Cubs Acquire Garza for Archer, Lee, Guyer, Chirinos & Fuld

[Guest]

Just to get everyone all hot and bothered with excitement, Garza's most similar by age 26 are (drumroll please)..........

 

Kip Wells

Steve Trachsel

That would worry me a lot more if Garza were at all similar them as a pitcher. :)

[dew1679666265]

Pena is almost as good as Lee defensively and better than half the year with Lee/Nady. As I mentioned earlier I'm not a fan of Babip/Fip and I don't want to divert the topic but I see it as a positive net despite Wrigley and a worse defense compared to playing in the NLC.

 

You're also not as big a fan of Archer and Lee as I am as well. This may work out, I just don't like the package we had to give up. If we're going to give up two of our highest rated prospects, I'd like to see us get a guy more clearly an elite performer than Garza has been.

My only question with the trade is whether this package (or slightly better) would have put us in the running for Adrian Gonzalez. Of course, there's the huge difference in future dollar commitment to take into consideration, as well.

 

Given what I've heard about the Red Sox package, I think it may have. Very hard to say for sure either way, though.

[davell]

Pena is almost as good as Lee defensively and better than half the year with Lee/Nady. As I mentioned earlier I'm not a fan of Babip/Fip and I don't want to divert the topic but I see it as a positive net despite Wrigley and a worse defense compared to playing in the NLC.

 

You're also not as big a fan of Archer and Lee as I am as well. This may work out, I just don't like the package we had to give up. If we're going to give up two of our highest rated prospects, I'd like to see us get a guy more clearly an elite performer than Garza has been.

My only question with the trade is whether this package (or slightly better) would have put us in the running for Adrian Gonzalez. Of course, there's the huge difference in future dollar commitment to take into consideration, as well.

 

Yeah, but we're going to need a bigtime run producer, no matter what. And if Fielder makes to FA next year, he'll definitely be rumored to be on our list. With the money coming off our books next year, we'll have enough to get him(or A-GON if we had traded for him). My guess is they looked at it as Fielder/Garza>A-GON/Any FA SP from next year's class.

[Guest]

Pena is almost as good as Lee defensively and better than half the year with Lee/Nady. As I mentioned earlier I'm not a fan of Babip/Fip and I don't want to divert the topic but I see it as a positive net despite Wrigley and a worse defense compared to playing in the NLC.

 

You're also not as big a fan of Archer and Lee as I am as well. This may work out, I just don't like the package we had to give up. If we're going to give up two of our highest rated prospects, I'd like to see us get a guy more clearly an elite performer than Garza has been.

My only question with the trade is whether this package (or slightly better) would have put us in the running for Adrian Gonzalez. Of course, there's the huge difference in future dollar commitment to take into consideration, as well.

 

Hoyer was more familiar with the package of players he received from Boston, so it's hard to say. It's possible that the Cubs package is better, however, which kind of makes me sad.

 

I do think Garza will be a solid addition to the rotation.

[Guest]

Pena is almost as good as Lee defensively and better than half the year with Lee/Nady. As I mentioned earlier I'm not a fan of Babip/Fip and I don't want to divert the topic but I see it as a positive net despite Wrigley and a worse defense compared to playing in the NLC.

 

You're also not as big a fan of Archer and Lee as I am as well. This may work out, I just don't like the package we had to give up. If we're going to give up two of our highest rated prospects, I'd like to see us get a guy more clearly an elite performer than Garza has been.

My only question with the trade is whether this package (or slightly better) would have put us in the running for Adrian Gonzalez. Of course, there's the huge difference in future dollar commitment to take into consideration, as well.

 

Given what I've heard about the Red Sox package, I think it may have. Very hard to say for sure either way, though.

 

Remember, that package is for the right to pay Adrian Gonzalez more than market value for his services. The Cubs traded their package for Garza, who will likely put up anywhere from 5-15 million in surplus value depending on his performance and arbitration cases.

[dew1679666265]

Remember, that package is for the right to pay Adrian Gonzalez more than market value for his services. The Cubs traded their package for Garza, who will likely put up anywhere from 5-15 million in surplus value depending on his performance and arbitration cases.

 

Gonzalez will also put up 3-4 more WAR per season than Garza if Gonzalez keeps up what he's been doing the past couple of years.

[Guest]

Remember, that package is for the right to pay Adrian Gonzalez more than market value for his services. The Cubs traded their package for Garza, who will likely put up anywhere from 5-15 million in surplus value depending on his performance and arbitration cases.

 

Gonzalez will also put up 3-4 more WAR per season than Garza if Gonzalez keeps up what he's been doing the past couple of years.

 

It's actually scary to think about what he'll do with some decent talent around him instead of hitting between Scott Hairston and Chase Headley, and in a much more hitter friendly park/division.

