CC Sabathia Traded to Brewers (for LaPorta + Prospects)

[RynoRules]

Don't know how much this is worth but Steve Phillips just stated on ESPN that the Cubs are the front runners for A.J. Burnett, assuming either the Brewers or Dodgers acquire Sabathia. He said a "nice package" around SS Ronny Cedeno and others would be good enough to make a deal with Toronto because Burnett has an opt-out clause in his contract after this season. At this point, I say we just go for Burnett, coming back to the NL is only going to do good things for him. Plus, you would have to give up a whole lot more to get C.C.

 

That brings up the most interesting question:

 

Would you rather "clean-out" the system for Sabathia or send Cedeno and a pitching prospect (Marshall?) for Burnett?

 

seeing as there is about a .5% chance we get sabathia...it is a no-brainer...the only thing that makes me worried is losing cedeno, who has been very valuable to us thus far...

 

i have wanted burnett since the offseason...he has struggled this year, but i still think it is the right move...

 

the only other pitcher i would really want would be harden, and that has got to be at about .0000000042% chance right now though

 

You're missing my point - if you assume we could have Sabathia but it would cost us significantly more than acquiring Burnett, what do you do? Is Sabathia that much better than Burnett?

[Sammy Sofa]

Is Sabathia that much better than Burnett?

 

Am I missing something obvious here where the answer could somehow be something other than "of course"?

[RynoRules]

Is Sabathia that much better than Burnett?

 

Am I missing something obvious here where the answer could somehow be something other than "of course"?

 

Yeah, I guess you are. If getting Sabathia means clearing out all of our valuable prospects, I am not sure he is worth it. I am not saying no, I just think it is an interesting question.

[Sammy Sofa]

Is Sabathia that much better than Burnett?

 

Am I missing something obvious here where the answer could somehow be something other than "of course"?

 

Yeah, I guess you are. If getting Sabathia means clearing out all of our valuable prospects, I am not sure he is worth it. I am not saying no, I just think it is an interesting question.

 

Yes, but you hinged it on whether or not Sabathia is "that much better" than Burnett, and I would respond, even without anyone even knowing exactly what "that much better" actually is, yes, Sabathia is easily that much better than Burnett, and then some.

 

What is the appeal of Burnett at this point? His numbers have generally been medicore to awful for a while now, and he's got a serious injury history. His only appeal would be in bumping Marquis, but looking at Burnett's numbers, is that even all that appealing? I'd argue anyone of value used to get Burnett is much more of a waste than the boatload it would take to land Sabathia.

[Joe_Cub]

as people have previously said, if burnett sucks, he won't opt out, and the cubs will be stuck with him for 2 yrs at $12million each.

[VanceJergins]

Is Sabathia that much better than Burnett?

 

Am I missing something obvious here where the answer could somehow be something other than "of course"?

 

Yeah, I guess you are. If getting Sabathia means clearing out all of our valuable prospects, I am not sure he is worth it. I am not saying no, I just think it is an interesting question.

 

Yes, but you hinged it on whether or not Sabathia is "that much better" than Burnett, and I would respond, even without anyone even knowing exactly what "that much better" actually is, yes, Sabathia is easily that much better than Burnett, and then some.

 

What is the appeal of Burnett at this point? His numbers have generally been medicore to awful for a while now, and he's got a serious injury history. His only appeal would be in bumping Marquis, but looking at Burnett's numbers, is that even all that appealing? I'd argue anyone of value used to get Burnett is much more of a waste than the boatload it would take to land Sabathia.

 

The last 3 years he's had an ERA+ of 115, 115, and 119. Each of those years he's had an ERA under 4, with 2 of those season in the AL East. I think he's very likely to have a good second half, the only thing that really worries me is his injuries. I think it would be stupid not to get him considering it will barely cost anything, player wise. I don't see who else we can get, unless the Braves or Astros are looking to deal Hudson or Oswalt.

 

I still think we really need to snatch up Milton Bradley.

[Sammy Sofa]

Is Sabathia that much better than Burnett?

 

Am I missing something obvious here where the answer could somehow be something other than "of course"?

 

Yeah, I guess you are. If getting Sabathia means clearing out all of our valuable prospects, I am not sure he is worth it. I am not saying no, I just think it is an interesting question.

 

Yes, but you hinged it on whether or not Sabathia is "that much better" than Burnett, and I would respond, even without anyone even knowing exactly what "that much better" actually is, yes, Sabathia is easily that much better than Burnett, and then some.

