CC Sabathia Traded to Brewers (for LaPorta + Prospects)

[ChiCubsfan0502]

 

Any GM would bend Hendry over the barrel if he forced a trade this week.

 

This post has me laughing out loud. I never would want to envision Hendry in a barrel.

[Guancous]

I'm sure Derrek Lee would be worse too if he stopped eating meat.

 

I'm more curious to see everyone break down the bullpens by individual players.

[TruffleShuffle]

holy crap, weeks has been bad this year. ok derosa is easily better. i won't give lee the edge over fielder because fielder's VORP was 69 to lee's 48 last season, but i can see the argument that they're even.

 

and yes, everyone knows lee is a good defender and fielder is bad, but we were talking about offense. the original post was that the cubs are better offensively than the brewers even without soriano.

Who cares about last year? We're talking about this year. And Lee has clearly been better, offensively and defensively.

 

ok well if we're evaluating teams like that, then ryan ludwick and aubrey huff are better than mark teixeira and miguel cabrera.

[Little Slide Rooter]

I have an idea since the Indians are clearly in Nuke It All mode. How about we make an offer for Cliff Lee? Yeah, we'd be buying as high as possible but he's been a ground ball pitcher this year. He's due to regress a bit but he will probably end up in Ted Lilly range. I'd go to war in October with Zambrano/Cliff Lee/Lilly/Dempster.

 

The Indians still have too much talent to "nuke it all". Cliff Lee is signed through 2009 with an option for 2010. If the Indians are in the same position this time next year, then maybe Cliff Lee will be moved, but not this year. CC was on his last year, and it was clear that they wouldnt be able to re sign him.

[VanceJergins]

 

Oh, I wouldn't? My bad.

 

Check both teams offensive numbers and get back to me.

 

This is me getting back to you. A whopping 9 more runs in half a season. That doesn't change my mind. Especially since Milwaukee has a higher OPS. I would bet on the Brewers having more runs by the end of the season.

[ChiCubsfan0502]

 

and yes, everyone knows lee is a good defender and fielder is bad, but we were talking about offense. the original post was that the cubs are better offensively than the brewers even without soriano.

 

Lee has better numbers then Fielder pretty much across the board.

 

And that's with Lee having perhaps his worst stretch as a Cub mixed in.

 

That, too.

[Little Slide Rooter]

The Cubs offense is better the Brewers WITHOUT Soriano.

 

O RLY?

 

on the cubs' side:

soto is way better than kendall

derosa at this point is a little better than weeks

ramirez is easily better than hall

 

on the brewers' side:

hardy is better than theriot

fielder is marginally better than lee

cameron is better than edmonds/johnson

braun is way better than whoever's playing left in soriano's absence

hart is probably slightly better than fukudome, but it's close

 

 

As far as (b) goes, that spot will be occupied by the Phillies or Mets.

 

the same mets that trail the brewers by either 5 or 6 games, pending the outcome of their game today? BP has the NL east at roughly a 10% chance of winning the wild card, so your confidence in this respect is unwarranted.

 

I don't necessarily disagree with anything, but Mike Cameron over Edmonds/Johnson. I'm not so sure right now.

 

Cameron (52 games)

.232/.311/.500, 14 hrs with 33 rbis

 

Edmonds (w/Cubs): (38 games)

.276/.375/.552 8 hrs 24 rbis

 

Johnson:

.266/.336/.383 3 homers, 31 rbis

 

To this point, Edmonds with the Cubs (138 OPS+ in 116 AB's) has been superior to Cameron with the Brewers (110 OPS+ in 194 AB's). Color me skeptical on Edmonds, but he's been quite excellent for the Cubs.

 

Johnson is great against LHP, but sucks against RHP, and Edmonds is the opposite. When Soriano returns, Edmonds and Johnson will be platooned that way.

[ChiCubsfan0502]

 

This is me getting back to you. A whopping 9 more runs in half a season. That doesn't change my mind. Especially since Milwaukee has a higher OPS. I would bet on the Brewers having more runs by the end of the season.

 

So, at worst the offense is a wash.

 

And the starters?

And the pen?

 

Mets and Mets. The Brewers aren't that good.

[XZero771679666304]

holy crap, weeks has been bad this year. ok derosa is easily better. i won't give lee the edge over fielder because fielder's VORP was 69 to lee's 48 last season, but i can see the argument that they're even.

