Lilly & Theriot to the Dodgers for DeWitt, 2 Minor Leaguers

[Benchwarmer]

What success? I don't see any at Wrigley. And that's my point. We seemed to have been in the Far East a number of years now with scouts and all that and little to show for it.

[Guest]

What success? I don't see any at Wrigley. And that's my point. We seemed to have been in the Far East a number of years now with scouts and all that and little to show for it.

 

There's a very large attrition rate for prospects, whether they come from Japan, Korea, the Dominican, or Cal State Fullerton. There haven't been a huge quantity of Pac Rim guys signed in general, so to say "none of them have been hugely successful at the MLB level, this is a failure of the system" is an overstatement. Choi put up 3 WAR in his time in the big leagues, so there isn't a complete dearth of success. After that, Ryu is the only other one I can point to that has had a full chance to work through the system(although I wouldn't doubt if there were a guy or two who slipped my mind). The other thing to note is that while the Cubs have been on the Pac Rim for a while, they moved away from it as a point of emphasis for several years. That's why there's a gap between Choi/Ryu and the more current crop of guys like Chen/Rhee/Lee/Ha/Kim/Searle/Spencer/Hams. They weren't failing to develop guys in the interim, they just weren't signing guys(again, with the caveat that I may be forgetting the exception that proves the rule)

[sneakypower]

What success? I don't see any at Wrigley. And that's my point. We seemed to have been in the Far East a number of years now with scouts and all that and little to show for it.

Derrek Lee

[Guest]

What success? I don't see any at Wrigley. And that's my point. We seemed to have been in the Far East a number of years now with scouts and all that and little to show for it.

Derrek Lee

Lee litterally fell into Hendry's lap. Who knows what Choi's career would hve looked like had Baltimore been able to work out an extension.

 

Plus, even if the Cubs didn't have Choi they would have gotten Lee.

[Guest]

What success? I don't see any at Wrigley. And that's my point. We seemed to have been in the Far East a number of years now with scouts and all that and little to show for it.

 

After the signing of Ryu in 2000 or so (I can't get to BR.com), the Cubs didn't sign another player in the Far East till Hung-Wen Chen and Dae-Eun Rhee in 2007.

In their first foray into the Far East, they only signed 3 Koreans so getting 2 of them (Choi and Ryu) to the bigs given attrition is pretty good.

[Guest]

There's also the opportunity to use the ~$4M in salary savings to go a bit nuts on international signings.

 

Tim-I know that some teams(Dodgers and Seattle) value their Far East scouting and have had success, but I don't think the Cubs are good at it. Fukudome has been a disappointment and Hee Seop Choi couldn't get out of other players way. We've had catching and pitching suspects who languish at A or AA. Are we missing out on the really good ones or just not enough to around?

What everyone else said. :D

[sneakypower]

What success? I don't see any at Wrigley. And that's my point. We seemed to have been in the Far East a number of years now with scouts and all that and little to show for it.

Derrek Lee

Lee litterally fell into Hendry's lap. Who knows what Choi's career would hve looked like had Baltimore been able to work out an extension.

 

Plus, even if the Cubs didn't have Choi they would have gotten Lee.

was our system rife with highly touted mlb-ready 1B prospects Baltim-er, Florida could have plugged in right away to replace Lee?

 

 

(no)

[Guest]

Last year, a Korean baseball official was quoted as saying they had to "stop the Cubs" to keep the talent in the country.

[Clem Fandango]

Last year, a Korean baseball official was quoted as saying they had to "stop the Cubs" to keep the talent in the country.

 

That's awesome

[daske17]

Last year, a Korean baseball official was quoted as saying they had to "stop the Cubs" to keep the talent in the country.

 

That's awesome

 

Time to get Team America into action

 

...

 

wait, wrong Korea.

[haubrich91]

From MLBTradeRumors:

The Cubs have indicated a recent willingness to assume some of the $4.43MM owed to Lilly, reports ESPN's Jayson Stark. That'd help the chances of a Dodgers deal. Unfortunately for the Cubs, potential Lilly suitors like the Mets and Tigers may be reassessing their chances.

