Cubs Acquire Garza for Archer, Lee, Guyer, Chirinos & Fuld

[Guest]

Just tried skimming the thread a bit. Did the Cubs just trade Chris Archer, Hak-Ju Lee, Brandon Guyer. Robinson Chirinos and Sam Fuld for Matt Garza?

 

 

And some poet named Perez!!!!!! And some other guy who's not significant, but hasn't been named yet either.

 

But yes. It's a deal.

 

So that's BA's #1, #4, #10 and #16 prospects in our system (a top 8 system before the trade). For Matt Garza.

[fromthestretch]

We always hear people complain that we don't trade our prospects when their perceived value is at its highest. Archer and Guyer's stock isn't going to get any higher unless they are tearing it up at the major league level. They were both the Cubs minor league players of the year and had really nice years. Probably years that both will not be able to repeat this year.

 

So trade them for a better player or one that better addresses the team's needs. Selling high is fine.

 

That seems to be the point that some people are missing. No one is saying the Cubs can not or should not trade off valued prospects. It just sucks when they bundle that much value into a trade for Matt Garza of all people.

[erik316wttn]

I just heard who the OF was coming our way. Cripes, that dude stinks. Why is he even in baseball? You really couldn't have wrangled someone with any sort of ceiling whatsoever, Jim? Really?

[illiniguy]

Just tried skimming the thread a bit. Did the Cubs just trade Chris Archer, Hak-Ju Lee, Brandon Guyer. Robinson Chirinos and Sam Fuld for Matt Garza?

 

 

And some poet named Perez!!!!!! And some other guy who's not significant, but hasn't been named yet either.

 

But yes. It's a deal.

 

So that's BA's #1, #4, #10 and #16 prospects in our system (a top 8 system before the trade). For Matt Garza.

Kinda makes you wish that Hendry didn't have that lifetime contract, huh?

[erik316wttn]

I've gone on record saying I've wanted Garza, but only if the price wasn't too high.

 

Not only is the price too high, I think the Tampa GM ought to be arrested and put in jail for rape.

[javy knows my name]

I was really hoping for good news on the prospects coming back.

 

I hate this trade now

[sneakypower]

including Archer on top of the rest of that package is completely indefensible

 

sigh, at least it's for a pitcher i like

[Guancous]

We always hear people complain that we don't trade our prospects when their perceived value is at its highest. Archer and Guyer's stock isn't going to get any higher unless they are tearing it up at the major league level. They were both the Cubs minor league players of the year and had really nice years. Probably years that both will not be able to repeat this year.

 

So trade them for a better player or one that better addresses the team's needs. Selling high is fine.

 

That seems to be the point that some people are missing. No one is saying the Cubs can not or should not trade off valued prospects. It just sucks when they bundle that much value into a trade for Matt Garza of all people.

 

I like Garza (certainly better than some scrub options floated earlier this winter) but starting pitching should not have been the main priority. Imagine the 1B this haul could have netted.

 

That said, Garza is better than any free agent pitcher making $10 million in this market. Even his arbitration years should be palatable.

[Little Slide Rooter]

someone break down the prospecty-ness of the people we gave up.

 

 

We gave up an Ichiro, a right-handed Dontrelle Willis, a Bengie Molina, and a guy that will be great for team chemistry and plays the right way.

 

You mean a healthy Kaz Matsui. That's not an insult.

 

Dont forget an untouchable spark.

[soonercub]

Another thing I like about Garza (just watched his highlights on MLB.tv. He has playoff experience.

 

Some big keys to the season.

1. Which Z will we get? Hopefully the end of 2010 version.

2. Can Ramirez stay healthy and have at least one of his average years.

3. Can Colvin sustain the power and improve discipline.

4. Can Kerry stay healthy.

5. Can Cashner start effectively.

 

 

I think Castro's defense will improve. Pena will rebound and at least be as effective as DLee last year. Marmol will be Marmol (the right handed version of Mitch Williams). Byrd and Soto should be steady and consistent. Soriano should be able to reproduce last year and then we have one less year of him!

[Guest]

Just tried skimming the thread a bit. Did the Cubs just trade Chris Archer, Hak-Ju Lee, Brandon Guyer. Robinson Chirinos and Sam Fuld for Matt Garza?

 

 

And some poet named Perez!!!!!! And some other guy who's not significant, but hasn't been named yet either.

 

But yes. It's a deal.

 

So that's BA's #1, #4, #10 and #16 prospects in our system (a top 8 system before the trade). For Matt Garza.

Kinda makes you wish that Hendry didn't have that lifetime contract, huh?

 

It's what happens when you have a GM who fears for his job safety and is doing everything he can to save his job.

