"Cubs not interested in bidding war for Giles"

[XZero771679666304]

And Furcal had a good year in his contract year. So did Adrian Beltre last year. So did Beltran last year. That list goes on and on.

 

Yeah, I agree. IMO the huge dollar figures being bandied about for Furcal are only appropriate for players who have been kicking ass consistently for a long time.

 

To be fair, Furcal has been more consitant than Beltran and far more than Beltre.

 

If Renteria os worth marktet value, so is Furcal.

[Andy]

To me it seems that too many people here are too focused on Brains Giles . It's like and thing not Giles related is met with derision.

 

I've said many times Giles isn't the only option, but RF is clearly the biggest need.

 

How many times do I have to repeat that it's the only position on the team with no internal options? Does that not mean anything to anybody? They can get average production out of SS for minimal cost. They can't get crap out of RF for anything. This team appears to be more interested in creating a hole (dumping Walker) than filling the biggest hole (RF).

=D> =D> =D>

 

Great post. We have Ronny and Walker already in-house, and that's a decent starting point. If we can improve on it, we should, but the fact is that we literally have NO right fielder, and that is the position of greatest need, therefore it should be the position of most emphasis.

[XZero771679666304]

You mean, like win?

 

If this was a franchise, or even a management team, with a strong history of making the right moves to make a winning ballclub, I'd be able to have patience when thinking about what will happen with the Giles situation in particuliar, the RF position in general and the team overall. But this front office has no legs to stand on. Andy's regime has brought on many more losses than victories. It's there job to prove us wrong, not our responsibility to just assume they have everything under control.

 

Ah...Goony...you remind me once again why you're my hero.

 

To everyone preaching that we wait and see how the off season unfolds before crucifying Hendry and company, that's the exact same mantra that's been bandied the last few seasons. I bought in last year, so any criticism I levy is a result of waiting for the non-existant difference making moves last winter.

 

If we get to the winter meetings and nothing has happened with the OF, then I will get worried. And I don't think too many expected too much last offseason. I know I didn't.

[BigbadB]

i'm sure hendry & his staff dont care one bit about a few fans think about him and his moves and neither would i if i were in his position.

 

A few fans? Cub fans have been suffering since 1908. Many have died without ever knowing the feeling of winning it all, unless they are Bear fans like me.

 

If he doesn't care, then it's high time to replace him with someone who does. A 100m payroll even tells me that The Trib cares about winning.

[frostwyrm]

And Furcal had a good year in his contract year. So did Adrian Beltre last year. So did Beltran last year. That list goes on and on.

 

Yeah, I agree. IMO the huge dollar figures being bandied about for Furcal are only appropriate for players who have been kicking ass consistently for a long time.

 

To be fair, Furcal has been more consitant than Beltran and far more than Beltre.

 

If Renteria os worth marktet value, so is Furcal.

 

Renteria is overpaid too.

[mg420]

i'm sure hendry & his staff dont care one bit about a few fans think about him and his moves and neither would i if i were in his position.

 

A few fans? Cub fans have been suffering since 1908. Many have died without ever knowing the feeling of winning it all, unless they are Bear fans like me.

 

If he doesn't care, then it's high time to replace him with someone who does. A 100m payroll even tells me that The Trib cares about winning.

 

im talking about the fans who thinks he sucks because he doesnt sign or trade for the players that they like. do you really think that we fans care more about the cubs winning than hendry does? for us baseball is a diversion, for him it is his livelyhood.

[BigbadB]

And Furcal had a good year in his contract year. So did Adrian Beltre last year. So did Beltran last year. That list goes on and on.

 

Yeah, I agree. IMO the huge dollar figures being bandied about for Furcal are only appropriate for players who have been kicking ass consistently for a long time.

 

To be fair, Furcal has been more consitant than Beltran and far more than Beltre.

 

If Renteria os worth marktet value, so is Furcal.

 

Renteria is overpaid too.

 

And look how his production dropped off after he signed the fat contract. Like I said, I can go on and on. I just grabbed Beltre and Beltran out of the air.

