CC Sabathia Traded to Brewers (for LaPorta + Prospects)

[17 Seconds]

So with these names thrown about does this mean the Cubs are out of the bidding? I can't see anybody in the Cubs system that would interest the Indians that much, unless they believed that Hill could turn it around and the Cubs were offering Marmol, Pie, etc.

 

LaPorta is the only Brewers name the Cubs can't match, imo. Green and Cain aren't anything special.

 

Gamel and Escobar?

[JimSorgi]

Oh man, no one is interested in Burnett? The Cubs have got to get him now.

[BigSlick]

Gosh I would love to get CC just even if its just to block the Brewers from getting him, even if he doesn't necessarily upgrade our staff that well.

 

OH well, its a message to Hendry to shore up that farm system, if you want to make some midseason trades, you better load yourself up with a couple bullets you are willing to unload.

 

Burnett would be nice. Bedard no thanks.

[RynoRules]

I read on ESPN's Rumor Central that the Jays are not happy with their SS's and will be looking for one in any Burnett deal.

 

Mr. Cedeno, your table is ready.

[davell]

I keep looking for someone else who's not really on the radar for us to snag, but can't find anyone. Assuming we don't have the goods to get CC, we're not interested in Burnett(which I hope isn't the case) and Harden doesn't go anywhere because they're in the race, does anyone else see ANYONE out there who can actually UPGRADE the rotation from where it is right now?

[illiniguy]

I keep looking for someone else who's not really on the radar for us to snag, but can't find anyone. Assuming we don't have the goods to get CC, we're not interested in Burnett(which I hope isn't the case) and Harden doesn't go anywhere because they're in the race, does anyone else see ANYONE out there who can actually UPGRADE the rotation from where it is right now?

Rich Hill

[Little Slide Rooter]

I have to agree with Derwood. The Brewers trading for a rental of Sabathia doesn't necessarily put them in the playoffs. Think about it. A pitcher pitches every 5th game, so an impact pitcher only gives you so many games advantage of the course of the regular season. Impact pitchers have the most value when you are in the playoffs. A position player upgrade theoretically could propel them into the playoffs more than a starter because the position player plays every day. So a trade for Sabathia would make the most impact for a division leader who needs more pitching than a team trying to catch up. Clearly, he'd help the Brewers, but it's assuming a bit of a risk because it doesn't "guarantee" a playoff spot.

 

Its not really about will he put them into the playoffs so much as they are trading away top prospects for a guy who might get them into the playoffs, and will no doubt be skipping town this off season. Its a hell of a gamble.

[Little Slide Rooter]

I keep looking for someone else who's not really on the radar for us to snag, but can't find anyone. Assuming we don't have the goods to get CC, we're not interested in Burnett(which I hope isn't the case) and Harden doesn't go anywhere because they're in the race, does anyone else see ANYONE out there who can actually UPGRADE the rotation from where it is right now?

Rich Hill

 

Matt Cain?

[Joe_Cub]

I have to agree with Derwood. The Brewers trading for a rental of Sabathia doesn't necessarily put them in the playoffs. Think about it. A pitcher pitches every 5th game, so an impact pitcher only gives you so many games advantage of the course of the regular season. Impact pitchers have the most value when you are in the playoffs. A position player upgrade theoretically could propel them into the playoffs more than a starter because the position player plays every day. So a trade for Sabathia would make the most impact for a division leader who needs more pitching than a team trying to catch up. Clearly, he'd help the Brewers, but it's assuming a bit of a risk because it doesn't "guarantee" a playoff spot.

 

Its not really about will he put them into the playoffs so much as they are trading away top prospects for a guy who might get them into the playoffs, and will no doubt be skipping town this off season. Its a hell of a gamble.

 

brewers are one game behind st louis for the wildcard.

[Outshined_One]

So with these names thrown about does this mean the Cubs are out of the bidding? I can't see anybody in the Cubs system that would interest the Indians that much, unless they believed that Hill could turn it around and the Cubs were offering Marmol, Pie, etc.

 

LaPorta is the only Brewers name the Cubs can't match, imo. Green and Cain aren't anything special.

 

Gamel and Escobar?

 

I meant among those three names mentioned in the rumored deal. Green is not going to be sticking at 3B and will lose quite a bit of value when he moves into the OF. Cain has primarily played RF and hasn't shown anything close to the power and hitting needed to be of any value there. The Cubs can't match Gamel or LaPorta.

 

And, frankly, Escobar is not as valuable as people think. He doesn't hit for much power and his IsoD is putrid. I wouldn't be surprised if he turns out to be Ronny Cedeno II.