[Guest]

I keep hearing the term potential when people are referring to Garza. The guy has pitched in the majors for 5 years now. It's so much more likely that he is what he is.

 

True, but Dempster had easily the best year of his career at age 31. It does happen.

 

I'm sure glad Ted Lilly didn't just decide to pack it in after posting a 4.60 ERA from 1999-2006.

[Guest]

Remember, that package is for the right to pay Adrian Gonzalez more than market value for his services. The Cubs traded their package for Garza, who will likely put up anywhere from 5-15 million in surplus value depending on his performance and arbitration cases.

 

Gonzalez will also put up 3-4 more WAR per season than Garza if Gonzalez keeps up what he's been doing the past couple of years.

 

Well yeah, that's kinda besides the point. A team has two assets, money and players. Just because one of them is similar to another deal doesn't mean it would make sense to make such a deal.

[UK1679666180]

2 guys who will really benefit from this trade are Chirinos and Fuld, who may very well be guaranteed spots on TBs 25 man roster, which never would have happened for them with the Cubs.

Sucks to be Guyer, though. He would have had a chance to either platoon with Colvin if Fukudome gets traded or win a spot outright if Colvin tanks. I really don't think he gets a chance to start in Tampa.

Maybe not this year but in the future, Guyer has a better chance to see the field there than Chicago.

This year Guyer had a realistic chance to platoon with Colvin. In the future, Byrd goes away and there's two OF spots for the combination of Colvin, Jackson and Guyer. I think there was a fairly realistic chance of him having a long-term role in the Chicago OF as at least a platoon partner for one or both of those guys.

I just don't think its the Cubs MO to do that, espec next year in the win now mode. Jackson likely starts in Fukudome's place as you mentioned but after that I see them debating on present/future and leaning outside the organ. regardless of a new GM. Look at TBs OF right now with Joyce, Jennings, and Upton and TBs organizational philosophy and I think his chances are better there.

[dew1679666265]

Remember, that package is for the right to pay Adrian Gonzalez more than market value for his services. The Cubs traded their package for Garza, who will likely put up anywhere from 5-15 million in surplus value depending on his performance and arbitration cases.

 

Gonzalez will also put up 3-4 more WAR per season than Garza if Gonzalez keeps up what he's been doing the past couple of years.

 

Well yeah, that's kinda besides the point. A team has two assets, money and players. Just because one of them is similar to another deal doesn't mean it would make sense to make such a deal.

 

You don't think the same deal for Gonzalez would have made sense? I think it would have been a clear win for the Cubs, even considering the huge monetary difference between the two.

[CubsWin]

What makes this not a salary dump for the Rays?

[imb]

http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/images/2010/08/10/Tt6aP8z7.jpg

 

woah, those uniforms rule

[davell]

2012 Roster

 

C Soto(2ND year arb) GUESS-6.5MILL

1B

2B DeWitt(1st year arb) GUESS-2.5MILL

SS Castro

3B

LF Soriano-18 mill

CF Byrd- 6.5 mill

RF Colvin

 

SP

Zambrano-17.875 mill

Dempster-15 mill

Garza- 3rd year arb GUESS 10MILL

Cashner

 

RP

Marmol- 3rd year arb GUESS 9MILL

Marshall- 3rd year arb GUESS 3.5MILL

 

Other money to be paid out

Silva 2mill

Ramirez- 2mill

Pena- 5mill

 

Altogether, that's a tad over 97 mill. Our current payroll projects to be right around 130. Which leaves us some room for possible optimism in the future anyway. Yes, we'll need a new corner infield. My guess is the Cubs HOPE Vitters is ready by then, but I don't see it happening and we certainly can't count on that for sure. But, you can find a stopgap, if you're the Cubs and still think he's eventually going to be the answer.

 

You may need a SP, but you have McNutt/Coleman/Carpenter/Jay Jackson and as a group, one of them SHOULD be able to slide into the 5th spot by 2012.

 

You need some bullpen help, but some of those guys will fill some slots and you can probably count on Wood being back again, assuming he's healthy enough to pitch.

 

You also have Brett Jackson coming soon and it's likely he'll be starting by that point. The only question is whether it's because we've traded Byrd, Soriano's hurt or Colvin has proven he can't be a starter.

 

Basically, alot of slots can be filled cheaply and we should be able to go add a true impact guy at 1B by then.

[davell]

What makes this not a salary dump for the Rays?

 

They've got a better, younger, cheaper guy to replace him with in Hellickson?

[Guest]

Remember, that package is for the right to pay Adrian Gonzalez more than market value for his services. The Cubs traded their package for Garza, who will likely put up anywhere from 5-15 million in surplus value depending on his performance and arbitration cases.

 

Gonzalez will also put up 3-4 more WAR per season than Garza if Gonzalez keeps up what he's been doing the past couple of years.