 

The Twins have asked about Lilly, reports Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports, but their presence on his no-trade list means he'd require additional compensation to accept a deal.

[Keener98]

I wonder if the new ballpark in Minnesota would have any effect on Lilly waiving his NTC to go there? Hes got a few odd teams to be on a No Trade list, Philly, Tampa, and Minny. Philly I understand as he would get killed in that park, and maybe TB cause they sucked when he signed the deal.

[Post Count Padder]

Ed Price of AOL Fanhouse hears that a deal that would send Ted Lilly to the Phillies and J.A. Happ to the Cubs may be in the works.

Price makes sure to note that the rumor is "not confirmed," but it is worth looking at anyway. Lilly, 34, has posted a 3.69 ERA and 1.14 WHIP in 18 starts this season and would give the Phillies a solid middle-of-the-rotation option. Happ is a young lefty who might do well with a change of scenery.

Source: Ed Price on Twitter

 

That's not a bad return, if true. Though I would hope for another player, too.

[Guest]

Again, I really don't see the point in trading for Happ. He's really not that good, despite his flukish results last year. We've got an overful rotation already. I'd rather be targeting prospects at this point.

[jersey cubs fan]

I wonder if the new ballpark in Minnesota would have any effect on Lilly waiving his NTC to go there? Hes got a few odd teams to be on a No Trade list, Philly, Tampa, and Minny. Philly I understand as he would get killed in that park, and maybe TB cause they sucked when he signed the deal.

 

The Twins aren't odd. They are probably on 95% of all no trade clauses, because if you get traded there you are in Minnesota.

[CUBZ99]

Again, I really don't see the point in trading for Happ. He's really not that good, despite his flukish results last year. We've got an overful rotation already. I'd rather be targeting prospects at this point.

 

Happ is still relatively cheap and his career 1.29 WHIP is not bad. I agree with you overall though. I would like to see the Cubs get a prospect with a higher ceiling.

[Clem Fandango]

J.A. Happ's numbers prior to his MLB breakout weren't bad by any means, but it does seem his breakout year was a fluke. Is J.A. Happ really that bad though that we wouldn't want him on the Cubs? Obviously he's been injured, but would this be a case of buying low, breaking even, or taking whatever we can get?

[Guest]

I agree with Tim. Maybe the Cubs are trying to stockpile young SPers for the Winter meetings. I don't know.

[jersey cubs fan]

I agree with Tim. Maybe the Cubs are trying to stockpile young SPers for the Winter meetings. I don't know.

 

 

If you assume they have penciled Cashner into a relief role and are doing anything they can to get rid of Zambrano, they don't really have an abundance of starting pitchers. Silva is having a fluke year, Lilly is gone, Wells has hit a rough patch or two. Dempster is the only stable guy returning. Gorzo has been good for the Cubs but is in no way a lock for 200 innings of solid starting. You have some arms in the minors, but all of them have major question marks.

[SouthSideRyan]

I agree with Tim. Maybe the Cubs are trying to stockpile young SPers for the Winter meetings. I don't know.

 

 

If you assume they have penciled Cashner into a relief role and are doing anything they can to get rid of Zambrano, they don't really have an abundance of starting pitchers. Silva is having a fluke year, Lilly is gone, Wells has hit a rough patch or two. Dempster is the only stable guy returning. Gorzo has been good for the Cubs but is in no way a lock for 200 innings of solid starting. You have some arms in the minors, but all of them have major question marks.

 

The Cubs have 5 starters who have performed at an above average rate this year (Lilly included) They also have a guy with a better track record than all of them in the pen. They also have Cashner, Jackson, and Diamond as major league ready arms. Yes, if we're going to talk in the Cubs are [expletive] stupid terms, sure they might not be stocked enough because they'll turn Jay Jackson into a 3B and release Carlos Zambrano, but what is the point in talking about that.

[jersey cubs fan]

I agree with Tim. Maybe the Cubs are trying to stockpile young SPers for the Winter meetings. I don't know.

