CC Sabathia Traded to Brewers (for LaPorta + Prospects)

[98navigator]

One of the comments from that blog:

the cubs suck

Wow.

 

So the Cubs suck because they were actually relevant for 25 years while the Brewers stockpiled young talent?

 

You might want to avoid Brewers blogs for a few days. Let them have their fun. It is kinda pathetic because if the Cubs hand landed CC I don't think anyone on here would be commenting on how the Brewers suck but who cares? They're ecstatic because of the trade but it isn't a guarantee of anything (the Mets looked great on paper after getting Santana too and they have either not scored enough runs for him or their bullpen has blow his games).

[Little Slide Rooter]

One of the comments from that blog:

the cubs suck

Wow.

 

So the Cubs suck because they were actually relevant for 25 years while the Brewers stockpiled young talent?

 

You might want to avoid Brewers blogs for a few days. Let them have their fun. It is kinda pathetic because if the Cubs hand landed CC I don't think anyone on here would be commenting on how the Brewers suck but who cares? They're ecstatic because of the trade but it isn't a guarantee of anything (the Mets looked great on paper after getting Santana too and they have either not scored enough runs for him or their bullpen has blow his games).

 

The Brewers traded for Sabathia, so in turn, the Cubs must suck. Logic at it's finest.

[Outshined_One]

The only thing that really bothers me about this trade is that the Brewers still have a number of good trade chips in Gamel, Salome, Escobar, and Gillespie. That's plenty for them to go out and get another SP, if not help for their bullpen.

 

If this is the only move they're making, I'm a bit worried about them. If they go out and somehow manage to get another top-flight starter or shutdown reliever, I'm much more worried.

[abuck1220]

this trade provides us the perfect opportunity to stop whining about/cutting and pasting ridiculous things posted by cardinal/white sox fans and double up our effort in doing the same for brewer fans.

[98navigator]

The Cubs came out hot with most of their players overproducing, the Brewers came out cold with a lot of players slumping. Since about mid May the two teams have produced at about the same level. The Cubs talent level wasn't higher than ours entering the season in my opinion. Gallardo going down hurt more than Soriano so right now we probably are a tad behind them in talent but if we trade for Sabathia it is back even.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

Ennder wrote that, I read it earlier this afternoon, and I still don't buy it.

[rocket]

I visited brewerfan.net and somebody there is printing up t-shirts to celebrate this trade. Seriously. :scratch: ](*,)

 

if the cubs just traded for one of the top 5 or so pitchers in baseball, i'd not only print up t-shirts but i'd make an oath to have my future kid's first and middle initial be c's so i can honor him forever.

:hello:

 

hi

[JimSorgi]

this trade provides us the perfect opportunity to stop whining about/cutting and pasting ridiculous things posted by cardinal/white sox fans and double up our effort in doing the same for brewer fans.

I know. It's so ridiculous for them to hate the Cubs!

[YearofDaCubs]

Great gamble by the Brewers. I would have loved to see the Cubs get Sabathia, but Hendry is not the type of guy to mortgage the farm system for one player. He is more of the bargain basement trade shopper. The big trades that he has been able to pull off, seem to always having the Cubs giving up fringe guys like Bobby Hill, Matt Bruback, Mitre, B. Harris, etc.

What farm system? I have no doubt Hendry would mortgage the future even for one player but the fact is our farm sucks.

[bannor10]

Great gamble by the Brewers. I would have loved to see the Cubs get Sabathia, but Hendry is not the type of guy to mortgage the farm system for one player. He is more of the bargain basement trade shopper. The big trades that he has been able to pull off, seem to always having the Cubs giving up fringe guys like Bobby Hill, Matt Bruback, Mitre, B. Harris, etc.

 

that because the system is filled with fringe players...From Grace to Soto...The Cubs have had a horrible time drafting / developing position players...

[SouthSideRyan]

Great gamble by the Brewers. I would have loved to see the Cubs get Sabathia, but Hendry is not the type of guy to mortgage the farm system for one player. He is more of the bargain basement trade shopper. The big trades that he has been able to pull off, seem to always having the Cubs giving up fringe guys like Bobby Hill, Matt Bruback, Mitre, B. Harris, etc.

