CC Sabathia Traded to Brewers (for LaPorta + Prospects)

[Little Slide Rooter]

Bruce weighs in that the Cubs really don't have much of a chance.

 

LInk.

 

As for the Cubs, they appear to be long shots to acquire Sabathia, but not because they don't have the volume or the quality to offer Cleveland, but because the trading matchups might not be right.

 

That's the assessment of several baseball people queried since the middle of last week.

 

Sources say Cubs general manager Jim Hendry has been in touch with Cleveland GM Mark Shapiro. Those same people say the Cubs' system is valued around baseball, but that if a matching of specific needs can't be made and another club can fit that bill, there will be little Hendry can do. In other words, if the Indians were looking to build long term, they might be willing to go for a Vitters-type player instead of someone who can play next year or even now in the big leagues.

 

I may be wrong, but it really sounds like Bruce is sugarcoating things.

 

We have the talent, but we don't match up? Yeah, in other words, we don't have jack.

 

We've got a really good farm system. Its just not as good as all the other ones.

[erik316wttn]

If San Fran is shopping Cain, I think we'd match up pretty nice with them. They need quantity, and i'm sure a Pie/Gallagher/Cedeno/+ offer could get their attention depending on how they view these guys.

 

Frankly, I think Milwaukee matches up better with San Francisco than anyone else. San Francisco has good pitching, but they need help across the diamond and power bats in the worst way. LaPorta would be a great fit as a RH power hitter. Alcides Escobar would be a massive upgrade over whatever they trot out there at SS (as would many other people). Cole Gillespie would fit in nicely in RF. Angel Salome would be a good fit, considering Bengie Molina will turn 35 next year.

 

I don't see why Milwaukee doesn't try making a run at Cain or Lincecum.

 

I could possibly see them dealing Cain. I don't see them dealing Lincecum until his contract year if they're still terrible.

[erik316wttn]

Report: Dodgers trying for Sabathia, Wilson

 

The Dodgers are currently making runs at both C.C. Sabathia and the Pirates' Jack Wilson, according to FOXSports.com's Ken Rosenthal.

 

Complicating their efforts for Sabathia is that one or two players the Indians want are also being discussed in the Wilson deal. Rosenthal hints that 3B Andy LaRoche, RHP James McDonald and SS Chin-Lung Hu are "likely drawing consideration" from Cleveland, though he offers nothing to back that up. Jul. 4 - 7:00 pm et

 

Lets hope the Dodgers can step up their offer here. While Id rather CC stay in the AL, Id much rather him go to the Dodgers. Also, the Dodgers might be inclined to outbid the Brewers if it comes down to it, as they are more likely to be able to offer him an extension. If they're truely serious, they migh need to add Kemp, Ethier, or Loney to the deal. What if we were to try to get in the action with a 3 team deal and get Brad Penny or Derrek Lowe from the Dodgers, just for the sake of blocking the Brewers?

Long term we might be better off if the Brewers get Sabathia.

why?

short term it makes me nervous...

 

i think the brewers are a little bit crazy to do this...and if they do they have to go after another bullpen arm...

 

if they get C.C., they won't be resigning him and they won't resign sheets...so they are obviously in win this year mode

 

 

You answered your own question.

[Little Slide Rooter]

If San Fran is shopping Cain, I think we'd match up pretty nice with them. They need quantity, and i'm sure a Pie/Gallagher/Cedeno/+ offer could get their attention depending on how they view these guys.

 

Frankly, I think Milwaukee matches up better with San Francisco than anyone else. San Francisco has good pitching, but they need help across the diamond and power bats in the worst way. LaPorta would be a great fit as a RH power hitter. Alcides Escobar would be a massive upgrade over whatever they trot out there at SS (as would many other people). Cole Gillespie would fit in nicely in RF. Angel Salome would be a good fit, considering Bengie Molina will turn 35 next year.

 

I don't see why Milwaukee doesn't try making a run at Cain or Lincecum.

 

I could possibly see them dealing Cain. I don't see them dealing Lincecum until his contract year if they're still terrible.

 

Although that they've finally gotten rid of Bonds, they till have dinsaurs like Durham, Winn, and Vizquel on that team, plus the idiotic Zito contract. They will need something to build on, so would you rather do it on 1 position player or an ace caliber pitcher? Theres really no need to move either of those 2, especially Linecum. He wont be do for a pay day any time soon. The thing about CC is that hes an ace pitcher with an expiring contract on a go nowhere team. Linecum is an ace pitcher with several years of service left on a go nowhere team.