 

 

If you assume they have penciled Cashner into a relief role and are doing anything they can to get rid of Zambrano, they don't really have an abundance of starting pitchers. Silva is having a fluke year, Lilly is gone, Wells has hit a rough patch or two. Dempster is the only stable guy returning. Gorzo has been good for the Cubs but is in no way a lock for 200 innings of solid starting. You have some arms in the minors, but all of them have major question marks.

 

The Cubs have 5 starters who have performed at an above average rate this year (Lilly included) They also have a guy with a better track record than all of them in the pen. They also have Cashner, Jackson, and Diamond as major league ready arms. Yes, if we're going to talk in the Cubs are [expletive] stupid terms, sure they might not be stocked enough because they'll turn Jay Jackson into a 3B and release Carlos Zambrano, but what is the point in talking about that.

 

Well the Cubs like to carry 12 pitchers, and have talked about wanting 7 guys available for starting duty. If Lilly is gone and Zambrano is god knows what, they will be counting on a combination of Dempter, inconsistent track records and prospects to fill out a rotation.

[illiniguy]

I agree with Tim. Maybe the Cubs are trying to stockpile young SPers for the Winter meetings. I don't know.

 

 

If you assume they have penciled Cashner into a relief role and are doing anything they can to get rid of Zambrano, they don't really have an abundance of starting pitchers. Silva is having a fluke year, Lilly is gone, Wells has hit a rough patch or two. Dempster is the only stable guy returning. Gorzo has been good for the Cubs but is in no way a lock for 200 innings of solid starting. You have some arms in the minors, but all of them have major question marks.

 

The Cubs have 5 starters who have performed at an above average rate this year (Lilly included) They also have a guy with a better track record than all of them in the pen. They also have Cashner, Jackson, and Diamond as major league ready arms. Yes, if we're going to talk in the Cubs are [expletive] stupid terms, sure they might not be stocked enough because they'll turn Jay Jackson into a 3B and release Carlos Zambrano, but what is the point in talking about that.

 

Well the Cubs like to carry 12 pitchers, and have talked about wanting 7 guys available for starting duty. If Lilly is gone and Zambrano is god knows what, they will be counting on a combination of Dempter, inconsistent track records and prospects to fill out a rotation.

Who cares? At this point it is better to lose and get a better draft pick. Finishing .500 does us no good as a franchise.

[SouthSideRyan]

How many years of above average major league pitching before Wells has enough of a track record? You're already punting next year anyway, so why would you want to bring in a guy like Happ who the best you could hope for is what every one of our pitchers did this year?

[jersey cubs fan]

I agree with Tim. Maybe the Cubs are trying to stockpile young SPers for the Winter meetings. I don't know.

 

 

If you assume they have penciled Cashner into a relief role and are doing anything they can to get rid of Zambrano, they don't really have an abundance of starting pitchers. Silva is having a fluke year, Lilly is gone, Wells has hit a rough patch or two. Dempster is the only stable guy returning. Gorzo has been good for the Cubs but is in no way a lock for 200 innings of solid starting. You have some arms in the minors, but all of them have major question marks.

 

The Cubs have 5 starters who have performed at an above average rate this year (Lilly included) They also have a guy with a better track record than all of them in the pen. They also have Cashner, Jackson, and Diamond as major league ready arms. Yes, if we're going to talk in the Cubs are [expletive] stupid terms, sure they might not be stocked enough because they'll turn Jay Jackson into a 3B and release Carlos Zambrano, but what is the point in talking about that.

 

Well the Cubs like to carry 12 pitchers, and have talked about wanting 7 guys available for starting duty. If Lilly is gone and Zambrano is god knows what, they will be counting on a combination of Dempter, inconsistent track records and prospects to fill out a rotation.

Who cares? At this point it is better to lose and get a better draft pick. Finishing .500 does us no good as a franchise.

 

I'm not getting your response here.

[jersey cubs fan]

How many years of above average major league pitching before Wells has enough of a track record? You're already punting next year anyway, so why would you want to bring in a guy like Happ who the best you could hope for is what every one of our pitchers did this year?

 

You ask that as if he's got 3-4. He's got 1 so far in his career. And he's yet to do it over a full season of 180-200 innings either. Still, he could be your 2nd more reliable starter next year. That's not good.