Cubs Acquire Garza for Archer, Lee, Guyer, Chirinos & Fuld

[JonJayCutler]

I didn't even realize that we now have Koyie Hill back for sure. :banghead: Now I hate this freaking trade.

 

Wellington Castillo > Koyie Hill.

[dew1679666265]

I didn't even realize that we now have Koyie Hill back for sure. :banghead: Now I hate this freaking trade.

 

We still have Wellington Castillo ready to come to the majors.

[daske17]

I didn't even realize that we now have Koyie Hill back for sure. :banghead: Now I hate this freaking trade.

 

Isn't Welington Castillo considered back-up material?

[Sammy Sofa]

 

Who cares about Guyer?

 

Yes.

 

Quite a few people.

[UK1679666180]

Fangraphs' Dave Cameron compares Garza to a younger Aaron Harang:

 

Garza is younger, he throws harder, and he’s posted significantly better ERAs over the last several years in the more challenging league, so I understand why the perception of a large gap is there. But the reality is that these two are similar pitchers, and while one of them signed a one year, $4 million contract as a free agent this winter, the other is apparently going to cost a king’s ransom to acquire in trade, and then will earn more than that through arbitration anyway.

 

If the Cubs look at Garza’s ERA and think he’s a potential ace in the NL, they’re mistaken. He’s a valuable innings eater, but he’s not a front line starter, and there were much cheaper, easier ways to acquire this kind of pitcher this winter without punting a big part of the farm system.

 

He includes stats in the article as well.

 

They're different styles of pitchers, diff stages of career, different ceilings. Comparing a finesse pitcher with a power pitcher in any comparison becomes void given the stage of Garza's career . I love this trade for the Cubs.

[illiniguy]

I didn't even realize that we now have Koyie Hill back for sure. :banghead: Now I hate this freaking trade.

 

We still have Wellington Castillo ready to come to the majors.

You guys realize that we platooned Koyie Hill with Geo Soto right? No way is Wellington Castillo gonna stay in Koyie's way.

[ScrubMD]

I disagree. I think you over value our prospects just a tad. Yes, our system is on the up tick, but still not devastatingly potent. If Kansas city were to give up the same ranked prospects within their system, then I would be peed off and breaking things. We did a 5 for 3, and greatly improved our rotation in the process. The biggest point of this trade working for us is found in our system still retaining its best young players.

 

The evaluation of our prospects if pretty much the consensus of the "experts", not just some random Cubs fan.

[ThePenguin11]

I'm sure I'm in the minority here, but I'm done giving a good g*d damn what the Cubs give up in trades. I'm sick and tired of this team sucking to high heaven and stopped watching this piece of crap in May last season. Archer, Li, whatever. It's all ChoiHillKeltonPieCedeno blahblahblah. Who the hell cares? I want to see this team competitive. A major market team should be able to improve it's roster by making trades as well as building within. The division is easy enough to compete in so you might as well roll dice and try and get into the playoffs, since the numbers bear out that it's anyone's game in October/November. I'm all for this because I'd like to start watching Cubs games that matter again.

[David]

By the way, is 3 years of Garza equal to 2 years of Greinke? The packages given up are fairly close, as far as amount of talent given up goes.

 

 

Take this for what you will... Levine (and I don't know how exactly he would know this) claims that Hendry values Garza higher than Greinke.... :-k

[Guest]

By the way, is 3 years of Garza equal to 2 years of Greinke? The packages given up are fairly close, as far as amount of talent given up goes.

 

I think Greinke probably comes out a little ahead, but he also has 26 million guaranteed, and the only way Garza will get that is if he overperforms and then his value is greater anyway.

[Z38Cubs]

Some guy on facebook:

 

Horrible friggin trade. we gave up

1. nearly .300 hitter ( Fuld)

2. Pitcher of the year in cubs minors (2.34 ERA)

3.And of Player of year in cubs minors who bats ..344.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME. IM SO PISSED.

 

 

Getting a good laugh out of this.