[Outshined_One]

I could possibly see them dealing Cain. I don't see them dealing Lincecum until his contract year if they're still terrible.

 

They've got pitching prospects out the rear, but they have next to nothing position prospect-wise in their system. If they don't think Lincecum is going to stay healthy or Cain will get too expensive too quickly, why not trade either for a haul of top position prospects?

[17 Seconds]

Bruce weighs in that the Cubs really don't have much of a chance.

 

LInk.

 

As for the Cubs, they appear to be long shots to acquire Sabathia, but not because they don't have the volume or the quality to offer Cleveland, but because the trading matchups might not be right.

 

That's the assessment of several baseball people queried since the middle of last week.

 

Sources say Cubs general manager Jim Hendry has been in touch with Cleveland GM Mark Shapiro. Those same people say the Cubs' system is valued around baseball, but that if a matching of specific needs can't be made and another club can fit that bill, there will be little Hendry can do. In other words, if the Indians were looking to build long term, they might be willing to go for a Vitters-type player instead of someone who can play next year or even now in the big leagues.

 

I may be wrong, but it really sounds like Bruce is sugarcoating things.

 

We have the talent, but we don't match up? Yeah, in other words, we don't have jack.

 

We've got a really good farm system. Its just not as good as all the other ones.

 

Yeah, if by "really good" you mean terrible and one of the worst in baseball.

[RedFlash]

Bruce weighs in that the Cubs really don't have much of a chance.

 

LInk.

 

As for the Cubs, they appear to be long shots to acquire Sabathia, but not because they don't have the volume or the quality to offer Cleveland, but because the trading matchups might not be right.

 

That's the assessment of several baseball people queried since the middle of last week.

 

Sources say Cubs general manager Jim Hendry has been in touch with Cleveland GM Mark Shapiro. Those same people say the Cubs' system is valued around baseball, but that if a matching of specific needs can't be made and another club can fit that bill, there will be little Hendry can do. In other words, if the Indians were looking to build long term, they might be willing to go for a Vitters-type player instead of someone who can play next year or even now in the big leagues.

 

I may be wrong, but it really sounds like Bruce is sugarcoating things.

 

We have the talent, but we don't match up? Yeah, in other words, we don't have jack.

 

We've got a really good farm system. Its just not as good as all the other ones.

 

Yeah, if by "really good" you mean terrible and one of the worst in baseball.

 

I wouldn't call the Cubs system "one of the worst in baseball." That's being overdramatic. The Cubs got some good talent, but they are still in the early stages of development.

[17 Seconds]

Bruce weighs in that the Cubs really don't have much of a chance.

 

LInk.

 

As for the Cubs, they appear to be long shots to acquire Sabathia, but not because they don't have the volume or the quality to offer Cleveland, but because the trading matchups might not be right.

 

That's the assessment of several baseball people queried since the middle of last week.

 

Sources say Cubs general manager Jim Hendry has been in touch with Cleveland GM Mark Shapiro. Those same people say the Cubs' system is valued around baseball, but that if a matching of specific needs can't be made and another club can fit that bill, there will be little Hendry can do. In other words, if the Indians were looking to build long term, they might be willing to go for a Vitters-type player instead of someone who can play next year or even now in the big leagues.

 

I may be wrong, but it really sounds like Bruce is sugarcoating things.

 

We have the talent, but we don't match up? Yeah, in other words, we don't have jack.

 

We've got a really good farm system. Its just not as good as all the other ones.

 

Yeah, if by "really good" you mean terrible and one of the worst in baseball.

 

I wouldn't call the Cubs system "one of the worst in baseball." That's being overdramatic. The Cubs got some good talent, but they are still in the early stages of development.

 

I don't think it's being overdramatic at all. Last year Baseball America ranked the Cubs 20th and it's likely gotten worse since.

[CubColtPacer]

Honestly, I'm not even sure the Giants are going to sell this year at the deadline. Even though they're 10 games under .500, they might also see that they are just 4 games out of a playoff spot right now. I think they're crazy to think that they can last the entire season, but with that small deficit I can definitely believe the Giants organization might think that they're right in the thick of it.

