Cubs Acquire Garza for Archer, Lee, Guyer, Chirinos & Fuld

[dew1679666265]

I still think that Garza's potential for breakout (given his stuff) and his age and years left are being undervalued by some.

 

The problem with the package we gave up is that Garza now has to break out for this trade to make sense. If we get a Garza closer to his xFIPs the past few years, this was a horrid trade. But if Hendry saw a guy ready to break out, and he does, it makes a lot more sense. But he has to break out for it to make sense.

[Clem Fandango]

I would've rather floated that trade proposal to the Twins to see if they'd give up Liriano for it

[Guest]

But I don't think I'd trade Archer straight up for Garza.

 

I think that's going off the deep end a bit. Lest we forget, Garza was essentially Archer + good control as a prospect himself.

 

 

There's less certainty with pitchers repeating performance(good or bad) even with several years of track record. We shouldn't consider Garza as someone who's already butting against his ceiling.

[davell]

I definitely think we gave up too much here. But, you get a proven commodity(3ish type starter anyway) with some solid upside left in him for a guy who's blocked(Lee), 2 bench guys who will be useful(Chirinos and Guyer) and a possible stud(Archer) that at least we have depth to replace(Cashner, Carpenter, Jay Jackson, McNutt). Not ALL of those guys are going to pan out obviously. The only real hope is we've dealt one of them that won't.

[mookie]

Are they checking to see whether the third player is still alive or what? Get on with it already!

[roadster]

Looking back at trades (Cubs trading an establised major leaguer for prospects) I recall over the years by the Cubs and trying to recall all the reactions on NSBB regarding the trade and the prospects given up, it seems that this trade is not a win for the Cubs (looking at the success of the prospects traded post trade) - not scientific but just based on reading/recalling the reactions. Even though most people on NSBB (in fact, most fans) overvalues the prospects, it seems the concensus (if put together) gives a fairly good indicator of the prospects traded.

 

For example

 

1) the trade for Pierre was lambasted because of the prospects traded and looking at the trade today, it was a definite loss for the Cubs.

2) the trade for Aramis was praised and the prospects in the deal were overall busts (I guess you could argue a bit on Brendan Harris since he played well last year)

3) the trade for Lee was praised and Choi was never the same or performed to his expected prospect standing

4) the trade for Harden was praised and none of the prospects panned out

5) the trade for Nomar was highly praised and none of the prospects to Montreal and the Twins were non-issues

6) the trade for Clement/six finger bust closer was middle of the ground but none of the prospects did much (except for Willis but success was short-lived)

 

I can't think of any other big or minor deals at the moment (I am sure there are others) - trading for a veteran/established player for prospects that has bit the Cubs in the arse. Please feel free to add.

[David]

I don't remember the trade for Lee being praised.

[bcl412]

Looking back at trades (Cubs trading an establised major leaguer for prospects) I recall over the years by the Cubs and trying to recall all the reactions on NSBB regarding the trade and the prospects given up, it seems that this trade is not a win for the Cubs (looking at the success of the prospects traded post trade) - not scientific but just based on reading/recalling the reactions. Even though most people on NSBB (in fact, most fans) overvalues the prospects, it seems the concensus (if put together) gives a fairly good indicator of the prospects traded.

 

For example

 

1) the trade for Pierre was lambasted because of the prospects traded and looking at the trade today, it was a definite loss for the Cubs.

2) the trade for Aramis was praised and the prospects in the deal were overall busts (I guess you could argue a bit on Brendan Harris since he played well last year)

3) the trade for Lee was praised and Choi was never the same or performed to his expected prospect standing

4) the trade for Harden was praised and none of the prospects panned out

5) the trade for Nomar was highly praised and none of the prospects to Montreal and the Twins were non-issues

6) the trade for Clement/six finger bust closer was middle of the ground but none of the prospects did much (except for Willis but success was short-lived)

 

I can't think of any other big or minor deals at the moment (I am sure there are others) - trading for a veteran/established player for prospects that has bit the Cubs in the arse. Please feel free to add.

 

Nitpickey but wasn't Harris in the Nomar trade not the Aramis trade?

[David]

Looking back at trades (Cubs trading an establised major leaguer for prospects) I recall over the years by the Cubs and trying to recall all the reactions on NSBB regarding the trade and the prospects given up, it seems that this trade is not a win for the Cubs (looking at the success of the prospects traded post trade) - not scientific but just based on reading/recalling the reactions. Even though most people on NSBB (in fact, most fans) overvalues the prospects, it seems the concensus (if put together) gives a fairly good indicator of the prospects traded.

 

For example

 

1) the trade for Pierre was lambasted because of the prospects traded and looking at the trade today, it was a definite loss for the Cubs.

2) the trade for Aramis was praised and the prospects in the deal were overall busts (I guess you could argue a bit on Brendan Harris since he played well last year)

3) the trade for Lee was praised and Choi was never the same or performed to his expected prospect standing

4) the trade for Harden was praised and none of the prospects panned out

5) the trade for Nomar was highly praised and none of the prospects to Montreal and the Twins were non-issues

6) the trade for Clement/six finger bust closer was middle of the ground but none of the prospects did much (except for Willis but success was short-lived)

 

I can't think of any other big or minor deals at the moment (I am sure there are others) - trading for a veteran/established player for prospects that has bit the Cubs in the arse. Please feel free to add.

 

Nitpickey but wasn't Harris in the Nomar trade not the Aramis trade?

 

Yes.

[dew1679666265]

Nitpickey but wasn't Harris in the Nomar trade not the Aramis trade?

