Winter Meetings thread

[squally1313]

2 minutes ago, thawv said:

I think that the Cubs are not going to trade for him because even Jed isn't dumb enough to know that he's not going to extend him or sign him as a FA.   If being a realist is defeatist, then yes, you got me. 

Wait, sorry, do you want to sign Tucker to an extension? Or is your current logic that Jed is smart enough to realize he's dumb enough to not sign him to an extension? If so, is he more smart or dumb?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

20 minutes ago, squally1313 said:

Yankees: If we're trading for Warren to trade to the Astros....why wouldn't they just cut out the middleman (us) and go get Tucker themselves? 1 year of Tucker >> 2 years of Bellinger, throw in one of their 8 starting pitchers and some hyped up other prospect and there's their actual Soto replacement.  

None of these are certain but as possibilities:

• The Yankees are gunshy after paying a huge cost and losing their last rental, especially since they haven't had any time to restock.  
• They don't rate Tucker as highly or the Astros may not rate their system/targets as highly.  
• They aren't in the same division but have had a feud that extends to the GM/ownership level that makes a trade unlikely

[thawv]

3 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

So this is a show by Jed? He is wasting hours where he could be discussing other options, on talking about Tucker. And he has no intention of trading for him because he already knows they won’t sign him after next year? Seems like a giant waste of time for the Cubs FO. 

I don't think it's a show.  I also don't think the trade happens.  It's a terrible, terrible idea to give up this much for a rental.  It's obscene to think that the Cubs are going to pay him 350-400 million.  So because of that, I can't imagine this trade ever going down.  I'd be absolutely shocked if it happens for anything remotely to what's being "reported."   It's nonsensical. 

 

[thawv]

6 minutes ago, squally1313 said:

Wait, sorry, do you want to sign Tucker to an extension? Or is your current logic that Jed is smart enough to realize he's dumb enough to not sign him to an extension? If so, is he more smart or dumb?

He's smart enough not to trade for him because he's smart enough to know he's not paying for an extension.  

I would LOVE to trade for him and sign him to an extension.  It's not happening. 

[Backtobanks]

31 minutes ago, 1908_Cubs said:

Okay. I think this is pretty silly - Hoyer, a notoriously non-aggressive VP when it comes to trades and prospects goes out, makes an aggressive trade and then just throws his hands up when it comes to long term value, flushing good assets down the drain for a one year guy. That just doesn't sound like what's happening here.

I'm not going to predict an extension. But I also don't share the defeatist attitude. I do expect that Hoyer would acquire Tucker with the intent to try to sign him to a real market value contract. 

There's nothing that precludes them from being involved with these players. This would be in the future. That's Jed Hoyer's words on Tuesday, right before the Tucker thing kicked off.

A reminder as well: the Cubs reportedly made a massive $400+m offer to Ohtani. They did it once. 

"Reportedly" doesn't necessarily mean it was true, but in the end, they weren't even close to the winning offer which is the norm for Hoyer and the Cubs.

 

[Rcal10]

3 minutes ago, thawv said:

I don't think it's a show.  I also don't think the trade happens.  It's a terrible, terrible idea to give up this much for a rental.  It's obscene to think that the Cubs are going to pay him 350-400 million.  So because of that, I can't imagine this trade ever going down.  I'd be absolutely shocked if it happens for anything remotely to what's being "reported."   It's nonsensical. 

 

You mean Paredes, Suzuki and Smith for Tucker? If so, I agree it won’t be that. But if it can be Paredes, either Alcantara or Smith and the someone in the Wesneski/Assad level, would you think that is possible? 

[Rcal10]

2 minutes ago, thawv said:

He's smart enough not to trade for him because he's smart enough to know he's not paying for an extension.  

I would LOVE to trade for him and sign him to an extension.  It's not happening. 

But if he is smart enough not to trade for him why even talk to the Astros? Why waste his time? Why not see about Lowe or Naylor? Someone other than Tucker. Why not see about trading for a pitcher. If he is smart, he isn’t acting like it, wasting time on something he knows he will never do. 

[thawv]

1 minute ago, Rcal10 said:

But if he is smart enough not to trade for him why even talk to the Astros? Why waste his time? Why not see about Lowe or Naylor? Someone other than Tucker. Why not see about trading for a pitcher. If he is smart, he isn’t acting like it, wasting time on something he knows he will never do. 