[TruffleShuffle]

yeah some of you need to be realistic here, the cubs have a very lousy system. as mentioned, they were ranked 20th out of 30 last year, and that included soto - who won't be traded and no longer qualifies as a prospect. nobody else has really broken out to make themselves look like premium prospects, and the stars of guys like colvin and veal continue to dim.

[RedFlash]

Bruce weighs in that the Cubs really don't have much of a chance.

 

LInk.

 

As for the Cubs, they appear to be long shots to acquire Sabathia, but not because they don't have the volume or the quality to offer Cleveland, but because the trading matchups might not be right.

 

That's the assessment of several baseball people queried since the middle of last week.

 

Sources say Cubs general manager Jim Hendry has been in touch with Cleveland GM Mark Shapiro. Those same people say the Cubs' system is valued around baseball, but that if a matching of specific needs can't be made and another club can fit that bill, there will be little Hendry can do. In other words, if the Indians were looking to build long term, they might be willing to go for a Vitters-type player instead of someone who can play next year or even now in the big leagues.

 

I may be wrong, but it really sounds like Bruce is sugarcoating things.

 

We have the talent, but we don't match up? Yeah, in other words, we don't have jack.

 

We've got a really good farm system. Its just not as good as all the other ones.

 

Yeah, if by "really good" you mean terrible and one of the worst in baseball.

 

I wouldn't call the Cubs system "one of the worst in baseball." That's being overdramatic. The Cubs got some good talent, but they are still in the early stages of development.

 

I don't think it's being overdramatic at all. Last year Baseball America ranked the Cubs 20th and it's likely gotten worse since.

 

I think it's overstated, moreso then overdramatic (sorry for the the word). I think most of the Cubs talented, are underdeveloped, and can't really be properly scouted, until they've been in the minors for a couple of yrs.

[davell]

While the Cubs system is probably one of the 10 worst in the majors, if you count guys who have "graduated" from minor league status, I think we can compete for just about anyone. (CC excluded, as what Bruce said makes sense to me, sometimes there's just not a fit).

 

The guys I'm figuring are available for the right player are as follows:

 

Cedeno, Murton, Patterson, Pie, Colvin, Hoffpauir, Castillo

 

Gallagher, Marshall, Veal, Ceda, Wuertz

 

Could some of last year's class be available as well? Thomas or Vitters? Maybe Russell or Smith? I think it's possible, but Vitters would be the only one who has solid value and you're still trading him too early to maximize his value longterm as well.

 

 

I figure Colvin has very little value at this point with his poor season. Murton has little value to other teams since he's still on our team as it is. I thought he'd be gone long before now anyway. Cedeno and Patterson both probably have more value than Murton, assuming teams see Patterson as an infielder anyway. Hoffpauir is a huge question mark. Career minor leaguer, putting up huge numbers everywhere he's been this year. While probably not sought after by any means, I'm thinking he does have SOME sort of value, more than just a total throwin. Castillo seems like a guy that if he continues doing what he's been doing, we could see him start showing up on top 100 lists fairly soon. After the success of Soto, maybe teams look at him as a nice chip. Pie is a huge question mark as well, my guess is value varies wildly from club to club.

 

Gallagher seems like a guy who would be in the top 50ish range of prospects at this point, if he hadn't graduated already. Our most valuable trade piece, unless some teams are ready to pay up for Vitters at this stage of his development. Veal has been better his second time around AA, certainly helping increae his value some from where it was at the beginning of the year. Probably in the 100-125ish range as far as all prospects go? Marshall is fairly established at the major league level now, is cheap too, so he has solid value if you ask me. Moreso than Veal anyway, I would think. Ceda probably is included in a lot of top 100 lists at this point, solid value to a lot of teams. I'm including Wuertz strictly because other teams probably are interested in relief help at the major league level and he could become a setup guy for a lot of teams(Ours possibly, assuming we let Howry walk after the season)

 

Bottom line though, while our actual top 10 prospects doesn't seem like much right now, I do think we have the pieces to go get a true impact guy, just probably not CC, because of the fit. Even with that being the probem though, if Hendry goes "all-in" at the last minute, it'd probably make the Indians think twice.

[UMFan83]

The Cubs system seems to produce a lot of one year wonders Brian Dopirak, Richard Lewis, Donaldson, Thomas, etc. But maybe all systems have those sorts of players, I dunno.