 

Well yeah, that's kinda besides the point. A team has two assets, money and players. Just because one of them is similar to another deal doesn't mean it would make sense to make such a deal.

 

You don't think the same deal for Gonzalez would have made sense? I think it would have been a clear win for the Cubs, even considering the huge monetary difference between the two.

 

That trade only happens if Boston gets the long term contract commitment. It almost fell through because Adrian and Boston had trouble working out the parameters of said fictitious contract. Also, Hoyer is very familiar with those Red Sox prospects. It's possible he either works a trade with Boston (his former employer) or no one gets their hands on Adrian before the trade deadline. Hoyer got a package of players he is happy with and Boston got their player.

[Cubswin11]

Garza threw a no-hitter last year guys. Only great pitchers do that! That's why Hendry had to give up 3 of our top 10-15 prospects

[Guest]

Remember, that package is for the right to pay Adrian Gonzalez more than market value for his services. The Cubs traded their package for Garza, who will likely put up anywhere from 5-15 million in surplus value depending on his performance and arbitration cases.

 

Gonzalez will also put up 3-4 more WAR per season than Garza if Gonzalez keeps up what he's been doing the past couple of years.

 

Well yeah, that's kinda besides the point. A team has two assets, money and players. Just because one of them is similar to another deal doesn't mean it would make sense to make such a deal.

 

You don't think the same deal for Gonzalez would have made sense? I think it would have been a clear win for the Cubs, even considering the huge monetary difference between the two.

 

No, I would've been pretty upset if they had made that deal and then had to turn around and give Gonzalez that contract. That contract alone guarantees the team breaks even at best or loses, without even considering the player cost. Now, you can give a bump for the scarcity of having THAT much value at one spot on the diamond, but it doesn't approach the value that 4 top 20 prospects could get you. Garza is good, he's still got some projection, and he's cost controlled. That makes him much more worthy of that package than paying Adrian Gonzalez the moon to be awesome for a couple years and then slowly decline and handcuff the franchise in Sorianian fashion.

[CubsWin]

What makes this not a salary dump for the Rays?

 

They've got a better, younger, cheaper guy to replace him with in Hellickson?

Even more reason why they would be motivated to get less in return for Garza. Not only did the Rays need to move Garza because of his salary doubling, but they already had his replacement waiting in the wings. I think Hendry got played.

[NewUserName]

Chapter 24 in the book Jim Hendry, The Failure Project

[ConstableRabbit]

I think I'm going to give myself a migraine hearing some typically smart people talk about Chirinos.

?

[Bull]

Rotoworld/Levine reporting there is also a minor league pitcher coming back. Sorry if this has already been posted.

[CubsWin]

Rotoworld/Levine reporting there is also a minor league pitcher coming back. Sorry if this has already been posted.

It's been out there. Still waiting to hear who it is. One report, I think from ESPN, has said that will not be anyone significant. But it's wait and see right now.

[ThePenguin11]

I'm not that thrilled about the trade but also don't feel like making a hard line "like it/hate it" pronouncement. This is really one that can't be judged at the moment.

 

On one hand, I was a big Archer fan and was somewhat confident that he'd work out as a middle of the rotation guy leaning towards the top half. I've never been the biggest Lee fan myself and who cares about Chirinos. One other problem for me is that I actually quite liked Guyer and I really don't think Colvin is going to finish this year as a worthwhile player and it have been nice to have a little depth there in the outfield.

 

On the other, we kept the Jacksons and McNutt and I think Garza's numbers will improve in the NL central. Also, he's rocking at least a half-Clement. Awesome.

 

I disagree. I think that there will be a significant improvement from last year's club to this year's. It may not be a huge improvement, but it will be enough that I consider them watchable again. Call me a fair weather fan if you want, but gone are the days where I just automatically give the Cubs my time and money blindly because I'm a fan. At 31, I just can't afford to invest myself emotionally to every game of every season in the longest season in sports anymore. If they're bad, I'll find some other, more valuable way to use my time like read a book, spend time with family or do laundry.

 

There's a pretty big area in between watching every game and not watching any games.

 

After you've put up with this team for long enough...there really isn't. If they're not even remotely competitive, to me, they're unwatchable.

[CubColtPacer]

What makes this not a salary dump for the Rays?

 

They've got a better, younger, cheaper guy to replace him with in Hellickson?

Even more reason why they would be motivated to get less in return for Garza. Not only did the Rays need to move Garza because of his salary doubling, but they already had his replacement waiting in the wings. I think Hendry got played.

 

It wasn't a salary dump because of the competition. The Cubs had to outbid 3 other teams for Garza. Even if Tampa would have been willing to give a discount if there was no other interest, the competition quickly drove Garza's price right back to its true value.