The Return of Sammy Sosa?

[17 Seconds]

3 hours ago, Ding Dong Johnson said:

Some days I really miss PSD

I don't think people got this joke

[Thusly Boned]

4 minutes ago, 17 Seconds said:

I don't think people got this joke

I sure did

[soccer10k]

On 3/15/2024 at 5:05 PM, Stratos said:

It was a lot of fun, until we realized we were watching the WWE.   The league was probably juicing the balls too.  

If it was that easy to just take a bunch of steroids and hit 60 homers in a season, why weren't other guys able to do it?

[soccer10k]

13 hours ago, Rcal10 said:

I agree the Cubs should bring Sammy back. But I think you are doing many previous Cubs greats a disservice by suggested Sosa is the most important Cubs ever. He was a cheater and a terrible teammate. For those reasons I could not disagree more with you on your praise for him. But others who cheated during that time have been welcomed back by their team. So Sammy should as well. 

In the late 90's, you had 3-4 choices as a baseball fan as far as routinely watching a specific team.

You watched your local team(s).
You watched the Cubs on WGN.
You watched the Braves on TBS.

There are many thousands of people who are Cubs fans right now solely because of the 98 home run chase. I was already a Cubs fan but I was 13 that year and Sosa going after 60, plus the Cubs making a playoff push, certainly solidified that. I would watch the Cubs in the summer when school was out. And when school was in, I would come home and tune into the last couple innings on WGN to find out if Sammy homered or not.

So yeah, in terms of growing a fanbase, it's unlikely any other Cub had as much of an affect on that as Sammy.

[Sammy Sofa]

8 hours ago, Outshined_One said:

The discovery rule kicks in with these sorts of crimes. A shitass US Attorney (and there are plenty of them) could argue that no reasonable person would have been aware of the perjury under the circumstances, and date of Sosa's admission of the perjury would be the trigger for the limitations period to kick off, rather than the date of his original testimony.

At best, we'll get an extremely codeworded, vague, and mealy admission from Sammy that will be along the lines of, "I did things that were wrong," that won't implicate him as a perjurer.

He and Palmero were exposed as perjurers back when they were actually within the statute of limitations. Dude's got no reason to fear any kind of convoluted legal repercussion at this point.

Edited March 17, 2024 by Sammy Sofa

[BigbadB]

49 minutes ago, Sammy Sofa said:

He and Palmero were exposed as perjurers back when they were actually within the statute of limitations. Dude's got no reason to fear any kind of convoluted legal repercussion at this point.

It would probably be more court of public opinion than legal repercussion, but I'd venture to guess that very little of the public would somehow be shocked or dismayed if Sosa finally admitted his guilt. Basically, there really is no reason to hang onto the lie any further. Lying was always the thing I hated most about the steroid era. Sosa, Bonds and Clemens were the guys I hated most about the lying. Andy Pettitte pretty much admitted right away that he took them, and I don't put him in the same group as the liars. 

 

[BigbadB]

6 hours ago, soccer10k said:

If it was that easy to just take a bunch of steroids and hit 60 homers in a season, why weren't other guys able to do it?

There were plenty of guys whose numbers spiked during the steroid era. Maybe not to the 60 HR level, but there were guys who had never hit much more than 20 in a season that were hitting 40 and 50 all of a sudden. Bonds, McGuire and Sosa were already prolific HR hitters, so it would make sense that their numbers were still more impressive than the Greg Vaughns and Brady Andersons in the league.

[JudasIscariotTheBird]

19 hours ago, Hairyducked Idiot said:

 If a sport can be improved at through the use of PEDs, and that sport doesn't have an *extremely* rigorous anti-PED program that is constantly updated, then it is functionally impossible to reach high levels in that sport without using PEDs. Everyone's using them or no one is.

 

And that's the reason that PEDs need to be banned and rigorously tested for (or, alternately, made legal).  I don't buy that argument at all.  There very obviously could be generational talents that were in MLB, and they wound up having so-so careers AND were suspected of using PEDs merely because they played in a juicer era, and all while they played it by the rules.  It's a cancer diagnosis short of tragic.  

[CubinNY]

8 hours ago, soccer10k said:

In the late 90's, you had 3-4 choices as a baseball fan as far as routinely watching a specific team.

You watched your local team(s).
You watched the Cubs on WGN.
You watched the Braves on TBS.

There are many thousands of people who are Cubs fans right now solely because of the 98 home run chase. I was already a Cubs fan but I was 13 that year and Sosa going after 60, plus the Cubs making a playoff push, certainly solidified that. I would watch the Cubs in the summer when school was out. And when school was in, I would come home and tune into the last couple innings on WGN to find out if Sammy homered or not.

So yeah, in terms of growing a fanbase, it's unlikely any other Cub had as much of an affect on that as Sammy.