 

Hee Seop Choi and Justin Jones were both really good prospects when dealt. Pinto and Nolasco were pretty good. Hill and Harris weren't fringe.

[Ender]

I think you are getting a bit ahead of yourself. Gallardo slots into Sheets spot next year and the rest of the Brewer team is still around next year except maybe Cameron and some bench guys. There is no reason that they should tank next year or be selling Fielder at the deadline. Gallardo, Parra are both high potential pitchers and they'll still need a true #3 or better pitcher to slot in the middle but the team is hardly going to be terrible next year because of Sheets leaving.

 

They also had a heavy draft this year and have a pretty stocked minor league system even without LaPorta so I think the team is built to be competitive until at least 2015. Maybe not dominant but at least in the playoff picture.

 

 

They'll be good b/c of the core of the offense, but to assume that Gallardo and Parra will equate or come close to Sheets and 14 starts of Sabathia in a playoff push isn't fair as well as needing to overall the pen (again).

 

I'm not assuming they will replace Sabathia, I'm saying that if both of those pitchers walk the team won't be significantly worse than they have been so far this season. They are still a .500+ team assuming Gallardo and Parra stay healthy and assuming the team picks up a #3 or better starter from somewhere. There is no gaurantee they both walk either, Mark A said they could afford a top flight pitcher if the right deal came along and they lose the $10M waste that is Gagne next year. Those factors combine means there is probably enough money to sign an ace if they right deal is there or at least a top end SP of some type regardless, even if it is a #3 type guy.

 

That also doesn't mean Parra is a #2, he has a 2.77 ERA and a .678 OPS against in his last 11 starts and a minor league record that suggest at least #3 upside. Gallardo has true ace potential and Parra sits in the #2/#3 potential area. Another #3 or better arm sets them up to be competitive. Like I said maybe not a powerhouse but certainly a team that sits around the playoff picture. Not a team that is selling off Fielder mid season and playing for 2012 like the post I quoted suggested.

Edited July 7, 2008 by Ender

[TruffleShuffle]

he'll probably make 15 starts this year. acquiring him is basically replacing either bush or mcclung in the rotation. sabathia is probably worth about 9 wins a year over a replacement-level pitcher; bush and mcclung are probably worth around half that. take out roughly half the season, and sabathia is going to be worth an extra 2-3 wins this season for the brewers. certainly an upgrade, but this isn't a devastating move or something that makes them the favorite in the division. probably the biggest impact will come if sabathia and sheets are both healthy and effective in october, which - given abuse and health histories - is far from a guarantee.

[Vanilla Ice]

Calling the Cubs relevant for 25 years is some serious revisionist history. They were relevant for far less than half of those.

 

1984, 1989, 1998, 2001, 2003, 2004, 2007, 2008. so 8 of the past 25 years.

 

if it doesnt happen

im blaming you

[Sosa21MVP]

I visited brewerfan.net and somebody there is printing up t-shirts to celebrate this trade. Seriously. :scratch: ](*,)

 

if the cubs just traded for one of the top 5 or so pitchers in baseball, i'd not only print up t-shirts but i'd make an oath to have my future kid's first and middle initial be c's so i can honor him forever.

:hello:

 

hi

 

I will admit that if I had a child during the summer of 2004 I may have named him Nomar but now I'd just wait to make sure I was using a winning name. lol

[Sosa21MVP]

Great gamble by the Brewers. I would have loved to see the Cubs get Sabathia, but Hendry is not the type of guy to mortgage the farm system for one player. He is more of the bargain basement trade shopper. The big trades that he has been able to pull off, seem to always having the Cubs giving up fringe guys like Bobby Hill, Matt Bruback, Mitre, B. Harris, etc.

 

that because the system is filled with fringe players...From Grace to Soto...The Cubs have had a horrible time drafting / developing position players...

 

Obviously you are overlooking the great Gary Scott and Ty Griffin.

