Rich Hill traded to Baltimore for PTBNL

[imb]

Remember when Hill could have landed the Cubs Adam Dunn? Hendry said NO.

debunked many times

 

Maybe not Dunn, but we could have got a lot more than a PTBNL. While sophmore slumps do happen, nobody would have imagined that 2008 would be the trainwreck it was for him.

 

the hill departure doesn't sadden me too much outside of the fact that he was really good, lost it and could never find it. theoretically there's nothing to lose by keeping him and letting him try and find it during spring training, but im sure the cubs have been monitoring his progress and probably figured it was best for them both to cut ties now and re-unite him with the minor league instructors that helped him get it together in the first place.

 

what really gets me is the pie situation. just like three years ago the whole organization was calling him the michael jordan of baseball, and no matter what you think of him as a prospect, 300-400 ABs spread out over two or three years is not enough of a chance to give him. Especially not before just shipping him out for garbage.

[treebird]

Remember when Hill could have landed the Cubs Adam Dunn? Hendry said NO.

debunked many times

 

Maybe not Dunn, but we could have got a lot more than a PTBNL. While sophmore slumps do happen, nobody would have imagined that 2008 would be the trainwreck it was for him.

 

the hill departure doesn't sadden me too much outside of the fact that he was really good, lost it and could never find it. theoretically there's nothing to lose by keeping him and letting him try and find it during spring training, but im sure the cubs have been monitoring his progress and probably figured it was best for them both to cut ties now and re-unite him with the minor league instructors that helped him get it together in the first place.

 

what really gets me is the pie situation. just like three years ago the whole organization was calling him the michael jordan of baseball, and no matter what you think of him as a prospect, 300-400 ABs spread out over two or three years is not enough of a chance to give him. Especially not before just shipping him out for garbage.

 

i'd agree with that. i'd much prefer to keep hill on the extreme off-chance he figures it out, but throwing away that tiny chance isn't a huge deal.

 

throwing away pie so you can keep a guy like joey gathright on the roster is complete nonsense. there is absolutely no reason to give up on a guy like pie at this stage. 260 major league at bats over two seasons is not a good way to evaluate a young player, especially if he was 22 and 23 in those seasons. and ESPECIALLY when you look at his minor league track record.

[imb]

especially especially when his replacement is joey gathright.

 

i mean, there wasn't another way to get garret olson/aaron heilman? a couple of decent lower level guys wouldn't have gotten it done?

[USSoccer]

especially especially when his replacement is joey gathright.

 

i mean, there wasn't another way to get garret olson/aaron heilman? a couple of decent lower level guys wouldn't have gotten it done?

 

I can't imagine we couldn't have packaged any one of our minor league pitchers along with Cedeno and achieved the same result. The move doesn't make sense.

[Warpticon]

Yet another perplexing move in this bizarre offseason.

[DiamondMind]

There's a lot of over sensationalized crap in this thread. Hill was never going to crack the (still) crowded rotation this year.

 

Arguing he maybe should of been traded last year is a valid point, but right now, I really don't care anymore.

 

I mean really what's so "perplexing" about this move?

[biittner77]

There's a lot of over sensationalized crap in this thread. Hill was never going to crack the (still) crowded rotation this year.

 

Arguing he maybe should of been traded last year is a valid point, but right now, I really don't care anymore.

 

I mean really what's so "perplexing" about this move?

 

The giving him away for nothing now instead of seeing if he can do anything in ST and if he can't releasing him then. I understand that the Cubs have Minor League rosters they need to fill but couldn't they just sign a ML FA. If they bring Hill to ST and he still hasn't figured it out try sending him through waivers. If he doesn't clear then so be it. If he did then they'd have another shot at fixing him. Hill has more of a chance to help the Cubs than whoever they got in this deal.

[anabiono]

can we just use the old adage "what have you done for me lately" please

 

Mr. Hill, what have you done for me lately?

 

Mr. Hill - "Honestly, not a whole hell of a lot. Actually, I have displayed for you the principle of suck."

 

boy is gone...wasn't showing signs of improving...

 

why is everyone so terribly woe-be-gone over this?

 

:confused:

[Banedon]

Yet another perplexing move in this bizarre offseason.

 

Is it really perplexing? I mean, he was out of options...and he sucked right now...I think those two things are pretty much fact.

 

Either they trade him for something/anything, or they risk losing him for nothing as he clears waivers. This was clearly the better option. I certainly understand the hand wringing over this, but I think that has more to do with Hill's failures than anything the Cubs failed at. Certainly you wish that the coaching staff could have worked him through his issues, but maybe it's just not meant to be. Better pitchers than Rich Hill (Rick Ankiel) caught a case of the mental yips and couldn't get it back, even with a pitching coach with the midas touch (Duncan), which Rothschild hasn't proven to be.

 

I think this is just one of those moves that people will understandably be unhappy about, but understand.