[Little Slide Rooter]

With the Cubs farm system, its not just the lack of quality players produced, its the amount of cant miss prospects that end up, well, missing. In recent years, what players have really come out of our system?

 

Kerry Wood

Carlos Zambrano

Geovany Soto

Carlos Marmol

Ryan Theriot

Dontrelle Willis

Todd Wellemyer

Mike Wuertz

Mark Prior

Rich Hill

Brendan Harris

 

Theres also a bunch of we'll see guys like Gallagher, Marshall, Pie, and Cedeno.

 

And maybe we have a bunch of role players that have come and gone throughout the years. Theres probably a few more, but Im drawing a blank.

[Backtobanks]

Bruce weighs in that the Cubs really don't have much of a chance.

 

LInk.

 

As for the Cubs, they appear to be long shots to acquire Sabathia, but not because they don't have the volume or the quality to offer Cleveland, but because the trading matchups might not be right.

 

That's the assessment of several baseball people queried since the middle of last week.

 

Sources say Cubs general manager Jim Hendry has been in touch with Cleveland GM Mark Shapiro. Those same people say the Cubs' system is valued around baseball, but that if a matching of specific needs can't be made and another club can fit that bill, there will be little Hendry can do. In other words, if the Indians were looking to build long term, they might be willing to go for a Vitters-type player instead of someone who can play next year or even now in the big leagues.

 

I may be wrong, but it really sounds like Bruce is sugarcoating things.

 

We have the talent, but we don't match up? Yeah, in other words, we don't have jack.

 

I don't think is sugarcoating anything. Some teams may want positional prospects while we may have an overabundance of pitching prospects or vice versa. A lot of times teams don't match up even though they might have valuable trading chips.

[rawaction]

With the Cubs farm system, its not just the lack of quality players produced, its the amount of cant miss prospects that end up, well, missing. In recent years, what players have really come out of our system?

 

Kerry Wood

Carlos Zambrano

Geovany Soto

Carlos Marmol

Ryan Theriot

Dontrelle Willis

Todd Wellemyer

Mike Wuertz

Mark Prior

Rich Hill

Brendan Harris

 

Theres also a bunch of we'll see guys like Gallagher, Marshall, Pie, and Cedeno.

 

And maybe we have a bunch of role players that have come and gone throughout the years. Theres probably a few more, but Im drawing a blank.

 

2008 Cubs have produced from their own system: Wood, Zambrano, Theriot, Soto, Marmol, Hill, Gallagher, Marshall, Wuertz, Cedeno. That's pretty good. Look around the league, not many teams can boast 3 all stars and that's not including Marmol, who's been one of the 2 relievers in baseball for nearly 2 years. Hill has played at an AS caliber in the past and Theriot has hovered around the top 10 in hitting all year long.

 

Then you throw in Wellemeyer, Harris, Willis, Prior, Garland, Juan Cruz, Patterson, Ohman, Sisco, Nolasco, Pinto, and Mitre.

 

I'd be very happy if the Cubs system can produce players like Z, Wood, Soto, Marmol and Hill every 5-6 years, add in a couple role players like Theriot, Wuertz and Cedeno, and be used to get guys like Lee and Ramirez.

[anabiono]

Report: Dodgers trying for Sabathia, Wilson

 

The Dodgers are currently making runs at both C.C. Sabathia and the Pirates' Jack Wilson, according to FOXSports.com's Ken Rosenthal.

 

Complicating their efforts for Sabathia is that one or two players the Indians want are also being discussed in the Wilson deal. Rosenthal hints that 3B Andy LaRoche, RHP James McDonald and SS Chin-Lung Hu are "likely drawing consideration" from Cleveland, though he offers nothing to back that up. Jul. 4 - 7:00 pm et

 

Lets hope the Dodgers can step up their offer here. While Id rather CC stay in the AL, Id much rather him go to the Dodgers. Also, the Dodgers might be inclined to outbid the Brewers if it comes down to it, as they are more likely to be able to offer him an extension. If they're truely serious, they migh need to add Kemp, Ethier, or Loney to the deal. What if we were to try to get in the action with a 3 team deal and get Brad Penny or Derrek Lowe from the Dodgers, just for the sake of blocking the Brewers?

Long term we might be better off if the Brewers get Sabathia.

why?

short term it makes me nervous...

 

i think the brewers are a little bit crazy to do this...and if they do they have to go after another bullpen arm...