[goonys evil twin]

You mean, like win?

 

If this was a franchise, or even a management team, with a strong history of making the right moves to make a winning ballclub, I'd be able to have patience when thinking about what will happen with the Giles situation in particuliar, the RF position in general and the team overall. But this front office has no legs to stand on. Andy's regime has brought on many more losses than victories. It's there job to prove us wrong, not our responsibility to just assume they have everything under control.

 

Ah...Goony...you remind me once again why you're my hero.

 

To everyone preaching that we wait and see how the off season unfolds before crucifying Hendry and company, that's the exact same mantra that's been bandied the last few seasons. I bought in last year, so any criticism I levy is a result of waiting for the non-existant difference making moves last winter.

what does it matter anyway? if the cubs win it will not be because of us and if they lose it will not be because of us. i love the cubs as much as anyone but it's only a game (and one in which all of us are only spectators who have no real after effects of them winning or losing). for hendry it his his lifes work and his career. i'm sure hendry & his staff dont care one bit about a few fans think about him and his moves and neither would i if i were in his position.

 

So why spend time talking about it? Personally I don't care how anybody goes about being a fan, whether they are a "true fan", a bandwagon jumper, a fair weather or whatever. I'm a Cubs fan who really wants to see the Cubs win. I get passionate about that desire, and because of that I talk passionately about the team's happenings. If somebody else wants to see the team do something else, I don't really care. What I don't understand is why so many feel the need to play amateur pyschologist and talk the rest of us off the proverbial ledge, rolling their eyes at our angst. If you don't have a problem with the moves the Cubs have made, good for you. I'd like to not be upset. But I am, and I am well within my rights to be upset at the team, and I don't think anybody is justified in trying to tell me how immature I am, or how knee-jerk I am acting, or how unfair I'm treating Hendry. My complaints are toward a group of men who have accepted very public roles making very public decisions. I'm not wasting time on this site in an effort to nit-pick the moves other "civilians" want to see happen, it's all about the Cubs and what they do. And to date, whether it be this offseason, or this regime's era, or my lifetime as a Cubs fan, the results have not been anywhere close to satisfactory.

[XZero771679666304]

To me it seems that too many people here are too focused on Brains Giles . It's like and thing not Giles related is met with derision.

 

I've said many times Giles isn't the only option, but RF is clearly the biggest need.

 

How many times do I have to repeat that it's the only position on the team with no internal options? Does that not mean anything to anybody? They can get average production out of SS for minimal cost. They can't get crap out of RF for anything. This team appears to be more interested in creating a hole (dumping Walker) than filling the biggest hole (RF).

=D> =D> =D>

 

Great post. We have Ronny and Walker already in-house, and that's a decent starting point. If we can improve on it, we should, but the fact is that we literally have NO right fielder, and that is the position of greatest need, therefore it should be the position of most emphasis.

 

With the current regime, thinking about what should be done is too depressing.

 

I'm just looking at it like this:

 

1) Hendry is going to go after Furcal, likelihood of Furcal being a Cub = 99%

 

2) Giles isn't coming to the Cubs.

 

3) Baker won't use Cedeno or Murton at the top.

 

4) Baker will use Neifi to lead off unless he is provided with what he views as a better option.

 

5) Walker is trade bait, even if I don't like it.

 

Now given those things (IMO) what is the best possible course of action? I am not going to sit here and think utopian thoughts about what should or should not be. I'll save that until Hendry and Baker are gone.

[Bluescale]

what does it matter anyway? if the cubs win it will not be because of us and if they lose it will not be because of us. i love the cubs as much as anyone but it's only a game (and one in which all of us are only spectators who have no real after effects of them winning or losing). for hendry it his his lifes work and his career. i'm sure hendry & his staff dont care one bit about a few fans think about him and his moves and neither would i if i were in his position.

 

So what's the point of a discussion group then? Why don't we all just read the press releases on cubs.com and call it a day?