[illiniguy]

I keep looking for someone else who's not really on the radar for us to snag, but can't find anyone. Assuming we don't have the goods to get CC, we're not interested in Burnett(which I hope isn't the case) and Harden doesn't go anywhere because they're in the race, does anyone else see ANYONE out there who can actually UPGRADE the rotation from where it is right now?

Rich Hill

 

Matt Cain?

He could be available, but I am not sure why. The hardest thing to get is good, young pitching. The Giants have it. Why the hell would they start to move it now?

[italianocubsfan7]

Why not go for A.J. Burnett? It will take considerably less players (like two, maybe three) to get him and he's under contract past this season (I think). Plus, don't you think from Burnett's perspective that he might do a little if not a whole lot better in the National League. I like Ronny Cedeno, but we need another starting pitcher. Case closed. Make this deal now:

 

Cubs:

RHP Burnett

 

Blue Jays:

SS Ronny Cedeno

LHP Rich Hill

PTBNL

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

If we lose out on Sabathia, which it appears we will, I'd like to see if the Cubs could persuade the Braves to deal Hudson.

[CubColtPacer]

Why not go for A.J. Burnett? It will take considerably less players (like two, maybe three) to get him and he's under contract past this season (I think). Plus, don't you think from Burnett's perspective that he might do a little if not a whole lot better in the National League. I like Ronny Cedeno, but we need another starting pitcher. Case closed. Make this deal now:

 

Cubs:

RHP Burnett

 

Blue Jays:

SS Ronny Cedeno

LHP Rich Hill

PTBNL

 

There's several issues with Burnett.

 

1) He hasn't been any better than Jason Marquis this season. Could he suddenly get better moving to the NL? Probably. How much better? Unknown. He's got great career numbers, but he hasn't shown any consistency this year. In his last 7 starts, he's given up 2 runs or less in 4 of them, but in the other 3 he's given up 8 runs a start.

 

2) He has an opt out clause after the season. So if he's good, the Cubs lose him. If he stinks, the Cubs have to keep him for 2 more years at 12 million per year.

 

3)He does still have that long injury history, so even if he is good, he could get hurt the day after the trade.

 

Of course the main positive is that he has proved that at times, he has been a very dominant pitcher. Is that worth all the issues? Maybe. I certainly wouldn't trade Hill to go get him though. I'd rather take the risk on Hill suddenly finding it than gamble on Burnett suddenly finding it, especially since Burnett's gamble if gone wrong also puts a significant dent on the payroll and requires us to also lose our only backup SS.

[anabiono]

Why not go for A.J. Burnett? It will take considerably less players (like two, maybe three) to get him and he's under contract past this season (I think). Plus, don't you think from Burnett's perspective that he might do a little if not a whole lot better in the National League. I like Ronny Cedeno, but we need another starting pitcher. Case closed. Make this deal now:

 

Cubs:

RHP Burnett

 

Blue Jays:

SS Ronny Cedeno

LHP Rich Hill

PTBNL

 

hell no...rich hill does not need to go anywhere near this deal...rich hill for sabathia or harden?...ok...

 

for burnett...no way

[Outshined_One]

Why not go for A.J. Burnett? It will take considerably less players (like two, maybe three) to get him and he's under contract past this season (I think). Plus, don't you think from Burnett's perspective that he might do a little if not a whole lot better in the National League. I like Ronny Cedeno, but we need another starting pitcher. Case closed. Make this deal now:

 

Cubs:

RHP Burnett

 

Blue Jays:

SS Ronny Cedeno

LHP Rich Hill

PTBNL

 

Considering Hill's value is at an all-time low, I'd rather wait and see if he can get back on track before we consider throwing him under the bus as a throw-in for a trade.

[cybercub]

I would think Cleveland would be more interested in some combination of young hitters AND pitchers for Sabathia.

 

Some combination of Hoffpauir, McGahee, Pie etc etc and Gallagher, Hill, Marshall etc etc would seem like a better deal than just 2 hitting prospects.

[VanceJergins]

I would think Cleveland would be more interested in some combination of young hitters AND pitchers for Sabathia.

 

Some combination of Hoffpauir, McGahee, Pie etc etc and Gallagher, Hill, Marshall etc etc would seem like a better deal than just 2 hitting prospects.

 

 

Guys like Hoffpauir and McGahee are nothing more than throw-ins. Pie still has value but it's dropped this year. However, I think a package of something like Vitters, Pie, and Gallagher is quite a package.