 

and yes, everyone knows lee is a good defender and fielder is bad, but we were talking about offense. the original post was that the cubs are better offensively than the brewers even without soriano.

Who cares about last year? We're talking about this year. And Lee has clearly been better, offensively and defensively.

 

ok well if we're evaluating teams like that, then ryan ludwick and aubrey huff are better than mark teixeira and miguel cabrera.

 

I don't think Fielder's 2007 is necessarily indicative of what he will produce on a consistent basis. He's a fairly one dimensional hitter who could end up a lot like his father.

[TruffleShuffle]

 

and yes, everyone knows lee is a good defender and fielder is bad, but we were talking about offense. the original post was that the cubs are better offensively than the brewers even without soriano.

 

Lee has better numbers then Fielder pretty much across the board.

 

And that's with Lee having perhaps his worst stretch as a Cub mixed in.

 

That, too.

 

can we also take into account the fact that prince fielder played well below his expectations for the first month and a half?

[Rusch33]

I'm sure Derrek Lee would be worse too if he stopped eating meat.

 

I'm more curious to see everyone break down the bullpens by individual players.

 

Stat-wise, it's interesting. If the Brewers are just going to throw up Sabatha, and think that's enough, they're kidding themselves. They need some help Bullpen Wise.

From the 7th inning on.. (preferably mostly bullpen)..

 

ERA:

Cubs 3.61 (10th)

Brewers 4.64 (28th)

 

Hits

Cubs 246 (19th)

Brewers 253 (20th)

 

BB

Cubs 84 (3rd)

Brewers 123 (26th)

 

Ks

Cubs 245 (1st)

Brewers 215 (15th)

 

WHIP:

Cubs 1.25 (4th)

Brewers 1.48 (26th)

[Guancous]

I have an idea since the Indians are clearly in Nuke It All mode. How about we make an offer for Cliff Lee? Yeah, we'd be buying as high as possible but he's been a ground ball pitcher this year. He's due to regress a bit but he will probably end up in Ted Lilly range. I'd go to war in October with Zambrano/Cliff Lee/Lilly/Dempster.

 

The Indians still have too much talent to "nuke it all". Cliff Lee is signed through 2009 with an option for 2010. If the Indians are in the same position this time next year, then maybe Cliff Lee will be moved, but not this year. CC was on his last year, and it was clear that they wouldnt be able to re sign him.

 

Touche. I'd also be interested in Greinke if he's still on his meds. He probably wouldn't come cheaper than Burnett because of his low salary.

[VanceJergins]

 

This is me getting back to you. A whopping 9 more runs in half a season. That doesn't change my mind. Especially since Milwaukee has a higher OPS. I would bet on the Brewers having more runs by the end of the season.

 

So, at worst the offense is a wash.

 

And the starters?

And the pen?

 

Mets and Mets. The Brewers aren't that good.

 

I'd say they're similar teams. With the addition of Sabathia, I really doubt the Mets make up 5.5 games on them.

[ChiCubsfan0502]

holy crap, weeks has been bad this year. ok derosa is easily better. i won't give lee the edge over fielder because fielder's VORP was 69 to lee's 48 last season, but i can see the argument that they're even.

 

and yes, everyone knows lee is a good defender and fielder is bad, but we were talking about offense. the original post was that the cubs are better offensively than the brewers even without soriano.

Who cares about last year? We're talking about this year. And Lee has clearly been better, offensively and defensively.

 

ok well if we're evaluating teams like that, then ryan ludwick and aubrey huff are better than mark teixeira and miguel cabrera.

 

I don't think Fielder's 2007 is necessarily indicative of what he will produce on a consistent basis. He's a fairly one dimensional hitter who could end up a lot like his father.

 

I guess we can, but as Xzero pointed out, Fielder is like his Dad, or a Dave Kingman like hitter. He's all or nothing. If you are going player for player, Lee is a far better player then Fielder.

[TruffleShuffle]

 

This is me getting back to you. A whopping 9 more runs in half a season. That doesn't change my mind. Especially since Milwaukee has a higher OPS. I would bet on the Brewers having more runs by the end of the season.

 

So, at worst the offense is a wash.

 

And the starters?

And the pen?

 

Mets and Mets. The Brewers aren't that good.

