CC Sabathia Traded to Brewers (for LaPorta + Prospects)

[VanceJergins]

(a) the brewers' offense is a lot more "hit" than "miss"

(b) does the national league still have a wild card slot?

 

The Cubs offense is better the Brewers WITHOUT Soriano.

As far as (b) goes, that spot will be occupied by the Phillies or Mets.

The Mets aren't that good.

 

For the wild card they are. Stack them up against the Brewers and who would you take?

 

Starters? Maybe a slight edge to Milwaukee.

Pen? Mets, easily.

Offense? Mets.

 

I would take the Brewers offense 10 days a week over the Mets.

 

Not really. Actually, not at all.

 

Oh, I wouldn't? My bad.

[TruffleShuffle]

drafting best player available is a shrewd move. everyone wondered what the hell the brewers were doing when they picked laporta, given the presence of braun and fielder, but look what they've turned him into. as an aside, that's another big reason why you pick wieters and not vitters last year.

 

 

That's not even close to a good comparison.

 

do explain. vitters is somewhat of a project whose trade value, if he pans out, is likely to be highest 3 years down the road when he's continued to hit well into AA. wieters is a known commodity who is likely to come in and destroy minor league pitching right away. wieters offers more trade value on the open market at this time, which is something that should be very important to a "built to win now" team like the cubs.

[ChiCubsFan]

Jim, the ball is now in your court

 

GET BURNETT

 

I'd be OK with Harden, too.

 

What about Cliff Lee or Aaron Cook?

 

I worry about Lee keeping it up. My list of acceptable aquisitions includes Harden, Cain, Cook, Hudson, and Burnett. Some of those would be long shots. I also wouldn't mind buying low on Ian Snell in addition to one of those guys if the Pirates decide to make another horrible trade with us.

[Little Slide Rooter]

The Cubs offense is better the Brewers WITHOUT Soriano.

 

O RLY?

 

on the cubs' side:

soto is way better than kendall

derosa at this point is a little better than weeks

ramirez is easily better than hall

 

on the brewers' side:

hardy is better than theriot

fielder is marginally better than lee

cameron is better than edmonds/johnson

braun is way better than whoever's playing left in soriano's absence

hart is probably slightly better than fukudome, but it's close

 

 

As far as (b) goes, that spot will be occupied by the Phillies or Mets.

 

the same mets that trail the brewers by either 5 or 6 games, pending the outcome of their game today? BP has the NL east at roughly a 10% chance of winning the wild card, so your confidence in this respect is unwarranted.

 

Soto>Kendall

Lee>Fielder

DeRosa>Weeks

Theriot

Ramirez>Hall

Hart

Edmonds/Johnson>Cameron, when Edmonds and Johnson are properly platooned vs RHPs/LHPs

Soriano

[XZero771679666304]

The Cubs offense is better the Brewers WITHOUT Soriano.

 

O RLY?

 

on the cubs' side:

soto is way better than kendall

derosa at this point is a little better than weeks

ramirez is easily better than hall

 

on the brewers' side:

hardy is better than theriot

fielder is marginally better than lee

cameron is better than edmonds/johnson

braun is way better than whoever's playing left in soriano's absence

hart is probably slightly better than fukudome, but it's close

 

 

As far as (b) goes, that spot will be occupied by the Phillies or Mets.

 

the same mets that trail the brewers by either 5 or 6 games, pending the outcome of their game today? BP has the NL east at roughly a 10% chance of winning the wild card, so your confidence in this respect is unwarranted.

 

DeRosa at this point is more than a little better than Weeks. He's a lot better.

Lee has been better than Fielder, even with his horrid month long slump.

 

Other than that, yeah.

[CoolHandLuke]

Good thing for the Brewers that Laporta signed so quickly last year.

[VanceJergins]

drafting best player available is a shrewd move. everyone wondered what the hell the brewers were doing when they picked laporta, given the presence of braun and fielder, but look what they've turned him into. as an aside, that's another big reason why you pick wieters and not vitters last year.

 

 

That's not even close to a good comparison.

 

do explain. vitters is somewhat of a project whose trade value, if he pans out, is likely to be highest 3 years down the road when he's continued to hit well into AA. wieters is a known commodity who is likely to come in and destroy minor league pitching right away. wieters offers more trade value on the open market at this time, which is something that should be very important to a "built to win now" team like the cubs.

 

Why are you assuming their sole purpose for drafting was immediate trade value?

[Butterscup1679666578]

The Cubs offense is better the Brewers WITHOUT Soriano.

 

O RLY?

 

on the cubs' side:

soto is way better than kendall

derosa at this point is a little better than weeks

ramirez is easily better than hall

 

on the brewers' side:

hardy is better than theriot

fielder is marginally better than lee

cameron is better than edmonds/johnson

braun is way better than whoever's playing left in soriano's absence

hart is probably slightly better than fukudome, but it's close

 

 

As far as (b) goes, that spot will be occupied by the Phillies or Mets.