[cubbinalltheway]

Yet another perplexing move in this bizarre offseason.

how on earth is it perplexing? he hasn't thrown a strike in how many months of trying?

[CubColtPacer]

There's a lot of over sensationalized crap in this thread. Hill was never going to crack the (still) crowded rotation this year.

 

Arguing he maybe should of been traded last year is a valid point, but right now, I really don't care anymore.

 

I mean really what's so "perplexing" about this move?

 

The giving him away for nothing now instead of seeing if he can do anything in ST and if he can't releasing him then. I understand that the Cubs have Minor League rosters they need to fill but couldn't they just sign a ML FA. If they bring Hill to ST and he still hasn't figured it out try sending him through waivers. If he doesn't clear then so be it. If he did then they'd have another shot at fixing him. Hill has more of a chance to help the Cubs than whoever they got in this deal.

 

How good would Hill have to be in ST for the Cubs to keep him? He would pretty much have to show his control problems were completely behind him to win a spot. And the likelihood of that after a full year of huge control problems is very small.

 

However, with the Orioles they'll likely keep him on the roster if he can just show some potential to throw strikes again. He doesn't necessarily have to do it consistently to hang on a couple months. And then if over time they fix him, he probably nets a prospect between 15-25 on the Orioles list. That potential prospect has a better chance of helping us than Hill does of coming to camp and consistently throwing strikes all of ST.

[abuck1220]

i like how all the articles are like "hill was good for a while a few years ago, blah, blah, then completely fell apart last season. he was sent to the minors with a 4.12 era early in 2008."

 

And a WHIP of 4.58

 

well, that's obviously not true.

 

he had a whip of 1.58 and an era of 4.12. i'm not saying he was good or even acceptable, but guys with a lot worse numbers than that have stuck on major league rosters, and it wasn't like he was killing the team.

 

6 ip, 4 h, 2 er, 3 bb, 4 k

3 ip, 3 h, 3 er, 4 bb, 3 k

5 ip, 3 h, 1 er, 3 bb, 4 k

5 ip, 3 h, 2 er, 4 bb, 3 k

 

followed by the disaster in st. louis.

[sneakypower]

i think it's important to remember that we (reportedly) wouldn't part with Pie in a Roberts deal or with Hill in a Bedard deal, just a year ago

[biittner77]

How good would Hill have to be in ST for the Cubs to keep him? He would pretty much have to show his control problems were completely behind him to win a spot. And the likelihood of that after a full year of huge control problems is very small.

 

However, with the Orioles they'll likely keep him on the roster if he can just show some potential to throw strikes again. He doesn't necessarily have to do it consistently to hang on a couple months. And then if over time they fix him, he probably nets a prospect between 15-25 on the Orioles list. That potential prospect has a better chance of helping us than Hill does of coming to camp and consistently throwing strikes all of ST.

 

As for the 1st part, if Hill showed any signs of having figured it out they could get rid of Vizcaino to make a spot on the roster.

 

As for the 2nd part, between 15-25 on the O's depth chart is not someone that is very likely to help the big club.

[SouthSideRyan]

i think it's important to remember that we (reportedly) wouldn't part with Pie in a Roberts deal or with Hill in a Bedard deal, just a year ago

 

It was defensible at face value. If the Cubs knew they were gonna give up on either of them if they sucked for 3 weeks then they're idiots for not trading them.

[Banedon]

i think it's important to remember that we (reportedly) wouldn't part with Pie in a Roberts deal or with Hill in a Bedard deal, just a year ago

 

It was defensible at face value. If the Cubs knew they were gonna give up on either of them if they sucked for 3 weeks then they're idiots for not trading them.

 

Holding onto Hill is more defensible than Pie...at least Hill did some things at the major league level. Pie, not so much.

[cubsfan26]

The giving him away for nothing now instead of seeing if he can do anything in ST and if he can't releasing him then.

 

 

Who said they gave him away for nothing? We don't know what type of prospect we got yet. Player to be named later doesn't always equal crap. But be realistic, Hill wasn't going to find it with us. If the guy can't throw strikes in the majors and minors last year, and even this winter walked more then innings pitched. Whats going to change in spring training, he wasn't all of the sudden gonna find it. Rich Hill is just bad now, who knows maybe Krantiz can get in his head and help him figure it out. But he wasn't gonna do that with us. Getting a better prospect if Hill does make the Orioles rotation, is probably the best outcome there could be. It's a sad situation, but the blame needs to go on Hill, and not the Cubs.

[Wrigley Rat]

i like how all the articles are like "hill was good for a while a few years ago, blah, blah, then completely fell apart last season. he was sent to the minors with a 4.12 era early in 2008."

 

And a WHIP of 4.58

 

well, that's obviously not true.

 

he had a whip of 1.58 and an era of 4.12. i'm not saying he was good or even acceptable, but guys with a lot worse numbers than that have stuck on major league rosters, and it wasn't like he was killing the team.