[VanceJergins]

Why not go for A.J. Burnett? It will take considerably less players (like two, maybe three) to get him and he's under contract past this season (I think). Plus, don't you think from Burnett's perspective that he might do a little if not a whole lot better in the National League. I like Ronny Cedeno, but we need another starting pitcher. Case closed. Make this deal now:

 

Cubs:

RHP Burnett

 

Blue Jays:

SS Ronny Cedeno

LHP Rich Hill

PTBNL

 

Considering nobody wants Burnett, we shouldn't have to give up that much. I would guess something like Cedeno and a throw-in would be enough if we took most of his salary.

[SouthSideRyan]

I would think Cleveland would be more interested in some combination of young hitters AND pitchers for Sabathia.

 

Some combination of Hoffpauir, McGahee, Pie etc etc and Gallagher, Hill, Marshall etc etc would seem like a better deal than just 2 hitting prospects.

 

Hoffpauir and McGhee won't bring anyone to the table. Nor will Hill at this juncture as anything more than a throw in.

 

Gallagher, Marshall, and Pie would be a start.

[SouthSideRyan]

Why not go for A.J. Burnett? It will take considerably less players (like two, maybe three) to get him and he's under contract past this season (I think). Plus, don't you think from Burnett's perspective that he might do a little if not a whole lot better in the National League. I like Ronny Cedeno, but we need another starting pitcher. Case closed. Make this deal now:

 

Cubs:

RHP Burnett

 

Blue Jays:

SS Ronny Cedeno

LHP Rich Hill

PTBNL

 

There's several issues with Burnett.

 

1) He hasn't been any better than Jason Marquis this season. Could he suddenly get better moving to the NL? Probably. How much better? Unknown. He's got great career numbers, but he hasn't shown any consistency this year. In his last 7 starts, he's given up 2 runs or less in 4 of them, but in the other 3 he's given up 8 runs a start.

 

2) He has an opt out clause after the season. So if he's good, the Cubs lose him. If he stinks, the Cubs have to keep him for 2 more years at 12 million per year.

 

3)He does still have that long injury history, so even if he is good, he could get hurt the day after the trade.

 

Of course the main positive is that he has proved that at times, he has been a very dominant pitcher. Is that worth all the issues? Maybe. I certainly wouldn't trade Hill to go get him though. I'd rather take the risk on Hill suddenly finding it than gamble on Burnett suddenly finding it, especially since Burnett's gamble if gone wrong also puts a significant dent on the payroll and requires us to also lose our only backup SS.

 

Burnett only looks like he's been as bad as Marquis because Marquis has a great defense backing him up. They have similar HR rates, and Burnett smokes him at K/BB. I don't judge a pitcher solely on DIPs/FIP but when you have a glaring difference like there is for Burnett compared to Marquis I take notice.

 

Burnett's never been this bad before and he's only 31. There's no reason to believe he won't be at worst league average the rest of the way and his peripherals point to him being much better than that.

 

Best of all he's cheap. Cedeno + junk should get him.

[VanceJergins]

Why not go for A.J. Burnett? It will take considerably less players (like two, maybe three) to get him and he's under contract past this season (I think). Plus, don't you think from Burnett's perspective that he might do a little if not a whole lot better in the National League. I like Ronny Cedeno, but we need another starting pitcher. Case closed. Make this deal now:

 

Cubs:

RHP Burnett

 

Blue Jays:

SS Ronny Cedeno

LHP Rich Hill

PTBNL

 

There's several issues with Burnett.

 

1) He hasn't been any better than Jason Marquis this season. Could he suddenly get better moving to the NL? Probably. How much better? Unknown. He's got great career numbers, but he hasn't shown any consistency this year. In his last 7 starts, he's given up 2 runs or less in 4 of them, but in the other 3 he's given up 8 runs a start.

 

2) He has an opt out clause after the season. So if he's good, the Cubs lose him. If he stinks, the Cubs have to keep him for 2 more years at 12 million per year.

 

3)He does still have that long injury history, so even if he is good, he could get hurt the day after the trade.

 

Of course the main positive is that he has proved that at times, he has been a very dominant pitcher. Is that worth all the issues? Maybe. I certainly wouldn't trade Hill to go get him though. I'd rather take the risk on Hill suddenly finding it than gamble on Burnett suddenly finding it, especially since Burnett's gamble if gone wrong also puts a significant dent on the payroll and requires us to also lose our only backup SS.

