️😅

Trade for a teamless player? Bold strat.

[KCCub]

Just now, chibears55 said:

Cubs should just trade for Bregman and Tucker 🤷‍♂️😅

Kind of hard to trade for a FA 

[chibears55]

3 minutes ago, chibears55 said:

000

 

Edited December 12, 2024 by chibears55

[thawv]

14 minutes ago, 1908_Cubs said:

So then we should just ignore all of the reports that the Cubs are the leaders in the clubhouse to acquire Tucker? Because he isn't getting Tucker for free and it sounds like the winds across the entire industry are saying "the Cubs are really going to do this". They're going to trade real assets.

So then what if it happens? 

IF it happens, he'll be a FA after the season.  They are not going to give him 35+ million a year.  And they're not paying him for 10-12 years.  This is not even an option for this franchise. 

[Jason Ross]

3 minutes ago, thawv said:

IF it happens, he'll be a FA after the season.  They are not going to give him 35+ million a year.  And they're not paying him for 10-12 years.  This is not even an option for this franchise. 

Okay. I think this is pretty silly - Hoyer, a notoriously non-aggressive VP when it comes to trades and prospects goes out, makes an aggressive trade and then just throws his hands up when it comes to long term value, flushing good assets down the drain for a one year guy. That just doesn't sound like what's happening here.

I'm not going to predict an extension. But I also don't share the defeatist attitude. I do expect that Hoyer would acquire Tucker with the intent to try to sign him to a real market value contract. 

Quote

"There is nothing that precludes us from being involved in those players. We did, organizationally, decide not to pursue that one. It doesn't mean in the future we won't but that was one we didn't."

There's nothing that precludes them from being involved with these players. This would be in the future. That's Jed Hoyer's words on Tuesday, right before the Tucker thing kicked off.

A reminder as well: the Cubs reportedly made a massive $400+m offer to Ohtani. They did it once. 

[Rcal10]

23 minutes ago, chibears55 said:

I dont think he'll risk trading Shaw, Caissie,  or Horton for a player with no guarentee of extending pass 1 year.

If you trade any of those 3, it better be for a player that gonna be around a couple seasons 

Doesn’t appear the Astros have asked for any of those guys anyway. (maybe Shaw, a little) seems it has been Paredes and Smith mostly. With one report of Suzuki too. That is too much. 

[thawv]

5 minutes ago, 1908_Cubs said:

Okay. I think this is pretty silly - Hoyer, a notoriously non-aggressive VP when it comes to trades and prospects goes out, makes an aggressive trade and then just throws his hands up when it comes to long term value, flushing good assets down the drain for a one year guy. That just doesn't sound like what's happening here.

I'm not going to predict an extension. But I also don't share the defeatist attitude. I do expect that Hoyer would acquire Tucker with the intent to try to sign him to a real market value contract. 

There's nothing that precludes them from being involved with these players. This would be in the future. That's Jed Hoyer's words on Tuesday, right before the Tucker thing kicked off.

A reminder as well: the Cubs reportedly made a massive $400+m offer to Ohtani. They did it once. 

I just don't see it remotely happening.  

[Jason Ross]

Just now, thawv said:

I just don't see it remotely happening.  

And I just don't remotely see Hoyer trading good assets for a one year rental without trying to engage with the Tucker camp or not understanding what his market is. 

[squally1313]

Things I don't quite understand re: the motivations of the other teams involved here.

Astros: Trade Tucker to sign Bregman. Why? I get 6/150 is not 10/350, but Tucker is vastly better and if they are trying to avoid a step back, playing next year with Tucker instead of Bregman is a much better team. Cutting costs to go sign Bregman to that deal doesn't make sense to me unless they just want to sell Altuve/Bregman/etc nostalgia for the next five years. 

Yankees: If we're trading for Warren to trade to the Astros....why wouldn't they just cut out the middleman (us) and go get Tucker themselves? 1 year of Tucker >> 2 years of Bellinger, throw in one of their 8 starting pitchers and some hyped up other prospect and there's their actual Soto replacement.  

[Jason Ross]

5 minutes ago, squally1313 said:

Things I don't quite understand re: the motivations of the other teams involved here.

Astros: Trade Tucker to sign Bregman. Why? I get 6/150 is not 10/350, but Tucker is vastly better and if they are trying to avoid a step back, playing next year with Tucker instead of Bregman is a much better team. Cutting costs to go sign Bregman to that deal doesn't make sense to me unless they just want to sell Altuve/Bregman/etc nostalgia for the next five years. 