 

The Aramis trade sent Bobby Hill, Matt Bruback and Jose Hernandez to Pitt.

[roadster]

Looking back at trades (Cubs trading an establised major leaguer for prospects) I recall over the years by the Cubs and trying to recall all the reactions on NSBB regarding the trade and the prospects given up, it seems that this trade is not a win for the Cubs (looking at the success of the prospects traded post trade) - not scientific but just based on reading/recalling the reactions. Even though most people on NSBB (in fact, most fans) overvalues the prospects, it seems the concensus (if put together) gives a fairly good indicator of the prospects traded.

 

For example

 

1) the trade for Pierre was lambasted because of the prospects traded and looking at the trade today, it was a definite loss for the Cubs.

2) the trade for Aramis was praised and the prospects in the deal were overall busts (I guess you could argue a bit on Brendan Harris since he played well last year)

3) the trade for Lee was praised and Choi was never the same or performed to his expected prospect standing

4) the trade for Harden was praised and none of the prospects panned out

5) the trade for Nomar was highly praised and none of the prospects to Montreal and the Twins were non-issues

6) the trade for Clement/six finger bust closer was middle of the ground but none of the prospects did much (except for Willis but success was short-lived)

 

I can't think of any other big or minor deals at the moment (I am sure there are others) - trading for a veteran/established player for prospects that has bit the Cubs in the arse. Please feel free to add.

 

Nitpickey but wasn't Harris in the Nomar trade not the Aramis trade?

 

Probably...while doing this on the fly, I actually did confused both trades...I had prospects from the Aramis trade going to the Twins and Montreal but corrected before posting...

[roadster]

I don't remember the trade for Lee being praised.

 

that was awhile ago so you could be right...

[Ding Dong Johnson]

someone break down the prospecty-ness of the people we gave up.

 

 

We gave up an Ichiro, a right-handed Dontrelle Willis, a Bengie Molina, and a guy that will be great for team chemistry and plays the right way.

 

Chris Archer is black?

ish

[David]

http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/images/2010/08/10/Tt6aP8z7.jpg

[Guancous]

According to that research, Archer should win Rookie of the Year then blow his labrum out. Garza would become a steady 15 game winner.

[Guancous]

someone break down the prospecty-ness of the people we gave up.

 

 

We gave up an Ichiro, a right-handed Dontrelle Willis, a Bengie Molina, and a guy that will be great for team chemistry and plays the right way.

 

Chris Archer is black?

ish

 

I thought SouthSide was joking because of the Dontrelle comp. Next you'll tell me Brett Jackson is white!

 

(Something, something, Troy O'Leary)

[SouthSideRyan]

http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/images/2010/08/10/Tt6aP8z7.jpg

 

That's just Eric Patterson

[treebird]

http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/images/2010/08/10/Tt6aP8z7.jpg

 

That's just Eric Patterson

 

if it was eric patterson, he'd be able to afford to buy the top button on his jersey, thanks to his sweet nsbb minor league player of the year payout

[JonJayCutler]

http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/images/2010/08/10/Tt6aP8z7.jpg

 

Those uniforms are frickin amazing.

[C.C.]

http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/images/2010/08/10/Tt6aP8z7.jpg

 

Those uniforms are frickin amazing.

 

Seriously?

[bukie]

Did this also finish up some kind of deal for Carlos Pena, or was all that just for Garza? :)

[chuckywang]

Looking back at trades (Cubs trading an establised major leaguer for prospects) I recall over the years by the Cubs and trying to recall all the reactions on NSBB regarding the trade and the prospects given up, it seems that this trade is not a win for the Cubs (looking at the success of the prospects traded post trade) - not scientific but just based on reading/recalling the reactions. Even though most people on NSBB (in fact, most fans) overvalues the prospects, it seems the concensus (if put together) gives a fairly good indicator of the prospects traded.

 

For example

 

1) the trade for Pierre was lambasted because of the prospects traded and looking at the trade today, it was a definite loss for the Cubs.

2) the trade for Aramis was praised and the prospects in the deal were overall busts (I guess you could argue a bit on Brendan Harris since he played well last year)

3) the trade for Lee was praised and Choi was never the same or performed to his expected prospect standing

4) the trade for Harden was praised and none of the prospects panned out

5) the trade for Nomar was highly praised and none of the prospects to Montreal and the Twins were non-issues

6) the trade for Clement/six finger bust closer was middle of the ground but none of the prospects did much (except for Willis but success was short-lived)

 

I can't think of any other big or minor deals at the moment (I am sure there are others) - trading for a veteran/established player for prospects that has bit the Cubs in the arse. Please feel free to add.

 

Nitpickey but wasn't Harris in the Nomar trade not the Aramis trade?

 

Probably...while doing this on the fly, I actually did confused both trades...I had prospects from the Aramis trade going to the Twins and Montreal but corrected before posting...

 

It was Bobby Hill in the Aramis trade right?

[Guest]

I don't mind the deal. Hoping Garza goes the Ted Lilly route and makes a jump going from the AL East to the NL Central, which I think he will. Admittedly don't know too much about the prospects, though, other than what I've read on here.

[Guest]

http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/images/2010/08/10/Tt6aP8z7.jpg

 

That's just Eric Patterson

 

if it was eric patterson, he'd be able to afford to buy the top button on his jersey, thanks to his sweet nsbb minor league player of the year payout

That was a donation to charity of his choice, but thanks for playing!

[dew1679666265]

It was Bobby Hill in the Aramis trade right?

 

Yep.