 

if they get C.C., they won't be resigning him and they won't resign sheets...so they are obviously in win this year mode

 

 

You answered your own question.

 

oh come now...i gave responses as to why the SHORT TERM makes me nervous not the LONG TERM, which is what the question is referring to...

[Joe_Cub]

who's in charge of drafting for the brewers? let's trade for him.

[Bruce Miles]

I never get too caught up in those rankings. When the Cubs were ranked near the top, it was with Patterson, Kelton, Choi, Goldbach, Christensen, Hill, Cruz, Zambrano. And I got all kind of e-mails back in whatever year it was they drafted Brownlie, with everybody telling me all summer they just HAD to sign this guy. They did. You get Z out of that whole group, and yes, they did turn Choi and Hill into Lee and Ramirez.

 

As somebody pointed out above, they've got a nice handful of guys on their team from their own system. I think Tim Wilken knows what he's doing. I'm interested to see how it pans out.

 

I tried to point out in the story that the Cubs sytem is thought of just fine overall. It just doesn't seem to match up with what Cleveland needs right now.

[italianocubsfan7]

Don't know how much this is worth but Steve Phillips just stated on ESPN that the Cubs are the front runners for A.J. Burnett, assuming either the Brewers or Dodgers acquire Sabathia. He said a "nice package" around SS Ronny Cedeno and others would be good enough to make a deal with Toronto because Burnett has an opt-out clause in his contract after this season. At this point, I say we just go for Burnett, coming back to the NL is only going to do good things for him. Plus, you would have to give up a whole lot more to get C.C.

[RynoRules]

I never get too caught up in those rankings. When the Cubs were ranked near the top, it was with Patterson, Kelton, Choi, Goldbach, Christensen, Hill, Cruz, Zambrano. And I got all kind of e-mails back in whatever year it was they drafted Brownlie, with everybody telling me all summer they just HAD to sign this guy. They did. You get Z out of that whole group, and yes, they did turn Choi and Hill into Lee and Ramirez.

 

As somebody pointed out above, they've got a nice handful of guys on their team from their own system. I think Tim Wilken knows what he's doing. I'm interested to see how it pans out.

 

I tried to point out in the story that the Cubs sytem is thought of just fine overall. It just doesn't seem to match up with what Cleveland needs right now.

 

Bruce, what is the prevailing opinion around baseball in terms of where the strength of the system lies? High ceiling and raw in the lower levels seems to be the answer, rather than refined and close to ML-ready like the Brewers.

[RynoRules]

Don't know how much this is worth but Steve Phillips just stated on ESPN that the Cubs are the front runners for A.J. Burnett, assuming either the Brewers or Dodgers acquire Sabathia. He said a "nice package" around SS Ronny Cedeno and others would be good enough to make a deal with Toronto because Burnett has an opt-out clause in his contract after this season. At this point, I say we just go for Burnett, coming back to the NL is only going to do good things for him. Plus, you would have to give up a whole lot more to get C.C.

 

That brings up the most interesting question:

 

Would you rather "clean-out" the system for Sabathia or send Cedeno and a pitching prospect (Marshall?) for Burnett?

[anabiono]

senor bruce!!!

 

care to shed any light on what pitcher we are really really looking at right now...or is everything very hush hush?

[anabiono]

Don't know how much this is worth but Steve Phillips just stated on ESPN that the Cubs are the front runners for A.J. Burnett, assuming either the Brewers or Dodgers acquire Sabathia. He said a "nice package" around SS Ronny Cedeno and others would be good enough to make a deal with Toronto because Burnett has an opt-out clause in his contract after this season. At this point, I say we just go for Burnett, coming back to the NL is only going to do good things for him. Plus, you would have to give up a whole lot more to get C.C.

 

That brings up the most interesting question:

 

Would you rather "clean-out" the system for Sabathia or send Cedeno and a pitching prospect (Marshall?) for Burnett?

 

seeing as there is about a .5% chance we get sabathia...it is a no-brainer...the only thing that makes me worried is losing cedeno, who has been very valuable to us thus far...

 

i have wanted burnett since the offseason...he has struggled this year, but i still think it is the right move...

 

the only other pitcher i would really want would be harden, and that has got to be at about .0000000042% chance right now though

[Sammy Sofa]

Good God, Burnett's numbers over the last year are horrid.

 

Just say no.