[Ender]

he'll probably make 15 starts this year. acquiring him is basically replacing either bush or mcclung in the rotation. sabathia is probably worth about 9 wins a year over a replacement-level pitcher; bush and mcclung are probably worth around half that. take out roughly half the season, and sabathia is going to be worth an extra 2-3 wins this season for the brewers. certainly an upgrade, but this isn't a devastating move or something that makes them the favorite in the division. probably the biggest impact will come if sabathia and sheets are both healthy and effective in october, which - given abuse and health histories - is far from a guarantee.

 

Yeah I agree with that, 2-3 wins is a pretty big jump in playoff probability though especially for the wild card scenarios. It also helps them hide the team weakness of the bullpen a little bit since Sabathia is a horse and Bush is um, not so much. It probably jumps their chances of a playoff series win by a good 10% if they do make the playoffs as well.

 

The final thing it does is it means if Sabathia or Sheets goes down the wild card race isn't over for the team. They can limp into a 1 series and out wild card playoff appearance with just 1 of those guys. If they don't make the trade and Sheets goes down it is over.

[TruffleShuffle]

I think you are getting a bit ahead of yourself. Gallardo slots into Sheets spot next year and the rest of the Brewer team is still around next year except maybe Cameron and some bench guys. There is no reason that they should tank next year or be selling Fielder at the deadline. Gallardo, Parra are both high potential pitchers and they'll still need a true #3 or better pitcher to slot in the middle but the team is hardly going to be terrible next year because of Sheets leaving.

 

They also had a heavy draft this year and have a pretty stocked minor league system even without LaPorta so I think the team is built to be competitive until at least 2015. Maybe not dominant but at least in the playoff picture.

 

 

They'll be good b/c of the core of the offense, but to assume that Gallardo and Parra will equate or come close to Sheets and 14 starts of Sabathia in a playoff push isn't fair as well as needing to overall the pen (again).

 

I'm not assuming they will replace Sabathia, I'm saying that if both of those pitchers walk the team won't be significantly worse than they have been so far this season. They are still a .500+ team assuming Gallardo and Parra stay healthy and assuming the team picks up a #3 or better starter from somewhere.

 

That also doesn't mean Parra is a #2. Gallardo has true ace potential and Parra sits in the #2/#3 potential area. Another #3 or better arm sets them up to be competitive. Like I said maybe not a powerhouse but certainly a team that sits around the playoff picture. Not a team that is selling off Fielder mid season and playing for 2012 like the post I quoted suggested.

 

you're probably overrating each of them by a spot. gallardo's ceiling is a good #2 or a #1 on a lousy team, and parra's ceiling is a #3. parra has given up nearly a hit per inning in the minors and his WHIP this year is 1.5... he's not as good as his ERA would suggest. and parra has the ben sheets bug when it comes to health, which have to be factored into his future expectations.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Sabathia is definitely worth being excited about. He doesn't make a HUGE difference for the regular season, but he's a clear upgrade that can have ancillary benefits, and he does make a HUGE difference for the playoffs if the Brewers make it there.

 

This doesn't make a HUGE difference as far as the Cubs are concerned. For one, both teams can make the playoffs rather easily, so even if Sabathia propels the Brewers to 110 wins by starting every 5 days and putting up 2001 Bonds numbers with gold glove defense at 3B the other 4 days, the Cubs can still make the playoffs comfortably by beating out the Cardinals. Secondly, as it pertains to the Brewers overtaking the Cubs, the Brewers fans in general seem to be overestimating their true level of play. While it's true that the Cubs started white hot and the Brewer offense stumbled, there's not a ton of proven performance for the Brewers offense to be sure they'll return to. All of Fielder, Weeks, Braun, Hardy, and Hart only have one previous season of above average performance. That's not to say that they're all one year wonders, that'd be ridiculous, but the level of certainty that they'll return to that level is significantly lower than players with the history of Soriano, Ramirez, Lee, and to a lesser extent DeRosa. Also, while the Brewers have closed the gap on the Cubs, they haven't really shown they're up to the Cubs level in terms of run differential. At the Brewers lowest point, they had a -26 differential while the Cubs were +79. After today, the Brewers are +11 while the Cubs are now +102.

