Re: Cubs on verge of signing Lieber

[Omar]

I don't think there's a parking lot in Wrigleyville that can fit Lieber's truck.

 

http://willdo.philadelphiaweekly.com/archives/021507liebercar.jpg

 

Therefore, its a bad deal.

[RammyFanny]

Good move.

 

I don't see how people can bash this move when the absolute worst case scenario is: We are in the same situation we were expecting to be in.

And out an extra $3.5M. I'd rather put that towards taking a risk a position we have real holes at.

3.5 million isn't that big of a deal to us, when the payroll has been rumored to be as high as 135 million.

 

And who can you get for 3.5 million that would fill a hole of ours?

[hawkcub]

This is a a meh move. If he wasn't an ex-cub people wouldn't be calling the worst move ever.

[VanceJergins]

I'd say that this is not great, but doesn't suck. If we could get rid of Marquis and trade for Burnett or someone similar and have a rotation of Z, Hill, Burnett, Lilly, Lieber then this would be a really good move in my opinion. But I doubt that happens.

[abuck1220]

Good move.

 

I don't see how people can bash this move when the absolute worst case scenario is: We are in the same situation we were expecting to be in.

 

yeah, that's not true at all. after all, he's not playing for free. also, i'd rather have marshall out there than lieber. so i'd say the worst case scenario is lieber sucks, steals $3.5 mil and the cubs lose games because a better pitcher loses starts. or, the cubs could trade marquis/dempster, lieber (predictably) gets hurt, and the cubs are thin in the rotation.

[jersey cubs fan]

Good move.

 

I don't see how people can bash this move when the absolute worst case scenario is: We are in the same situation we were expecting to be in.

And out an extra $3.5M. I'd rather put that towards taking a risk a position we have real holes at.

3.5 million isn't that big of a deal to us, when the payroll has been rumored to be as high as 135 million.

 

And who can you get for 3.5 million that would fill a hole of ours?

 

How many $2-4 million players whose contracts "aren't that big a deal to us" do we need to fill up the margins of the roster?

 

Lieber, like most of Hendry's moves, isn't a horrible acquisition. It's just that also like most of Hendry's moves, it's a waste of resources and leaves the sum of the parts worth much less than they are getting paid.

 

This team was not in need of a mediocre starting pitcher. And that is all Lieber is.

 

It'll be interesting to see when the bonuses kick in.

[jersey cubs fan]

This is a a meh move. If he wasn't an ex-cub people wouldn't be calling the worst move ever.

 

This makes no sense. First off, nobody is calling it the worst move ever. But more importantly, the fact that he's an ex-cub makes no difference to those people who have issues with the deal.

[jersey cubs fan]

Good move.

 

I don't see how people can bash this move when the absolute worst case scenario is: We are in the same situation we were expecting to be in.

 

yeah, that's not true at all. after all, he's not playing for free. also, i'd rather have marshall out there than lieber. so i'd say the worst case scenario is lieber sucks, steals $3.5 mil and the cubs lose games because a better pitcher loses starts. or, the cubs could trade marquis/dempster, lieber (predictably) gets hurt, and the cubs are thin in the rotation.

 

Worst case depends on when the incentives kick in. If he makes a million just for showing up the first month and helps lose games, then we could be talking about a lower worst case scenario than what you pointed out.

[moorecg]

Good move.

 

I don't see how people can bash this move when the absolute worst case scenario is: We are in the same situation we were expecting to be in.

And out an extra $3.5M. I'd rather put that towards taking a risk a position we have real holes at.

3.5 million isn't that big of a deal to us, when the payroll has been rumored to be as high as 135 million.

 

And who can you get for 3.5 million that would fill a hole of ours?

 

How many $2-4 million players whose contracts "aren't that big a deal to us" do we need to fill up the margins of the roster?

 

Lieber, like most of Hendry's moves, isn't a horrible acquisition. It's just that also like most of Hendry's moves, it's a waste of resources and leaves the sum of the parts worth much less than they are getting paid.

 

This team was not in need of a mediocre starting pitcher. And that is all Lieber is.

 

It'll be interesting to see when the bonuses kick in.