Those are questions that I can't answer.  However, I see no chance of Tucker being a Cub.  And also, we are trusting that the rumors are truth.  The trade makes zero sense at all for the Cubs, because he's a one year rental.  How this story got this far is odd to me.  He's a contract that the Cubs wouldn't even consider entertaining. 

 

[KCCub]

1 minute ago, thawv said:

The trade makes zero sense at all for the Cubs, because he's a one year rental. 

 

We can’t have our cake and eat it too. 
 

We’ve all bitched and moaned over the past handful of seasons over the Cubs not having a true difference maker superstar bat. Tucker currently has the 5th best odds to be the AL mvp next season. The Cubs are in a spot to win the NLC, Tucker helps get us over the hump. If it’s not now, when? And who? Yea it sucks he’s most likely going to walk after next season, but damn, I want at least a punchers chance to make some noise in the playoffs. We can’t just sit around and wait for the next crop of young guys when we have a core of solid cost controlled players in their prime right now. 

[Jason Ross]

34 minutes ago, squally1313 said:

But even with a Bregman signing....just trade for Tucker, not Bellinger. Yeah he's not a LHH, but he's 70 points better from a wRC perspective, so think they'll manage to get over it. 

I think on the whole we can offer more to the Astros than they can, and that's why everyone perceives us as winning the race thus far.  Just don't follow the whole 'the Yankees are going to give us a prospect to facilitate the Cubs/Tucker deal' development. 

It could be that the Astros are prioritizing the 3b. I think Parades is a very appealing addition to Houston. Perhaps the Astros are equally enthralled by Gil, but we know the Astros like Parades - they were supposedly the bridesmaid for his services in July. The Yankees may just not be able to bridge that gap realistically. 

In that event, they probably don't care if the prospect the Cubs get ends up in Houston if they don't think they can get Tucker to begin with. 

[thawv]

3 minutes ago, KCCub said:

We can’t have our cake and eat it too. 
 

We’ve all bitched and moaned over the past handful of seasons over the Cubs not having a true difference maker superstar bat. Tucker currently has the 5th best odds to be the AL mvp next season. The Cubs are in a spot to win the NLC, Tucker helps get us over the hump. If it’s not now, when? And who? Yea it sucks he’s most likely going to walk after next season, but damn, I want at least a punchers chance to make some noise in the playoffs. We can’t just sit around and wait for the next crop of young guys when we have a core of solid cost controlled players in their prime right now. 

tucker would be a fantastic get.  But we have to think about the following season and on.  His cost for one year is just too much. 

[Jason Ross]

Just now, thawv said:

tucker would be a fantastic get.  But we have to think about the following season and on.  His cost for one year is just too much. 

I'm sure Hoyer has considered this - it's literally his job. And why I expect if the Cubs trade for him, they will look to extend him.

[Stratos]

5 hours ago, LBiittner said:

2022? I'm talking the crochet deal bungle by jed. Every pundit known to the inter-web had annointed jed as the primary getter of crochet because of the horde (trees) of perceived riches in the minors.(forest). It is a total fail

The equivalent to the Red Sox prospects the Cubs would have had to give (and beat) to get Crochet would have been roughly Shaw and Cam Smith (2 mid 1st round picks) graded at "55" by MLB Pipeline, plus two 45-graded prospects, so e.g. Wiggins and Mathis.

That's a solid haul for only 2 years of Crochet.  If the Cubs really like their best prospects I don't blame them for holding on to them.  If we're looking at the next 2 years some fans will be upset we don't have Crochet, but over the next 8 years or so we might win on that.  We're all just frustrated that the Cubs have been mediocre the last few years.

[thawv]

2 minutes ago, 1908_Cubs said:

I'm sure Hoyer has considered this - it's literally his job. And why I expect if the Cubs trade for him, they will look to extend him.

Again....I agree with this.  That's why I don't think a trade is a realistic option.  Because an extension is not a realistic option.  Can you imagine trading for him at the cost that's being "reported" and not extending him?  My God!

[Jason Ross]

20 minutes ago, thawv said:

Those are questions that I can't answer.  However, I see no chance of Tucker being a Cub.  And also, we are trusting that the rumors are truth.  The trade makes zero sense at all for the Cubs, because he's a one year rental.  How this story got this far is odd to me.  He's a contract that the Cubs wouldn't even consider entertaining. 

 

There comes a point where you have to ask yourself what's more likely: that national writers like Heyman and Sherman, local beats like Astros beats and Cub beats, and non-partisan's like the former BBWA president are all flat out wrong, and that the Cubs aren't the leaders...or that where there's a lot of smoke, independent of each other, than there's fire. 