 

the same mets that trail the brewers by either 5 or 6 games, pending the outcome of their game today? BP has the NL east at roughly a 10% chance of winning the wild card, so your confidence in this respect is unwarranted.

 

How is DeRosa a little better than Weeks when DeRosa is in the .800s at OPS and Weeks in the .600s? Weeks is a terrible baseball player.

[ChiCubsfan0502]

 

O RLY?

 

on the cubs' side:

soto is way better than kendall

derosa at this point is a little better than weeks

ramirez is easily better than hall

 

on the brewers' side:

hardy is better than theriot

fielder is marginally better than lee

cameron is better than edmonds/johnson

braun is way better than whoever's playing left in soriano's absence

hart is probably slightly better than fukudome, but it's close

 

DeRosa is far better then Weeks. DeRo could have been an All-Star as far as I'm concerned.

 

Fatty is not better then Lee. Derrek has better numbers, is a FAR better defender and runs the bases 10x better.

 

Cameron? :eek:

[CoolHandLuke]

DeRo would have been an all star if he were a National, I bet.

[ChiCubsfan0502]

 

Oh, I wouldn't? My bad.

 

Check both teams offensive numbers and get back to me.

[Bruno7481]

The Cubs offense is better the Brewers WITHOUT Soriano.

 

O RLY?

 

on the cubs' side:

soto is way better than kendall

derosa at this point is a little better than weeks

ramirez is easily better than hall

 

on the brewers' side:

hardy is better than theriot

fielder is marginally better than lee

cameron is better than edmonds/johnson

braun is way better than whoever's playing left in soriano's absence

hart is probably slightly better than fukudome, but it's close

 

 

As far as (b) goes, that spot will be occupied by the Phillies or Mets.

 

the same mets that trail the brewers by either 5 or 6 games, pending the outcome of their game today? BP has the NL east at roughly a 10% chance of winning the wild card, so your confidence in this respect is unwarranted.

 

Soto>Kendall

Lee>Fielder

DeRosa>Weeks

Theriot

Ramirez>Hall

Hart

Edmonds/Johnson>Cameron, when Edmonds and Johnson are properly platooned vs RHPs/LHPs

Soriano

 

Yeah, because that is how you decide which team is better....

[Rusch33]

The Cubs offense is better the Brewers WITHOUT Soriano.

 

O RLY?

 

on the cubs' side:

soto is way better than kendall

derosa at this point is a little better than weeks

ramirez is easily better than hall

 

on the brewers' side:

hardy is better than theriot

fielder is marginally better than lee

cameron is better than edmonds/johnson

braun is way better than whoever's playing left in soriano's absence

hart is probably slightly better than fukudome, but it's close

 

 

As far as (b) goes, that spot will be occupied by the Phillies or Mets.

 

the same mets that trail the brewers by either 5 or 6 games, pending the outcome of their game today? BP has the NL east at roughly a 10% chance of winning the wild card, so your confidence in this respect is unwarranted.

 

I don't necessarily disagree with anything, but Mike Cameron over Edmonds/Johnson. I'm not so sure right now.

 

Cameron (52 games)

.232/.311/.500, 14 hrs with 33 rbis

 

Edmonds (w/Cubs): (38 games)

.276/.375/.552 8 hrs 24 rbis

 

Johnson:

.266/.336/.383 3 homers, 31 rbis

[Guancous]

I have an idea since the Indians are clearly in Nuke It All mode. How about we make an offer for Cliff Lee? Yeah, we'd be buying as high as possible but he's been a ground ball pitcher this year. He's due to regress a bit but he will probably end up in Ted Lilly range. I'd go to war in October with Zambrano/Cliff Lee/Lilly/Dempster.

[TruffleShuffle]

holy crap, weeks has been bad this year. ok derosa is easily better. i won't give lee the edge over fielder because fielder's VORP was 69 to lee's 48 last season, but i can see the argument that they're even.

 

and yes, everyone knows lee is a good defender and fielder is bad, but we were talking about offense. the original post was that the cubs are better offensively than the brewers even without soriano.

[XZero771679666304]

 

Oh, I wouldn't? My bad.

 

Check both teams offensive numbers and get back to me.

 

The two team have scored a similar number of runs, but Milwaukee has the edge in OPS. Other than that there's really not much to choose from.

[SouthSideRyan]

The thing is, if we're going to get Burnett or Harden, Hendry has to do it soon. We can't sit around for 3 weeks while CC is making 4-5 starts for Milwaukee. Ideally, landing one of Burnett/Harden by this time next week would be best, but we'll see what happens I guess.

 

Any GM would bend Hendry over the barrel if he forced a trade this week.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

drafting best player available is a shrewd move. everyone wondered what the hell the brewers were doing when they picked laporta, given the presence of braun and fielder, but look what they've turned him into. as an aside, that's another big reason why you pick wieters and not vitters last year.

 

 

That's not even close to a good comparison.

 

do explain. vitters is somewhat of a project whose trade value, if he pans out, is likely to be highest 3 years down the road when he's continued to hit well into AA. wieters is a known commodity who is likely to come in and destroy minor league pitching right away. wieters offers more trade value on the open market at this time, which is something that should be very important to a "built to win now" team like the cubs.