 

hitter VORP this year: brewers 107.2, mets 99.9

pitcher VORP this year: brewers 85.5, mets 64.6

 

other than that your analysis is spot on.

 

and really, the fact that someone is arguing that the brewers' rotation - with sabathia - is inferior to the mets rotation... that kinda makes my brain explode.

[ChiCubsfan0502]

 

ERA:

Cubs 3.61 (10th)

Brewers 4.64 (28th)

 

Which is why they'll be watching the post season again this year like every one of the last 26 years. That pen gives new meaning to the name: "Gas can".

[USSoccer]

I'm way late to this, but what was the actual deal?

[TruffleShuffle]

I guess we can, but as Xzero pointed out, Fielder is like his Dad, or a Dave Kingman like hitter. He's all or nothing. If you are going player for player, Lee is a far better player then Fielder.

 

](*,)

 

dave kingman: 608 BB, 1816 K in 7429 PAs. (8.1% walk rate, 24.4% strikeout rate). career OBP: .302

prince fielder: 190 BB, 327 K in 1759 PAs (10.8% walk rate, 18.5% strikeout rate). career OBP: .366

[XZero771679666304]

holy crap, weeks has been bad this year. ok derosa is easily better. i won't give lee the edge over fielder because fielder's VORP was 69 to lee's 48 last season, but i can see the argument that they're even.

 

and yes, everyone knows lee is a good defender and fielder is bad, but we were talking about offense. the original post was that the cubs are better offensively than the brewers even without soriano.

Who cares about last year? We're talking about this year. And Lee has clearly been better, offensively and defensively.

 

ok well if we're evaluating teams like that, then ryan ludwick and aubrey huff are better than mark teixeira and miguel cabrera.

 

I don't think Fielder's 2007 is necessarily indicative of what he will produce on a consistent basis. He's a fairly one dimensional hitter who could end up a lot like his father.

 

I guess we can, but as Xzero pointed out, Fielder is like his Dad, or a Dave Kingman like hitter. He's all or nothing. If you are going player for player, Lee is a far better player then Fielder.

 

 

I'm not sure Prince = Kingman, but I think there is a decent chance 2007 will end up being Prince's best season.

[Rusch33]

I'm way late to this, but what was the actual deal?

 

All they've said is that LaPorta is in, that's it.

[ChiCubsfan0502]

 

This is me getting back to you. A whopping 9 more runs in half a season. That doesn't change my mind. Especially since Milwaukee has a higher OPS. I would bet on the Brewers having more runs by the end of the season.

 

So, at worst the offense is a wash.

 

And the starters?

And the pen?

 

Mets and Mets. The Brewers aren't that good.

 

hitter VORP this year: brewers 107.2, mets 99.9

pitcher VORP this year: brewers 85.5, mets 64.6

 

other than that your analysis is spot on.

 

and really, the fact that someone is arguing that the brewers' rotation - with sabathia - is inferior to the mets rotation... that kinda makes my brain explode.

 

Not inferior and not much better, if at all. Again, the Brewers will be home again starting in October because of their pen. You can look at 2007 as case and point and it's just as bad this year, actually worse.

[RonnieWooWooSanto]

I'm way late to this, but what was the actual deal?

 

Yes. Once the medicals are taken care of.

[Guancous]

and really, the fact that someone is arguing that the brewers' rotation - with sabathia - is inferior to the mets rotation... that kinda makes my brain explode.

 

Oh yeah?

 

2001 Pedro Martinez > 2008 C.C. Sabathia

2004 Johan Santana > 2008 Ben Sheets

2004 Oliver Perez > 2008 Jeff Suppan

2007 John Maine > 2008 Manny Parra

2008 Mike Pelfrey > 2008 Dave Bush

 

It's quite clear to me.

[Joe_Cub]

I'm way late to this, but what was the actual deal?

 

ESPN: Cleveland would get Double-A outfielder Matt LaPorta, who is hitting .288 with 20 homers and 66 RBIs in 84 games for Huntsville, and others. The other players do not include top prospects Alcides Escobar or Mat Gamel, according to the Journal Sentinel.

[USSoccer]

I'm way late to this, but what was the actual deal?

 

All they've said is that LaPorta is in, that's it.

 

Well...we all knew that Milwaukee had the ammo to outbid us if they felt like doing so.

 

This is what happens when your minor league system struggles for an extended period of time.