I was living in NYC at the time. Dominicans would write his HR totals on their back windows of their cars with the flag.

 

here is a link from 2012 from a bodega in the Bronx. He’s still a hero. 
 

http://brookeandphilsbigadventure.blogspot.com/2012/01/el-sammy-sosa-deli-things-you-find-in.html?m=1

Edited March 17, 2024 by CubinNY

[Rcal10]

19 hours ago, Derwood said:

I always thought people were pissed about him leaving the stadium early or whatever, not the steroid stuff

That too. Plus the general consensus that he was an awful teammate and only worried about his numbers. And then there is that little DV issue with him and the corked bat. All added up is why he isn’t welcome. But, IMO if he showed some integrity and owned up to everything he did, the Cubs should bring him back. After all, they also need to take some accountability in all Sosa did. They knew it and allowed it and even covered up for him. Others have been welcomed back from that time. He should be too, but after acknowledging what he did. The problem is he is too arrogant to admit fault. I get some don’t care about anything but his numbers. And to them he is a hero. But some do care. And apparently Ricketts is one of those who does. 

[Tryptamine]

Who said he's a hero? Let's face it, most of the players we like from the present and the past are jackasses and horsefeatherss. Short of committing a horrendous crime like Wander Franco, or being in the nearly unprecedented tier of horsefeatherss like Schilling/Huff, no one should be blackballed from their organization. 

[UMFan83]

 

10 hours ago, soccer10k said:

In the late 90's, you had 3-4 choices as a baseball fan as far as routinely watching a specific team.

You watched your local team(s).
You watched the Cubs on WGN.
You watched the Braves on TBS.

There are many thousands of people who are Cubs fans right now solely because of the 98 home run chase. I was already a Cubs fan but I was 13 that year and Sosa going after 60, plus the Cubs making a playoff push, certainly solidified that. I would watch the Cubs in the summer when school was out. And when school was in, I would come home and tune into the last couple innings on WGN to find out if Sammy homered or not.

So yeah, in terms of growing a fanbase, it's unlikely any other Cub had as much of an affect on that as Sammy.

For me personally, Sammy Sosa saved me from being a White Sox fan.  I was a fan of both teams growing up but if you put a gun to my head I would have said I preferred the White Sox by the slightest of margins.  The summer of 1998 made me fall in love with Sammy and the Cubs for life and I never looked back.  

Edited March 17, 2024 by UMFan83

[squally1313]

30 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

I get some don’t care about anything but his numbers.

This is really dismissive of how fun he was as a player for the fans in an era that was formative for a lot of people around here. The hop, the dugout camera celebration, the batting stance in general, sprinting out to RF (with the flag after 9/11), the two home runs that traveled approximately 1200 feet against Florida in the playoffs at wrigley. 
 

Ricketts literally writes a paycheck to McGwire. I’m not ignoring your points, especially the DV one, but I’ve been reading anti-Sammy arguments about the steroids and the corked bat for years and they are more often than not coded with bad motivations. 

[Cuzi]

I couldn't care less about Sammy Sosa, other than if MLB is going to be inducting guys like Mike Piazza and David Ortiz into the HoF, then Sammy Sosa, Mark McGwire, Barry Bonds, A-Rod, etc... should all be in the HoF too.

[Andy]

10 hours ago, soccer10k said:

In the late 90's, you had 3-4 choices as a baseball fan as far as routinely watching a specific team.

You watched your local team(s).
You watched the Cubs on WGN.
You watched the Braves on TBS.

There are many thousands of people who are Cubs fans right now solely because of the 98 home run chase. I was already a Cubs fan but I was 13 that year and Sosa going after 60, plus the Cubs making a playoff push, certainly solidified that. I would watch the Cubs in the summer when school was out. And when school was in, I would come home and tune into the last couple innings on WGN to find out if Sammy homered or not.

So yeah, in terms of growing a fanbase, it's unlikely any other Cub had as much of an affect on that as Sammy.

Color me in this group. I was a passive Braves fan as a little kid in S Carolina, moved to Indiana, and the first close friend I made basically made me watch the Cubs with him until I fell in love and switched allegiances. I have no idea, if you had to put a number on it, to what extent Sammy affected that decision by 13 year old me, but the number definitely was not zero.

[Rcal10]

16 minutes ago, squally1313 said:

This is really dismissive of how fun he was as a player for the fans in an era that was formative for a lot of people around here. The hop, the dugout camera celebration, the batting stance in general, sprinting out to RF (with the flag after 9/11), the two home runs that traveled approximately 1200 feet against Florida in the playoffs at wrigley. 
 

Ricketts literally writes a paycheck to McGwire. I’m not ignoring your points, especially the DV one, but I’ve been reading anti-Sammy arguments about the steroids and the corked bat for years and they are more often than not coded with bad motivations. 