 

Admittedly, when I made the first post I was under the impression LaPorta wasn't drafted until the late teens, but the point still applies. Vitters v. Wieters was not a slam dunk case of BPA, and drafting guys because they'll have more trade value right away is a short-sighted way to go about things. We took like 20 straight college players after Vitters last year who would have trade value earlier than a high school guy, and not too many of them have dynamite trade value right now.

[17 Seconds]

The Cubs offense is better the Brewers WITHOUT Soriano.

 

O RLY?

 

on the cubs' side:

soto is way better than kendall

derosa at this point is a little better than weeks

ramirez is easily better than hall

 

on the brewers' side:

hardy is better than theriot

fielder is marginally better than lee

cameron is better than edmonds/johnson

braun is way better than whoever's playing left in soriano's absence

hart is probably slightly better than fukudome, but it's close

 

 

As far as (b) goes, that spot will be occupied by the Phillies or Mets.

 

the same mets that trail the brewers by either 5 or 6 games, pending the outcome of their game today? BP has the NL east at roughly a 10% chance of winning the wild card, so your confidence in this respect is unwarranted.

 

Soto>Kendall

Lee>Fielder

DeRosa>Weeks

Theriot

Ramirez>Hall

Hart

Edmonds/Johnson>Cameron, when Edmonds and Johnson are properly platooned vs RHPs/LHPs

Soriano

 

Hart has been better than Fukudome, and Soriano has been better than Braun.

 

Seriously, Braun hasn't been that good this year. He's slugging but his OBP is atrocious.

[ChiCubsfan0502]

 

and yes, everyone knows lee is a good defender and fielder is bad, but we were talking about offense. the original post was that the cubs are better offensively than the brewers even without soriano.

 

Lee has better numbers then Fielder pretty much across the board.

[Mizzou]

holy crap, weeks has been bad this year. ok derosa is easily better. i won't give lee the edge over fielder because fielder's VORP was 69 to lee's 48 last season, but i can see the argument that they're even.

 

and yes, everyone knows lee is a good defender and fielder is bad, but we were talking about offense. the original post was that the cubs are better offensively than the brewers even without soriano.

Who cares about last year? We're talking about this year. And Lee has clearly been better, offensively and defensively.

[TruffleShuffle]

Cameron (52 games)

.232/.311/.500, 14 hrs with 33 rbis

 

Edmonds (w/Cubs): (38 games)

.276/.375/.552 8 hrs 24 rbis

 

Johnson:

.266/.336/.383 3 homers, 31 rbis

 

i'm not really judging on this year; i'm judging on their expectations for the rest of this year. cameron is better than an edmonds/johnson platoon at this point. of course edmonds' numbers look good if you take out his horrid first month and a half in san diego, btw.

 

and for the "fukudome > hart" folks, you're seriously underestimating hart. he's a very good player. hart's EqA is .291; fukudome's is .286.

[XZero771679666304]

holy crap, weeks has been bad this year. ok derosa is easily better. i won't give lee the edge over fielder because fielder's VORP was 69 to lee's 48 last season, but i can see the argument that they're even.

 

and yes, everyone knows lee is a good defender and fielder is bad, but we were talking about offense. the original post was that the cubs are better offensively than the brewers even without soriano.

 

Lee has the edge in OPS and OPS+ this year.

[XZero771679666304]

 

and yes, everyone knows lee is a good defender and fielder is bad, but we were talking about offense. the original post was that the cubs are better offensively than the brewers even without soriano.

 

Lee has better numbers then Fielder pretty much across the board.

 

And that's with Lee having perhaps his worst stretch as a Cub mixed in.

[Exile on Waveland]

The Cubs offense is better the Brewers WITHOUT Soriano.

 

O RLY?

 

on the cubs' side:

soto is way better than kendall

derosa at this point is a little better than weeks

ramirez is easily better than hall

 

on the brewers' side:

hardy is better than theriot

fielder is marginally better than lee

cameron is better than edmonds/johnson

braun is way better than whoever's playing left in soriano's absence

hart is probably slightly better than fukudome, but it's close

 

 

As far as (b) goes, that spot will be occupied by the Phillies or Mets.

 

the same mets that trail the brewers by either 5 or 6 games, pending the outcome of their game today? BP has the NL east at roughly a 10% chance of winning the wild card, so your confidence in this respect is unwarranted.

 

I don't necessarily disagree with anything, but Mike Cameron over Edmonds/Johnson. I'm not so sure right now.

 

Cameron (52 games)

.232/.311/.500, 14 hrs with 33 rbis

 

Edmonds (w/Cubs): (38 games)

.276/.375/.552 8 hrs 24 rbis

 

Johnson:

.266/.336/.383 3 homers, 31 rbis

 

To this point, Edmonds with the Cubs (138 OPS+ in 116 AB's) has been superior to Cameron with the Brewers (110 OPS+ in 194 AB's). Color me skeptical on Edmonds, but he's been quite excellent for the Cubs.