 

 

One way to look at it is that it bottom line adds to the pay roll...in some instances, while not economically sound, from a fans point of view, (if they don't adversly effect other spending "this" year) it might make sense to prefer a 4 million guy to a 1 million guy at the same production. Why? Well, now the bar for next year's payroll (09) has been set that much higher.... (twisted logic...but the more I think about it the more it makes at least a "little" sense)

[abuck1220]

I think msot are in agreement that if Lieber's healthy he'll be league averageish right?

 

I don't know why anybody would assume that. He's a big fat 38 year old coming off surgery.

 

seriously. if he wasn't an ex-cub, fan favorite, people would be freaking out right now.

 

Seriously, it seems people are freaking out because he's an ex-cub.

 

i'm freaking out (though i'm not really freaking out) because he's old, not very good, fat, injury-prone, and somewhat expensive. and because the cubs don't need another back of the rotation starter.

[jersey cubs fan]

One way to look at it is that it bottom line adds to the pay roll...in some instances, while not economically sound, from a fans point of view, (if they don't adversly effect other spending "this" year) it might make sense to prefer a 4 million guy to a 1 million guy at the same production. Why? Well, now the bar for next year's payroll (09) has been set that much higher.... (twisted logic...but the more I think about it the more it makes at least a "little" sense)

 

That is some rather strange logic.

[DenverCubs]

oops Edited January 16, 2008 by DenverCubs

[moorecg]

One way to look at it is that it bottom line adds to the pay roll...in some instances, while not economically sound, from a fans point of view, (if they don't adversly effect other spending "this" year) it might make sense to prefer a 4 million guy to a 1 million guy at the same production. Why? Well, now the bar for next year's payroll (09) has been set that much higher.... (twisted logic...but the more I think about it the more it makes at least a "little" sense)

 

That is some rather strange logic.

 

 

Hey, we're Cubs fans...sometimes we've got to go a LONG way to make this teams moves make sense.

[nilodnayr]

Good move.

 

I don't see how people can bash this move when the absolute worst case scenario is: We are in the same situation we were expecting to be in.

 

yeah, that's not true at all. after all, he's not playing for free. also, i'd rather have marshall out there than lieber. so i'd say the worst case scenario is lieber sucks, steals $3.5 mil and the cubs lose games because a better pitcher loses starts. or, the cubs could trade marquis/dempster, lieber (predictably) gets hurt, and the cubs are thin in the rotation.

 

Lieber is better than Marshall.

[B]

Good move.

 

I don't see how people can bash this move when the absolute worst case scenario is: We are in the same situation we were expecting to be in.

And out an extra $3.5M. I'd rather put that towards taking a risk a position we have real holes at.

3.5 million isn't that big of a deal to us, when the payroll has been rumored to be as high as 135 million.

 

And who can you get for 3.5 million that would fill a hole of ours?

 

Todd Walker

[abuck1220]

Good move.

 

I don't see how people can bash this move when the absolute worst case scenario is: We are in the same situation we were expecting to be in.

 

yeah, that's not true at all. after all, he's not playing for free. also, i'd rather have marshall out there than lieber. so i'd say the worst case scenario is lieber sucks, steals $3.5 mil and the cubs lose games because a better pitcher loses starts. or, the cubs could trade marquis/dempster, lieber (predictably) gets hurt, and the cubs are thin in the rotation.

 

Lieber is better than Marshall.

 

at what?

[RammyFanny]

Good move.

 

I don't see how people can bash this move when the absolute worst case scenario is: We are in the same situation we were expecting to be in.

 

yeah, that's not true at all. after all, he's not playing for free. also, i'd rather have marshall out there than lieber. so i'd say the worst case scenario is lieber sucks, steals $3.5 mil and the cubs lose games because a better pitcher loses starts. or, the cubs could trade marquis/dempster, lieber (predictably) gets hurt, and the cubs are thin in the rotation.

 

You do realize that, without Lieber, about 90% of the people here wanted to trade Marquis/Dempster anyways, leaving us in the same exact scenario as you presented.

How many $2-4 million players whose contracts "aren't that big a deal to us" do we need to fill up the margins of the roster?

It's a one year deal, and then bam, we're off the hook. I don't think it impacts any other moves we'd make this year, so what does it really matter? It's not like he's going to be making 3.5 million for 4 years with us.

[HoopsCubs]

Good move.