 

"They went from a 70 win team to maybe an 80 win team. That's it. And if for some reason they miraculously win the division, you guys honestly think they're getting past Philly or SF?!? It still doesn't take away the fact they can't hit for [expletive]. You have two automatic outs in Soriano and Fukudome. Stupid freaking trade. All this does is save face for Hendry so he can get his extension. Horrible."

 

I love the facebook comments.

[italianocubsfan7]

Some guy on facebook:

 

Horrible friggin trade. we gave up

1. nearly .300 hitter ( Fuld)

2. Pitcher of the year in cubs minors (2.34 ERA)

3.And of Player of year in cubs minors who bats ..344.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME. IM SO PISSED.

 

 

Getting a good laugh out of this.

 

Gotta love it...

[dew1679666265]

I didn't even realize that we now have Koyie Hill back for sure. :banghead: Now I hate this freaking trade.

 

We still have Wellington Castillo ready to come to the majors.

You guys realize that we platooned Koyie Hill with Geo Soto right? No way is Wellington Castillo gonna stay in Koyie's way.

 

Then why are you stating that this means Hill is back for sure? I doubt Chirinos is regarded that much more highly than Castillo and if Hill is guaranteed a spot with Castillo still around, he probably was with Chirinos around as well.

[CubColtPacer]

I didn't even realize that we now have Koyie Hill back for sure. :banghead: Now I hate this freaking trade.

 

We still have Wellington Castillo ready to come to the majors.

You guys realize that we platooned Koyie Hill with Geo Soto right? No way is Wellington Castillo gonna stay in Koyie's way.

 

First, that was a different manager. Second, the Cubs liked Castillo better than Chirinos so if they weren't going to dump Hill for Castillo they weren't going to do it for Chirinos.

[illiniguy]

I didn't even realize that we now have Koyie Hill back for sure. :banghead: Now I hate this freaking trade.

 

We still have Wellington Castillo ready to come to the majors.

You guys realize that we platooned Koyie Hill with Geo Soto right? No way is Wellington Castillo gonna stay in Koyie's way.

 

Then why are you stating that this means Hill is back for sure? I doubt Chirinos is regarded that much more highly than Castillo and if Hill is guaranteed a spot with Castillo still around, he probably was with Chirinos around as well.

True. I guess I thought with two of them there we would then take the better of those two. Now I assume we will get to spring training and Koyie will win Mike Quade's heart since he will be given a chance to.

[ctcf]

I'm not that thrilled about the trade but also don't feel like making a hard line "like it/hate it" pronouncement. This is really one that can't be judged at the moment.

 

On one hand, I was a big Archer fan and was somewhat confident that he'd work out as a middle of the rotation guy leaning towards the top half. I've never been the biggest Lee fan myself and who cares about Chirinos. One other problem for me is that I actually quite liked Guyer and I really don't think Colvin is going to finish this year as a worthwhile player and it have been nice to have a little depth there in the outfield.

 

On the other, we kept the Jacksons and McNutt and I think Garza's numbers will improve in the NL central. Also, he's rocking at least a half-Clement. Awesome.

[Sammy Sofa]

I'm sure I'm in the minority here, but I'm done giving a good g*d damn what the Cubs give up in trades. I'm sick and tired of this team sucking to high heaven and stopped watching this piece of crap in May last season. Archer, Li, whatever. It's all ChoiHillKeltonPieCedeno blahblahblah. Who the hell cares? I want to see this team competitive. A major market team should be able to improve it's roster by making trades as well as building within. The division is easy enough to compete in so you might as well roll dice and try and get into the playoffs, since the numbers bear out that it's anyone's game in October/November. I'm all for this because I'd like to start watching Cubs games that matter again.

 

You'll probably stop watching in May again unless Garza can also club the hell out of the ball.