 

What is the appeal of Burnett at this point? His numbers have generally been medicore to awful for a while now, and he's got a serious injury history. His only appeal would be in bumping Marquis, but looking at Burnett's numbers, is that even all that appealing? I'd argue anyone of value used to get Burnett is much more of a waste than the boatload it would take to land Sabathia.

 

The last 3 years he's had an ERA+ of 115, 115, and 119. Each of those years he's had an ERA under 4, with 2 of those season in the AL East. I think he's very likely to have a good second half, the only thing that really worries me is his injuries. I think it would be stupid not to get him considering it will barely cost anything, player wise. I don't see who else we can get, unless the Braves or Astros are looking to deal Hudson or Oswalt.

 

I still think we really need to snatch up Milton Bradley.

 

If Brunett can be had with Cedeno basically as the centerpiece, hey, go nuts. If it costs anything significant, like Marshall, who some have tossed out, then no. Burnett has way too many red flags for the money he costs.

 

I definitely agree with getting MB, and have wanted him for the Cubs for a while now.

[VanceJergins]

Is Sabathia that much better than Burnett?

 

Am I missing something obvious here where the answer could somehow be something other than "of course"?

 

Yeah, I guess you are. If getting Sabathia means clearing out all of our valuable prospects, I am not sure he is worth it. I am not saying no, I just think it is an interesting question.

 

Yes, but you hinged it on whether or not Sabathia is "that much better" than Burnett, and I would respond, even without anyone even knowing exactly what "that much better" actually is, yes, Sabathia is easily that much better than Burnett, and then some.

 

What is the appeal of Burnett at this point? His numbers have generally been medicore to awful for a while now, and he's got a serious injury history. His only appeal would be in bumping Marquis, but looking at Burnett's numbers, is that even all that appealing? I'd argue anyone of value used to get Burnett is much more of a waste than the boatload it would take to land Sabathia.

 

The last 3 years he's had an ERA+ of 115, 115, and 119. Each of those years he's had an ERA under 4, with 2 of those season in the AL East. I think he's very likely to have a good second half, the only thing that really worries me is his injuries. I think it would be stupid not to get him considering it will barely cost anything, player wise. I don't see who else we can get, unless the Braves or Astros are looking to deal Hudson or Oswalt.

 

I still think we really need to snatch up Milton Bradley.

 

If Brunett can be had with Cedeno basically as the centerpiece, hey, go nuts. If it costs anything significant, like Marshall, who some have tossed out, then no. Burnett has way too many red flags for the money he costs.

 

I definitely agree with getting MB, and have wanted him for the Cubs for a while now.

 

Yeah, I just want Burnett on the assumption that we can throw some junk Canada's way. (I guess Cedeno isn't exactly junk, but I wouldn't shed any tears over losing him.)

[WindyCity]

Can we send Marquis to Canada as part of a Burnett deal? If so, let's do this yesterday!

[RammyFanny]

Yeah, AJ is the perfect buy low candidate. If you notice the game logs (and I can attest for this since he's on my fantasy team), he is still throwing alot of gems but he follows up every couple of gems with a 6IP 8ER thing. So it's not like he's consistently struggled in each of his starts, it's just that he has a really bad game for every couple of really good games. He's still striking out a crap-ton of batters too.

 

Let's take a look at his last 12 starts:

 

April 25th-7 innings/ 3 ER/6K

7 innings/ 0 ER/ 5K

6 innings/ 5 ER/ 10K

8 innings/ 3 ER/ 7K

6 innings/ 2 ER/ 8K

6 innings/ 3 ER/ 6K

6 innings/ 2 ER/ 10K

8 innings/ 2 ER/ 8K

4 innings/ 8 ER/ 5K

5 innings/ 2 ER/ 7K

5 innings/8 ER/ 5K

8 innings/1 ER/ 7K

7 innings/ 0 ER/ 11K

July 4th-7 innings/ 6 ER/ 3K

 

As you can see, he has a bunch of quality starts but always throws a terrible one in between that kills his ERA.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

If San Fran is shopping Cain, I think we'd match up pretty nice with them. They need quantity, and i'm sure a Pie/Gallagher/Cedeno/+ offer could get their attention depending on how they view these guys.

 

Frankly, I think Milwaukee matches up better with San Francisco than anyone else. San Francisco has good pitching, but they need help across the diamond and power bats in the worst way. LaPorta would be a great fit as a RH power hitter. Alcides Escobar would be a massive upgrade over whatever they trot out there at SS (as would many other people). Cole Gillespie would fit in nicely in RF. Angel Salome would be a good fit, considering Bengie Molina will turn 35 next year.