This feels much more like you don't think the Cubs would ever sign Tucker so you've decided you know more than these guys. Are these rumors truth? No. But it's far more logical that all of these reporters are on to something and that the Cubs are fairly close to getting Tucker than it is that they're all just flat wrong. And maybe it's you who needs to reconsider your own biases and opinions.

[thawv]

4 minutes ago, 1908_Cubs said:

There comes a point where you have to ask yourself what's more likely: that national writers like Heyman and Sherman, local beats like Astros beats and Cub beats, and non-partisan's like the former BBWA president are all flat out wrong, and that the Cubs aren't the leaders...or that where there's a lot of smoke, independent of each other, than there's fire. 

This feels much more like you don't think the Cubs would ever sign Tucker so you've decided you know more than these guys. Are these rumors truth? No. But it's far more logical that all of these reporters are on to something and that the Cubs are fairly close to getting Tucker than it is that they're all just flat wrong. And maybe it's you who needs to reconsider your own biases and opinions.

This is exactly what it is.  I don't see any way they trade for him because I don't see anyway they extend him.  This to me is pretty obvious that a trade is not happening regardless of what's being "reported."  

[Bertz]

The Cubs' starting pitching depth right now, in rough order of how likely I think they'd get an April start

Steele/Shota/Taillon/Boyd

Assad/Brown/Wicks/Wesneski

Horton/Birdsell

Kilian/Noland

Will Warren would likely slot in right behind Wesneski?  No such thing as too much pitching, but after adding Warren this feels like a group you could deal two from, especially if another veteran SP were on the way.

I dunno, feels like pretty strong tea leaves that they're still gonna address SP via trade after (presumably) adding Tucker.

[Jason Ross]

Just now, thawv said:

This is exactly what it is.  I don't see any way they trade for him because I don't see anyway they extend him.  This to me is pretty obvious that a trade is not happening regardless of what's being "reported."  

You know that sounds ridiculous, right? That you somehow know better than:

Joel Sherman, Jon Heyman, Sahdev Sharma, Jose de Jesus Ortiz, Max Greenwood, Mathew Trueblood, Jesse Rogers, Brian McTaggert...

Listen, I think Heyman is running with some bad information on the Suzuki/Parades/Smith demands because he's pretty much on an island on this. But every person on the list above has said that the Cubs are considered the clubhouse leaders. For you to be right, not only would every one of those guys need to be wrong, they'd have to be wrong by such a magnitude that not only were the Cubs not the perceived leaders, but that they basically weren't even in this thing for real. 

 

[Bertz]

Marquee talking about this potential deal feels telling.

Edited December 13, 2024 by Bertz

[JD94]

 

[Jason Ross]

1 minute ago, JD94 said:

 

Feels like we're barreling towards a Parades/Smith/pitcher framework.

[UMFan83]

Just now, 1908_Cubs said:

Feels like we're barreling towards a Parades/Smith/pitcher framework.

I can live with that

[JD94]

*If* hypothetically the deal involves Paredes and Shaw, where do the Cubs turn for 3B next season? Busch and go after Alonso to play 1st? Keep Belli and move Busch to 3rd? Possibly Bregman? Just curious what y’all’s thoughts are. 

[thawv]

8 minutes ago, 1908_Cubs said:

You know that sounds ridiculous, right? That you somehow know better than:

Joel Sherman, Jon Heyman, Sahdev Sharma, Jose de Jesus Ortiz, Max Greenwood, Mathew Trueblood, Jesse Rogers, Brian McTaggert...

Listen, I think Heyman is running with some bad information on the Suzuki/Parades/Smith demands because he's pretty much on an island on this. But every person on the list above has said that the Cubs are considered the clubhouse leaders. For you to be right, not only would every one of those guys need to be wrong, they'd have to be wrong by such a magnitude that not only were the Cubs not the perceived leaders, but that they basically weren't even in this thing for real. 

 

Of course I don't know better than them.  I just don't see any way that Jed gives up what the reported asking price is for Tucker, knowing he's a rental.  

[JD94]

1 minute ago, 1908_Cubs said:

Feels like we're barreling towards a Parades/Smith/pitcher framework.

Dream scenario imo. Would hate to lose Smith. Loved him on draft day and still do today, but if we can get Tucker without giving up Shaw, that’s a huge W in my book.