 

I don't see how people can bash this move when the absolute worst case scenario is: We are in the same situation we were expecting to be in.

And out an extra $3.5M. I'd rather put that towards taking a risk a position we have real holes at.

3.5 million isn't that big of a deal to us, when the payroll has been rumored to be as high as 135 million.

 

And who can you get for 3.5 million that would fill a hole of ours?

 

Todd Walker

 

I think Big Z would have a huge problem if that guy was to be back in a Cubs uniform.

[wvcbxl]

Just wanted to state that I'm in the pro-Lieber camp.

[Butterscup1679666578]

Good move.

 

I don't see how people can bash this move when the absolute worst case scenario is: We are in the same situation we were expecting to be in.

 

yeah, that's not true at all. after all, he's not playing for free. also, i'd rather have marshall out there than lieber. so i'd say the worst case scenario is lieber sucks, steals $3.5 mil and the cubs lose games because a better pitcher loses starts. or, the cubs could trade marquis/dempster, lieber (predictably) gets hurt, and the cubs are thin in the rotation.

 

while I completely agree with you on Marshall, it doesn't seem like he's even being considered for a spot this year. It sounds like it's coming down to Marquis/Dempster for 4-5, and I'd rather have Marquis/Lieber there. Dempster doesn't need to be anywhere near the rotation.

[XZero771679666304]

I don't see what there is to be upset about here. It's a low risk, moderate reward deal. If he is healthy, he's better than Marquis and Dempster. At worst, he's slightly better than the average #5. He'll likely benefit from getting out of CBB, and he still throws a decent amount of ground balls, which should work to his advantage with the Cubs. If he's not healthy, the Cubs are only out 3.5 million.

 

Plus, this may well be the precursor to a trade. If it's not, there's nothing wrong with pitching depth.

[C.C.]

I don't see what there is to be upset about here. It's a low risk, moderate reward deal. If he is healthy, he's better than Marquis and Dempster. At worst, he's slightly better than the average #5. He'll likely benefit from getting out of CBB, and he still throws a decent amount of ground balls, which should work to his advantage with the Cubs. If he's not healthy, the Cubs are only out 3.5 million.

 

Plus, this may well be the precursor to a trade. If it's not, there's nothing wrong with pitching depth.

 

That's the key point there. Wouldn't surprise me if the trade happens tomorrow.

[SouthSideRyan]

This deal:

 

Moves Dempster from the rotation to the bullpen

 

Does not block one our young major league ready arms for years to come

 

Does not cost a lot.

 

Allows us to go 7 deep in our rotation.

 

These are all good things. On a base 1/3.5 committment I don't see how this is a bad thing.

 

Personally I'd prefer our rotation have Marshall and Gallagher as our 4/5, but even in that scenario I'd like to have a Lieber type as a long man who can step in and start rather than relying on Kevin Hart(And I like Hart more than most.) The market has changed, and 3.5M for 1/3 of a season of league average is probably about right. 7.5M for a full season of league average is a huge bargain. It would be nice to have somebody of Burnett's capabilities in the rotation, but a league average pitcher is a valuable commodity. This isn't frittering away 2.5M on a backup catcher. This is gambling a (relatively) small amount on the hope a guy(without a terrible injury history despite what many are claiming) stays healthy for a season as he enters the twilight of his career.

Edited January 16, 2008 by SouthSideRyan

[nilodnayr]

Good move.

 

I don't see how people can bash this move when the absolute worst case scenario is: We are in the same situation we were expecting to be in.

 

yeah, that's not true at all. after all, he's not playing for free. also, i'd rather have marshall out there than lieber. so i'd say the worst case scenario is lieber sucks, steals $3.5 mil and the cubs lose games because a better pitcher loses starts. or, the cubs could trade marquis/dempster, lieber (predictably) gets hurt, and the cubs are thin in the rotation.

 

Lieber is better than Marshall.

 

at what?

 

Pitching

[UK1679666180]

I'm disappointed at the lack of news concerning the poss. of Gallagher and Hart having a legit chance at winning a spot in the rotation compared to Marquis/Dempster/Lieber

 

Moreso Gallagher, since Hart I think would be better in the pen as well as Gallagher having a higher ceiling than Hart as well as Gallagher likely to equal them next year and surpass them in the future.