 

6 ip, 4 h, 2 er, 3 bb, 4 k

3 ip, 3 h, 3 er, 4 bb, 3 k

5 ip, 3 h, 1 er, 3 bb, 4 k

5 ip, 3 h, 2 er, 4 bb, 3 k

 

followed by the disaster in st. louis.

Please don't forget a disastrous time at Daytona and Iowa last year (nearly a walk per inning), and then his one chance to show the Cubs that he was worth saving was in Venezuela this winter where he had 23 walks in 21 innings pitched in front of one of the Cubs minor league managers (I forget who). The only way Rich Hill becomes the 2007 Rich Hill again is if Dunn and Kranitz can change his mechanics back to what they were. Then, the Cubs should receive a very nice prospect in return.

[SouthSideRyan]

i think it's important to remember that we (reportedly) wouldn't part with Pie in a Roberts deal or with Hill in a Bedard deal, just a year ago

 

It was defensible at face value. If the Cubs knew they were gonna give up on either of them if they sucked for 3 weeks then they're idiots for not trading them.

 

Holding onto Hill is more defensible than Pie...at least Hill did some things at the major league level. Pie, not so much.

 

Pie to this day hasn't had a chance at the major league level, let alone before this season.

[davearm2]

i think it's important to remember that we (reportedly) wouldn't part with Pie in a Roberts deal or with Hill in a Bedard deal, just a year ago

I'm sure Hendry's fielded calls asking about guys like Soto and Marmol this offseason.

 

Do you think he should hurry up and trade those guys ASAP just in case they wind up like Pie and Hill?

 

Yeah, didn't think so.

[Sammy Sofa]

i think it's important to remember that we (reportedly) wouldn't part with Pie in a Roberts deal or with Hill in a Bedard deal, just a year ago

 

Isn't that a moot point in regards to Roberts? Angelos wasn't going to part with him.

[wvcbxl]

As for the 1st part, if Hill showed any signs of having figured it out they could get rid of Vizcaino to make a spot on the roster.

 

The Cubs would have to feel confident that Hill would be able to be consistent for the entire season for that to work - positive signs in ST wouldn't be enough.

I guess if anything trading him indicated they had lost all confidence in his ability to remain consistent over an entire season.

[Warpticon]

Yet another perplexing move in this bizarre offseason.

 

Is it really perplexing? I mean, he was out of options...and he sucked right now...I think those two things are pretty much fact.

 

Either they trade him for something/anything, or they risk losing him for nothing as he clears waivers. This was clearly the better option. I certainly understand the hand wringing over this, but I think that has more to do with Hill's failures than anything the Cubs failed at. Certainly you wish that the coaching staff could have worked him through his issues, but maybe it's just not meant to be. Better pitchers than Rich Hill (Rick Ankiel) caught a case of the mental yips and couldn't get it back, even with a pitching coach with the midas touch (Duncan), which Rothschild hasn't proven to be.

 

I think this is just one of those moves that people will understandably be unhappy about, but understand.

 

It's not that he was traded that's perplexing...it's the timing of it coupled with the fact that it's yet another trade with the Orioles that doesn't appear to help the team at all currently.

[abuck1220]

i like how all the articles are like "hill was good for a while a few years ago, blah, blah, then completely fell apart last season. he was sent to the minors with a 4.12 era early in 2008."

 

And a WHIP of 4.58

 

well, that's obviously not true.

 

he had a whip of 1.58 and an era of 4.12. i'm not saying he was good or even acceptable, but guys with a lot worse numbers than that have stuck on major league rosters, and it wasn't like he was killing the team.

 

6 ip, 4 h, 2 er, 3 bb, 4 k

3 ip, 3 h, 3 er, 4 bb, 3 k

5 ip, 3 h, 1 er, 3 bb, 4 k

5 ip, 3 h, 2 er, 4 bb, 3 k

 

followed by the disaster in st. louis.

Please don't forget a disastrous time at Daytona and Iowa last year (nearly a walk per inning), and then his one chance to show the Cubs that he was worth saving was in Venezuela this winter where he had 23 walks in 21 innings pitched in front of one of the Cubs minor league managers (I forget who). The only way Rich Hill becomes the 2007 Rich Hill again is if Dunn and Kranitz can change his mechanics back to what they were. Then, the Cubs should receive a very nice prospect in return.

 

i think the problem snowballed once he got sent down. i would have liked to see whether he could have worked it out with the big league team.

[badnews]

I'm enjoying the revisionist history on how we should've gotten rid of Rich Hill immediately after he was successful. After all, he did have junk stuff, stuff crappy enough to result in a K/9 above 8. And he did fall apart with runners on base (sarcasm here). I mean, look at his LOB % vs. the major league average, my God, this guy just let everyone score once they were on base. Deer in the headlights I tells ya, deer in the headlights.

 

I'm glad we never had Cliff Lee, otherwise we'd have sold him for junk after his bad season as well.