[Guest]

Bruce Miles is saying that the OF we're getting back is Fernando Perez. 27 years old(28 in April), switch hitter. Seems like a different Fuld from the numbers.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Some guy on facebook:

 

Horrible friggin trade. we gave up

1. nearly .300 hitter ( Fuld)

2. Pitcher of the year in cubs minors (2.34 ERA)

3.And of Player of year in cubs minors who bats ..344.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME. IM SO PISSED.

 

 

Getting a good laugh out of this.

 

Gotta love it...

 

So we gave up 3 of our top 10 prospects and you give a [expletive] about Sam Fuld?

 

What this deal basically does is puts makes us a distant 4th place team to a 4th place team.

[David]

Some guy on facebook:

 

Horrible friggin trade. we gave up

1. nearly .300 hitter ( Fuld)

2. Pitcher of the year in cubs minors (2.34 ERA)

3.And of Player of year in cubs minors who bats ..344.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME. IM SO PISSED.

 

 

Getting a good laugh out of this.

 

 

Told you guys someone was making that Fuld post.

Edited January 7, 2011 by David

[SouthSideRyan]

I didn't even realize that we now have Koyie Hill back for sure. :banghead: Now I hate this freaking trade.

 

We probably will, but Castillo was always going to have the edge over Chirinos for the backup spot.

[dew1679666265]

They're different styles of pitchers, diff stages of career, different ceilings. Comparing a finesse pitcher with a power pitcher in any comparison becomes void given the stage of Garza's career . I love this trade for the Cubs.

 

Here are some of the numbers he used:

 

Garza: 3.05 BB/9, 7.1 K/9, 1.09 HR/9, 38.9% GB%, 4.39 xFIP

Harang: 2.57 BB/9, 7.4 K/9, 1.47 HR/9, 35.1% GB%, 4.21 xFIP

 

He adjusted them for league, as well. Garza may have a high ceiling, but if you put any stock into xFIP, he's been pretty underwhelming in three full seasons in the majors. I know he might get a positive boost for switching leagues, but he'll likely get a negative bump for having a much worse defense behind him.

 

Unless Hendry and his scouts are convinced he'll continue to outpitch his xFIP by a decent amount, there was no reason to give up Archer. Even if he does, I don't think you give up Archer.

[CubColtPacer]

The fact we're not hearing names on their end make me think we're not getting much back.

 

Definitely agreed on that. The Cubs are likely getting back a low minors live arm and somebody like Fuld who is not on a 40 man roster yet.

 

I don't hate the deal but I'm not a fan of it either. The Cubs did manage to give up players who didn't have much of a future with them. Guyer and Chirinos were both blocked. Lee's value took a hit with Castro being there. Archer was a prime candidate to be switched to a reliever when he made the big league club (even if that wasn't necessarily the smartest move at the time). And getting rid of Fuld for any value is good at this point with his options situation. And of course since the Cubs traded them it's likely there's something wrong with at least 1-2 of these prospects that we don't know about yet. The Cubs did also clear 40 man space. So while they gave up a lot in talent they simply weren't worth as much to the Cubs.

 

The key is going to be Garza and if he takes the next step in the NL. If he can bump that strikeout rate a little bit up and be a 200 inning pitcher he'll be a valuable asset to have. It does make me wonder if the Cubs took the prospects they were trying to get rid of in the Gonzalez trade and shifted them to Garza because they knew the values of most of the players in this deal were likely to go down next year.

[bcl412]

I'm mixed on this trade. I'm ok with Garza, I'd think he could be fairly good not pitching in the AL East anymore and while I love the way Lee plays defense I'm fairly meh on his offensive upside myself. I'll admit I don't know too much about Archer so I won't comment on that one.

 

On the other hand I'm not really a fan of trading decent/good prospects for an improvement that still probably won't make much of a difference in you being a playoff team or not.

[Z38Cubs]

Here's another good facebook Fuld comment.

 

Fuld is a Soriano decision going from bad to worse -- Hendry not giving a minor leaguer a chance because he has to WIN NOW. You watch - Sam Fuld is going to be a productive player for the Rays.