When I say the numbers that also includes the flash. It was all a show to show everyone how great he was. And I do understand all of that brought people into baseball and the Cubs. I get it. And, honestly, I do see why he should be back in the Cubs family. But to me he needs to acknowledge what he did. Sorry, but to me interferon matters. As many have said, his fans don’t care anyway. So why not admit it? He didn’t bring me to baseball. I already loved it. Maybe that is why I don’t feel about him the way others do. 

[squally1313]

14 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

When I say the numbers that also includes the flash. It was all a show to show everyone how great he was.

What does that mean? How was this unique to Sosa?

[Sammy Sofa]

I always think it's funny when people are all up on Sosa's ego and character and whatever the hell when the other two modern Cubs up at his level in terms of BEING the team are guys like Sandberg (woof) and Grace (double woof).

[Derwood]

14 minutes ago, Sammy Sofa said:

I always think it's funny when people are all up on Sosa's ego and character and whatever the hell when the other two modern Cubs up at his level in terms of BEING the team are guys like Sandberg (woof) and Grace (double woof).

I was gonna say, has the organization made Sandberg "admit" to his wife sleeping her way through the clubhouse? Or Grace banging blackout drunk chicks he picked up at Murphy's? Let's not pretend that the team (or fans) has any set of consistent standards when it comes to the character of its former players...

[InSeungHo]

2 minutes ago, Derwood said:

I was gonna say, has the organization made Sandberg "admit" to his wife sleeping her way through the clubhouse? Or Grace banging blackout drunk chicks he picked up at Murphy's? Let's not pretend that the team (or fans) has any set of consistent standards when it comes to the character of its former players...

Well, two of those guys are white while the other isn't... 

[LBiittner]

11 minutes ago, Derwood said:

I was gonna say, has the organization made Sandberg "admit" to his wife sleeping her way through the clubhouse? Or Grace banging blackout drunk chicks he picked up at Murphy's? Let's not pretend that the team (or fans) has any set of consistent standards when it comes to the character of its former players...

Thanks for this. Now I'll I see in my head is that ridiculous ears of corn dress.

[Rcal10]

59 minutes ago, Derwood said:

I was gonna say, has the organization made Sandberg "admit" to his wife sleeping her way through the clubhouse? Or Grace banging blackout drunk chicks he picked up at Murphy's? Let's not pretend that the team (or fans) has any set of consistent standards when it comes to the character of its former players...

 

54 minutes ago, InSeungHo said:

Well, two of those guys are white while the other isn't... 

if this discussion is going to go to a place where Sandberg’s wife cheating on him and Grace having consensual sex with whoever chooses to have sex with him is compared to Sammy using steroids, corking his bat and committing DV are remotely the same thing, and anyone who feels Sammy needs to come clean has to be a racist, there is no reason for me to respond or even look at this thread again. I have no issues with people who have a POV that Sammy should be accepted by the Cubs because of what he did on the field. I just wish those who think that way would respect those who think differently, instead of attacking them for their views. 

[Sammy Sofa]

Sandberg effectively forced the Cubs to trade Palmeiro, and then "quit on his team" to a nigh-infinitely greater degree than Sosa ever did. He's never had any issue with being a dick to players he doesn't think much of, both when he was a player and then when he was coaching (and with that laughably bad sports column he wrote for a hot second, too).

Grace also "bailed on the Cubs," if we're going by meatball logic, has repeated drunk driving busts, was smoking in the dugout like a stone cold dirtbag. The dude clearly has his demons, and it very clearly influenced how he behaved and treated other people throughout his career.

We also have no idea if either juiced or not.

And I'm not saying any of this with the idea that either should be shunned by the Cubs or need to apologize to anyone; all of these players should still have a relationship with the team because of what they mean to so many of the fans, and it would be very, very dumb to play into meatball nonsense and keeping any of them at arm's length.

Edited March 17, 2024 by Sammy Sofa

[Hairyducked Idiot]

4 hours ago, squally1313 said:

This is really dismissive of how fun he was as a player for the fans in an era that was formative for a lot of people around here. The hop, the dugout camera celebration, the batting stance in general, sprinting out to RF (with the flag after 9/11), the two home runs that traveled approximately 1200 feet against Florida in the playoffs at wrigley. 
 

Ricketts literally writes a paycheck to McGwire. I’m not ignoring your points, especially the DV one, but I’ve been reading anti-Sammy arguments about the steroids and the corked bat for years and they are more often than not coded with bad motivations. 

This. Sammy Sosa is probably a bad person like most athletes but a lot of people dislike him for reasons that aren't specific to that 

[Hairyducked Idiot]

4 hours ago, Rcal10 said:

That too. Plus the general consensus that he was an awful teammate and only worried about his numbers. 

Which, again, puts him on an even footing with the much revered sandberg