 

I don't see why Milwaukee doesn't try making a run at Cain or Lincecum.

 

Everyone matches up well with the Giants, outside of some starting pitching(which "you can never have too much of" anyway), they are completely devoid of any meaningful talent.

 

I wanted to go after Cain earlier, and I still do now if he's available.

[VanceJergins]

I really wish the Cubs would have gone after Hudson when the Braves were trying to deal him after the one bad year of his career. They should have just done what I was begging them to do in my mind. Has anyone heard if there's any chance the Braves would trade him now?

[rawaction]

Yeah, AJ is the perfect buy low candidate. If you notice the game logs (and I can attest for this since he's on my fantasy team), he is still throwing alot of gems but he follows up every couple of gems with a 6IP 8ER thing. So it's not like he's consistently struggled in each of his starts, it's just that he has a really bad game for every couple of really good games. He's still striking out a crap-ton of batters too.

 

Let's take a look at his last 12 starts:

 

April 25th-7 innings/ 3 ER/6K

7 innings/ 0 ER/ 5K

6 innings/ 5 ER/ 10K

8 innings/ 3 ER/ 7K

6 innings/ 2 ER/ 8K

6 innings/ 3 ER/ 6K

6 innings/ 2 ER/ 10K

8 innings/ 2 ER/ 8K

4 innings/ 8 ER/ 5K

5 innings/ 2 ER/ 7K

5 innings/8 ER/ 5K

8 innings/1 ER/ 7K

7 innings/ 0 ER/ 11K

July 4th-7 innings/ 6 ER/ 3K

 

As you can see, he has a bunch of quality starts but always throws a terrible one in between that kills his ERA.

 

 

Seems like a perfect change of scenery type player. He's typically a well above average pitcher. He has struggled at home this year, which is strange. He has struggled against some mediocre offenses, while pitching well vs. good competition. His K rate is good. His HRs are inline with his career numbers. GB/FB ratio is at his career levels. His walk rate is higher than it should be this year, but he also has allowed a .331 average on batted balls in play. Career his BABIP is .287. His career worst is .315.

[CubsGM]

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8318218/Dodgers-out-of-mix-for-Sabathia,-Brewers-close

The Los Angeles Dodgers are out of the running for C.C. Sabathia, according to a major-league source, an indication that the Milwaukee Brewers may be nearing a trade for the Indians' left hander.

 

The Philadelphia Phillies and Tampa Bay Rays also are bidding for Sabathia, but neither of those clubs are expected to top the Brewers' offer.

 

Class AA outfielder Matt LaPorta is the centerpeice of the Brewers' proposal. The Indians also are expected to receive two more prospects in the deal.

 

So basically it's over.

[CubsGM]

cleaveland.com :

Minneapolis _ If the Milwaukee Brewers sweeten the deal for C.C. Sabathia today or tomorrow, the reigning American League Cy Young winner should be making his next start for them on Tuesday.

 

The Brewers have already agreed to give up outfielder Matt LaPorta, who could be playing left field for the Indians by midseason next year. The Indians, however, want an upgrade from the two other prospects they've been offered for Sabathia.

 

It's not known who those two prospects are, but if the Indians can get either Class A third baseman Taylor Green or Class AA outfielder Michael Brantley, LaPorta's teammate at Class AA Huntsville, as the second player in the trade, it seems a deal could be struck.

 

The Indians would also get a third player.

 

Right now it's a four-team race for Sabathia with the Brewers leading the way followed by the Dodgers, Philadelphia and Tampa Bay.

 

If the Dodgers can improve on their center piece to the trade, they might land the 6-7 left-hander. Right now, the Indians like the second and third players the Dodgers have offered more than auxiliary pieces they've been offered from the Brewers.

 

The Phillies, who think Sabathia can pitch them deep into the postseason this year, are offering several prospects, but they're all in the lower minors. Among the players the Phillies are offering are second baseman Adrian Cardenas and left-hander Antonio Bastardo.

 

The Devil Rays have several prospects that interest the Indians, but they have not jumped into the bidding with gusto. They do have a scout watching the Indians play the Twins.

[Old Style]

If we can't get CC, then I pray he goes anywhere but Milwaukee. They've been the team that's worried me all along, even when they were in 4th. I'd love for Sabathia to go to the AL, but outside the division in the NL wouldn't be all bad.

[roadster]

cleaveland.com :

Minneapolis _ If the Milwaukee Brewers sweeten the deal for C.C. Sabathia today or tomorrow, the reigning American League Cy Young winner should be making his next start for them on Tuesday.