 

That was way too much text, but the short of it is this. Sabathia improves the Brewers(especially for the playoffs), but not enough to put them on par with the Cubs, especially since they are a bit overdue to fall further behind anyway.

[Ender]

I disagree on the Gallardo thing but that is just opinion, other than 1 game in Colorado his rookie year he has been a #1 since he hit the big leagues and his minor league numbers were about as good as you can get. Parra's upside is #2 but it won't surprise me if he ends up a #3 so I won't quibble with that one. Remember lefties mature late and Parra has had injury issues limiting his stats some. Just because I say he has #2 potential doesn't mean he will be a #2 next year or anything. But Gallardo, Parra and say a high 3 to low 4 ERA type starter via FA will keep them over .500 with the offense.

 

I just don't see them dumping Fielder mid season next year and playing for 2012.

 

That was way too much text, but the short of it is this. Sabathia improves the Brewers(especially for the playoffs), but not enough to put them on par with the Cubs, especially since they are a bit overdue to fall further behind anyway

 

It is however close enough that it is plausible for the Brewers to take the division. Any team can get on that hot streak and play over their heads for a bit and the Brewers schedule is very friendly in the 2nd half, they already went through their toughest patch by far. My guess is the division comes down to the H2H games more than anything. If the Cubs take care of business in those games they take the division. If they falter and the Brewers take more of those games than they should then things will be close.

[TruffleShuffle]

i know people are gonna go overboard on the brewers 1-2 punch now, but you can't just look at 2 pitchers who have pitched great heading into the playoffs and assume it will continue. remember, sheets is #1 in PAPs and he's likely to be ridden hard by yost the rest of the way - he's on pace to throw about as many innings as he threw the last two years combined. sabathia is #5 in PAPs and is coming off a year in which he threw almost 260 innings. everyone looked at sabathia and carmona on the indians and figured that they would be a monster 1-2 in the playoffs, but sabathia was gassed (he's not the fittest guy in the world) and the huge leap in workload also took a clear toll on carmona.

[brewersbrewers]

Brewer fans don't hate the cubs, they hate cubs fans there. Yes we are excited about this and why shouldn't we. I have a friend in the brewer ticket office, tomorrow he was supposed to off but they are calling in everyone who works in the ticket office tomorrow, he was told between 6 and 830pm they sold 3500 tickets to tuesday night game and are expecting to be sold out in the late morning along with the rest off the homestand, thought that was kind of neat, best of luck to the cubs the rest of the year, it should be fun for both teams.

[Soul]

Well, the Wild Card is so likely to come from the Central IMO, I'm not worried about the playoffs. But the division title -- this move definitely muddies the waters a bit for us. The Crew is a good ballclub.

 

They're still in good shape prospect-wise since their minors are loaded. This is what grieves me the most. I'm full-on jealous of other clubs' minor systems, and disappointed in our own. Someone's dropping the ball with our drafting/development, and if we don't fix it we're going to find ourselves either 1) spending way too much to remain competitive, or 2) simply not competitive at all in future seasons.

[Exile on Waveland]

Calling the Cubs relevant for 25 years is some serious revisionist history. They were relevant for far less than half of those.

 

1984, 1989, 1998, 2001, 2003, 2004, 2007, 2008. so 8 of the past 25 years.

 

if it doesnt happen

im blaming you

 

If what doesn't happen? They've already achieved relevance.

[Oscar Zamora]

So the Brewers landed C.C. Sabathia...big deal? The Cubs will still win the division. Mark it down! It will happen and I honestly believe we might even win it all in 2008. And I don't think C.C. will end up signing with Milwaukee after the season --the Cubs will.

[TruffleShuffle]

So the Brewers landed C.C. Sabathia...big deal? The Cubs will still win the division. Mark it down! It will happen and I honestly believe we might even win it all in 2008. And I don't think C.C. will end up signing with Milwaukee after the season --the Cubs will.

 

the cubs will end up signing with milwaukee? that'd be crazy.