 

Burnett only looks like he's been as bad as Marquis because Marquis has a great defense backing him up. They have similar HR rates, and Burnett smokes him at K/BB. I don't judge a pitcher solely on DIPs/FIP but when you have a glaring difference like there is for Burnett compared to Marquis I take notice.

 

Burnett's never been this bad before and he's only 31. There's no reason to believe he won't be at worst league average the rest of the way and his peripherals point to him being much better than that.

 

Best of all he's cheap. Cedeno + junk should get him.

 

Yeah, looking at their careers, Burnett's numbers are much more likely to improve, while Marquis will probably stay the same or get worse. Although, Burnett is much more likely to get hurt.

[CubColtPacer]

Why not go for A.J. Burnett? It will take considerably less players (like two, maybe three) to get him and he's under contract past this season (I think). Plus, don't you think from Burnett's perspective that he might do a little if not a whole lot better in the National League. I like Ronny Cedeno, but we need another starting pitcher. Case closed. Make this deal now:

 

Cubs:

RHP Burnett

 

Blue Jays:

SS Ronny Cedeno

LHP Rich Hill

PTBNL

 

There's several issues with Burnett.

 

1) He hasn't been any better than Jason Marquis this season. Could he suddenly get better moving to the NL? Probably. How much better? Unknown. He's got great career numbers, but he hasn't shown any consistency this year. In his last 7 starts, he's given up 2 runs or less in 4 of them, but in the other 3 he's given up 8 runs a start.

 

2) He has an opt out clause after the season. So if he's good, the Cubs lose him. If he stinks, the Cubs have to keep him for 2 more years at 12 million per year.

 

3)He does still have that long injury history, so even if he is good, he could get hurt the day after the trade.

 

Of course the main positive is that he has proved that at times, he has been a very dominant pitcher. Is that worth all the issues? Maybe. I certainly wouldn't trade Hill to go get him though. I'd rather take the risk on Hill suddenly finding it than gamble on Burnett suddenly finding it, especially since Burnett's gamble if gone wrong also puts a significant dent on the payroll and requires us to also lose our only backup SS.

 

Burnett only looks like he's been as bad as Marquis because Marquis has a great defense backing him up. They have similar HR rates, and Burnett smokes him at K/BB. I don't judge a pitcher solely on DIPs/FIP but when you have a glaring difference like there is for Burnett compared to Marquis I take notice.

 

Burnett's never been this bad before and he's only 31. There's no reason to believe he won't be at worst league average the rest of the way and his peripherals point to him being much better than that.

 

Best of all he's cheap. Cedeno + junk should get him.

 

Yeah, looking at their careers, Burnett's numbers are much more likely to improve, while Marquis will probably stay the same or get worse. Although, Burnett is much more likely to get hurt.

 

I wasn't really trying to compare Burnett to Marquis in any way but trying to give a visual example of how bad Burnett has been this season. If I had to choose Burnett or Marquis to be a better pitcher over the next 3 years, I'd bet on Burnett at least 99 out of 100 times.

 

I'd be careful using Burnett's peripherals though to say that he's due for a rapid improvement. For example, his LOB percentage. It's a 65.9 percent, which is low. At the same time, that's because Burnett simply hasn't had the same type of stuff from start to start. In many starts, he's been dominant and hasn't had many runners to leave on base. When he doesn't have his best stuff, he gets absolutely pounded. That leads itself to a deceiving lob percentage because when there are runners on base, that is a huge indication with Burnett that he's going to continue leaving easy pitches to hit over the plate. That's not the case with normal pitchers.

Any pitcher who has such a wide disparity in their starts (and believe me, there aren't many of them) are going to have better peripherals than their numbers. I would suspect an improvement from his K percentage, but that's not going to get rid of the disaster starts, and those starts are the only reason his numbers are that bad.

[anabiono]

i know it is slightly stupid...but maybe burnett just needs a change of scenery?

[Little Slide Rooter]

I would think Cleveland would be more interested in some combination of young hitters AND pitchers for Sabathia.

 

Some combination of Hoffpauir, McGahee, Pie etc etc and Gallagher, Hill, Marshall etc etc would seem like a better deal than just 2 hitting prospects.

 

 

Guys like Hoffpauir and McGahee are nothing more than throw-ins. Pie still has value but it's dropped this year. However, I think a package of something like Vitters, Pie, and Gallagher is quite a package.

 

I know Hoffpauir is 28, but he may have more value than people think. Hes OPSin over 1.000 in AAA, and had some success in his short stint on the big league club. Granted, he wont net us a big name by himself, but I'd be surprised if some scouts arent watching him very closely in the corn fields.