[erik316wttn]

I think Hendry has officially worn out his "At least he's good at making trades" defense. There is no reason at all, NONE, that this man should be making any sort of personnel decisions for any team anywhere. He may not be "historically bad" as someone upthread said, but you can't sit there and honestly tell me he's not bottom 5 today.

[SouthSideRyan]

someone break down the prospecty-ness of the people we gave up.

 

 

We gave up an Ichiro, a right-handed Dontrelle Willis, a Bengie Molina, and a guy that will be great for team chemistry and plays the right way.

 

Chris Archer is black?

[tfarks]

This season will be depressing. I would have enjoyed a bunch of call-ups scrapping and gritting their way to moral victories.

[Guest]

including Archer on top of the rest of that package is completely indefensible

 

sigh, at least it's for a pitcher i like

 

Exactly.

[illiniguy]

Just tried skimming the thread a bit. Did the Cubs just trade Chris Archer, Hak-Ju Lee, Brandon Guyer. Robinson Chirinos and Sam Fuld for Matt Garza?

 

 

And some poet named Perez!!!!!! And some other guy who's not significant, but hasn't been named yet either.

 

But yes. It's a deal.

 

So that's BA's #1, #4, #10 and #16 prospects in our system (a top 8 system before the trade). For Matt Garza.

Kinda makes you wish that Hendry didn't have that lifetime contract, huh?

 

It's what happens when you have a GM who fears for his job safety and is doing everything he can to save his job.

I know, but it spits in the face of everything that the Ricketts have stated that they want to do. I really wish we would just move on to the next GM already. If we are even in the race this year I fear the type of deal Jim makes then.

[rawaction]

I'm not that big on Guyer, Chirinos or Lee. The first 2 I don't see as more than career backups. Lee was the most expendable of the top prospects because he plays the same position as Castro and Lake, so I figured he was gone in any trade. All 3 were expendable due to the Cubs depth at those positions, but that doesn't mean they have no value. Archer is obviously the gem in this trade, and I would have like to have gotten it done with anyone but him. McNutt, Carpenter, Jackson, maybe a combination of 2 pitchers instead of Archer and Fuld, though Fuld is completely meaningless in this trade.

[Guest]

How close to Adrian Gonzalez would this package have gotten.

 

Though I realize the future salary was the biggest stumbling block there. I might rather have one year of cost-controlled Adrian (plus a sure fire two first rounders in return) than three years of Garza.

[Guest]

It's quite possible that the Cubs don't feel that Archer will be able to improve his command. If that's the case, this was the right time to trade him.

[Guancous]

I think Hendry has officially worn out his "At least he's good at making trades" defense. There is no reason at all, NONE, that this man should be making any sort of personnel decisions for any team anywhere. He may not be "historically bad" as someone upthread said, but you can't sit there and honestly tell me he's not bottom 5 today.

 

There are fewer flat-out terrible GMs than in the game's history. Maybe it just seems that way now that Jim Bowden and Steve Phillips are gone. The owners are mainly to blame for the perennial losers.

 

Then again, no GM looks terrible until the decision that gets them fired.

[David]

I still think that Garza's potential for breakout (given his stuff) and his age and years left are being undervalued by some. Edited January 7, 2011 by David

[UMFan83]

It's the circle of life. We acquire prospects, get excited about them, give them lofty projections and then bitch when we trade them. Rinse and repeat.

 

Oh well.

[Guest]

It's quite possible that the Cubs don't feel that Archer will be able to improve his command. If that's the case, this was the right time to trade him.

 

I have no problem trading Archer but you better get good value.

 

Also don't care about Guyer and Chirinos due to the reasons raw said - positional depth and their future ceilings being backups. I'm not as down on Lee as you but not a big deal to see him go.

But I don't think I'd trade Archer straight up for Garza.

[Backtobanks]

I think Hendry has officially worn out his "At least he's good at making trades" defense. There is no reason at all, NONE, that this man should be making any sort of personnel decisions for any team anywhere. He may not be "historically bad" as someone upthread said, but you can't sit there and honestly tell me he's not bottom 5 today.

 

As others have pointed out, this trade can't be measured until those prospects perform in the ML. If Archer becomes the ace that some of you insist he will, then the trade sucks. If he becomes a middle reliever or blows out his arm, the trade is a phenominal success. Chirinos and Guyer will be backups and Lee is a slick fielding/no hitting middle IF.

[bcl412]

I'm guessing the reason for trading Archer is the fact that Hendry and Co. feel we have a lot of pitching in the farm as it is however after looking into it a little the only pitching prospect I like more is McNutt.

 

It just seems like a steep price and feels like something good low budget franchises do to take advantage of a poorly ran high budget team.