 

The Brewers have already agreed to give up outfielder Matt LaPorta, who could be playing left field for the Indians by midseason next year. The Indians, however, want an upgrade from the two other prospects they've been offered for Sabathia.

 

It's not known who those two prospects are, but if the Indians can get either Class A third baseman Taylor Green or Class AA outfielder Michael Brantley, LaPorta's teammate at Class AA Huntsville, as the second player in the trade, it seems a deal could be struck.

 

The Indians would also get a third player.

 

Right now it's a four-team race for Sabathia with the Brewers leading the way followed by the Dodgers, Philadelphia and Tampa Bay.

 

If the Dodgers can improve on their center piece to the trade, they might land the 6-7 left-hander. Right now, the Indians like the second and third players the Dodgers have offered more than auxiliary pieces they've been offered from the Brewers.

 

The Phillies, who think Sabathia can pitch them deep into the postseason this year, are offering several prospects, but they're all in the lower minors. Among the players the Phillies are offering are second baseman Adrian Cardenas and left-hander Antonio Bastardo.

 

The Devil Rays have several prospects that interest the Indians, but they have not jumped into the bidding with gusto. They do have a scout watching the Indians play the Twins.

 

This is from Phil Rogers in the Sunday Trib (no links, sorry):

 

Cleveland has its eye on third baseman Mat Gamel and Taylor Green, along with outfielder Matt LaPorta in any CC Sabathia trade with Milwaukee. There's some speculation the Brewers might include J.J. Hardy as many in the organization feel Alcides Escobar can step in at shortstop.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Oh man, Hardy + LaPorta for Sabathia would be amazing. The downgrade from Hardy to Escobar alone would negate much of what Sabathia would add.

[RammyFanny]

The Los Angeles Dodgers are out of the running for C.C. Sabathia, according to a major-league source, an indication that the Milwaukee Brewers may be nearing a trade for the Indians' left hander.

The Philadelphia Phillies and Tampa Bay Rays also are bidding for Sabathia, but neither of those clubs are expected to top the Brewers' offer.

Class AA outfielder Matt LaPorta is the centerpeice of the Brewers' proposal. The Indians also are expected to receive two more prospects in the deal.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8318218/Dodgers-out-of-mix-for-Sabathia,-Brewers-close??CMP=OTC-K9B140813162&ATT=3498

[SouthSideRyan]

I don't understand this Escobar love.

[RedFlash]

The last 3 years he's had an ERA+ of 115, 115, and 119. Each of those years he's had an ERA under 4, with 2 of those season in the AL East. I think he's very likely to have a good second half, the only thing that really worries me is his injuries. I think it would be stupid not to get him considering it will barely cost anything, player wise. I don't see who else we can get, unless the Braves or Astros are looking to deal Hudson or Oswalt.

 

I still think we really need to snatch up Milton Bradley.

 

Let's look at Ted Lilly. 3 of his last 4 yrs in the AL his ERA+ were 102, 119, 106 (80 being the lowest in that 4 yrs period). Lilly was able to rebound from a very crappy 2005, to be able to become a very solid #3 option.

 

With the minimum of 20 starts/appearances in a seasons, Burnett has put up ERA+ OF 104, 122, 112, AND 115 in the NL. So, yes getting CC would make the rotation even stronger, but what the Cubs need is a legit #2 (or an ace), to push Lilly to 3, and Dempster to 4. And Burnett would do that.

 

The difference between the Brewers and the Cubs, is that the Brewers need an impact player, whereas the Cubs are focusing on making themselves deeper. I know the Cubs are said to be lukewarm at acquiring Burnett, but wait til the Brewers acquire CC, and I guarantee Hendry and co, will begin to kick the tires on AJ.

[ConstableRabbit]

Oh man, Hardy + LaPorta for Sabathia would be amazing. The downgrade from Hardy to Escobar alone would negate much of what Sabathia would add.

I agree

[TruffleShuffle]

i don't see them trading hardy

[RammyFanny]

Hey, at least we get a mention from SI today:

The Rays, Cubs and Phillies have been among other teams pursuing Sabathia, the 2007 American League Cy Young winner who's on the precipice of free agency.

The Cubs and Phillies would appear to have an interest in Sabathia strong enough to match that of the Brewers, but Chicago and Philadelphia would have to dig deep into their prospect stash to try to match Milwaukee. Their minor leagues are said to be "not deep.''

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/jon_heyman/07/06/scoop.sunday/?eref=sircrc

[razzzorsharp]

http://castrovince.mlblogs.com/archives/2008/07/cc_to_the_brew_crew_done_deal.html

 

We'll see what comes of that.