Yankees: If we're trading for Warren to trade to the Astros....why wouldn't they just cut out the middleman (us) and go get Tucker themselves? 1 year of Tucker >> 2 years of Bellinger, throw in one of their 8 starting pitchers and some hyped up other prospect and there's their actual Soto replacement.  

My best guess:

1. The Astros don't expect to get Bregman. Getting Parades gets them a 3b who's tailor made for the Crawford boxes and an immediate replacement. They also get prospects (perhaps Warren, Smith, whatever). This gives them an immediate floor where they don't bottom out and can quickly get back to being good. They were into Parades at the deadline pretty heavily. So they get their second crack on him, and get prospects who could help shortly.

2. The Yankees probably sign Bregman out from under the Astros. They tried to get the Astros to engage on Tucker, maybe for Gil, maybe not, but once it became clear to the Astros that Bregman probably wasn't happening, and the Cubs offered Parades, they pivoted there. Bellinger gives you Dominguez cover if he doesn't hit, but can also handle 1b or a corner spot. Bellinger, a LHH, is a good fit for Yankee stadium.

But that's me just trying to see things from their perspective the best I can.

[thawv]

5 minutes ago, 1908_Cubs said:

And I just don't remotely see Hoyer trading good assets for a one year rental without trying to engage with the Tucker camp or not understanding what his market is. 

Now this I agree with.  But because we have a great idea of the asking price, I think that Jed's smart enough to know that the Cubs are out on any Tucker contract deal.  So that means, no trade. 

[Rcal10]

34 minutes ago, 1908_Cubs said:

I like Seiya a lot. He's not stopping me from getting Kyle Tucker. 

I would go as far as Suzuki or Paredes plus Smith, Cassie or Alcantara, + Wesneski, Assad or Warren if the Cubs do trade Bellinger. Not 2 bats from the everyday line up for Tucker. It does come a point where they may be bidding against themselves. If he went somewhere else I would be very curious to see what they end up with. I would bet it wouldn’t be 2 solid line up pieces and a top prospect.
I really wouldn’t want Suzuki to be the major leaguer they picked, and think they would pick Paredes anyway. But if backed against the wall I wouldn’t let Suzuki stop the deal as long as he was the only bat from the 24’ every day line up.

[LBiittner]

I'm wondering if Carson Kelly signing happens shortly after we trade 4 for 1 ?

[Jason Ross]

Just now, thawv said:

Now this I agree with.  But because we have a great idea of the asking price, I think that Jed's smart enough to know that the Cubs are out on any Tucker contract deal.  So that means, no trade. 

So then...you think the entire industry is wrong that the Cubs are the clubouse leaders. 

That's pretty defeatist.

[LBiittner]

Wish we could get Sharma update

[thawv]

5 minutes ago, 1908_Cubs said:

So then...you think the entire industry is wrong that the Cubs are the clubouse leaders. 

That's pretty defeatist.

I think that the Cubs are not going to trade for him because even Jed isn't dumb enough to know that he's not going to extend him or sign him as a FA.   If being a realist is defeatist, then yes, you got me. 

[Rcal10]

12 minutes ago, thawv said:

Now this I agree with.  But because we have a great idea of the asking price, I think that Jed's smart enough to know that the Cubs are out on any Tucker contract deal.  So that means, no trade. 

So this is a show by Jed? He is wasting hours where he could be discussing other options, on talking about Tucker. And he has no intention of trading for him because he already knows they won’t sign him after next year? Seems like a giant waste of time for the Cubs FO. 

Edited December 13, 2024 by Rcal10

[squally1313]

10 minutes ago, 1908_Cubs said:

2. The Yankees probably sign Bregman out from under the Astros. They tried to get the Astros to engage on Tucker, maybe for Gil, maybe not, but once it became clear to the Astros that Bregman probably wasn't happening, and the Cubs offered Parades, they pivoted there. Bellinger gives you Dominguez cover if he doesn't hit, but can also handle 1b or a corner spot. Bellinger, a LHH, is a good fit for Yankee stadium.

But even with a Bregman signing....just trade for Tucker, not Bellinger. Yeah he's not a LHH, but he's 70 points better from a wRC perspective, so think they'll manage to get over it. 

I think on the whole we can offer more to the Astros than they can, and that's why everyone perceives us as winning the race thus far.  Just don't follow the whole 'the Yankees are going to give us a prospect to facilitate the Cubs/Tucker deal' development.