[Roast]

I hate the cubs.

[CubfaninCA]

I really doubt Hendry wants to announce to the world that Giles doesn't want to come to Chicago cause he views it as a second tier organization. There's no point in it. If Giles is too scared to take a chance on an org that hasn't won for a long time, fine. Why put a bunch of eggs in his basket.

[UBlink]

What if Giles is wary of signing a long term contract with a team whose GM, manager, and coaching staff are all on 1 year contracts? I know lots of us would like to see changes in all those positions, but would you want to sign a long term deal to be a part of an organization when you have no clue about who will be leading it next year?

 

I'm not pushing for extensions for Hendry and Baker, and it's too late now to change for next year, but I just think that uncertainty isn't an advantage on the free agent front.

[CubinNY]

I really doubt Hendry wants to announce to the world that Giles doesn't want to come to Chicago cause he views it as a second tier organization. There's no point in it. If Giles is too scared to take a chance on an org that hasn't won for a long time, fine. Why put a bunch of eggs in his basket.

 

That is BS. If Giles has said thanks but no thanks to the Cubs Hendry should leak the hell out of that story. I would. And I would paint it in the worst light possible. It severs Hendry in no way to keep something like that secret. I can imagine Phil Rogers writing his column about Hendry passing on the best available player right now.

 

If Hendry leaks out that he offered Giles a close enough figure and he turned it down. Giles is the bad guy not Hendry.

 

Now Hendry looks absolutely clueless.

[Guest]

Setting aside the hypthetical "Giles might not want to playe for the Cubs because..." discussion, the article presents the issue as if it's the Cubs who are uninterested in Giles, not the other way around. Of course there are no direct quotes from anyone in the organization so it could just be speculation, but "not interested" sounds to me like the Cubs simply do not value what Giles brings to the table. I realize the next key phrase is "bidding war" and I agree that no player deserves to fill in the amount of their own paycheck, but the feeling I get is that management is simply indifferent to Giles' skillset.

[stitchface]

Setting aside the hypthetical "Giles might not want to playe for the Cubs because..." discussion, the article presents the issue as if it's the Cubs who are uninterested in Giles, not the other way around. Of course there are no direct quotes from anyone in the organization so it could just be speculation, but "not interested" sounds to me like the Cubs simply do not value what Giles brings to the table. I realize the next key phrase is "bidding war" and I agree that no player deserves to fill in the amount of their own paycheck, but the feeling I get is that management is simply indifferent to Giles' skillset.

 

I actually think his age is a big factor. Hendry has learned to fear long-term contracts for ageing players (ironic that goony is arguing against this). Clearly Jim does not recognize that not all players age the same. I am quite convinced the Jim Hendry does not do his homework. While he does what he thinks is best for the Cubs, he does not seem to be willing to consider all points of view. Even the most diehard scout should consider statistical evaluations if he wants to be a GM. I don't think Hendry gets beyond the headlines. From my point of view, Jim Hendry reacts without understanding - this is why he has no plan. Perhaps he needs better assistants - perhaps he just isn't smart enough.

[noisesquared]

Maybe the lack of interest in Giles is due to the fact he would not help with a decidedly mediocre team ERA of 4.19. The pennant winning Astro's OBP and SLG was worse than the Cubs'(as was the world champion White SOx), but they gave up over 100(!) runs less than the Cubs. As much as I'd love to see Giles in RF, he is not going to help the Cubs give up less runs. The Cubs can add whomever they want offensively, but if the pitching is not addressed, we can forget about a WS title. If I'm Hendry, I'm targeting at least one other frontline SP as my top priority. The Cubs had enough offense to win last year, but the pitching was just not there.

[goonys evil twin]

Maybe the lack of interest in Giles is due to the fact he would not help with a decidedly mediocre team ERA of 4.19. The pennant winning Astro's OBP and SLG was worse than the Cubs'(as was the world champion White SOx), but they gave up over 100(!) runs less than the Cubs. As much as I'd love to see Giles in RF, he is not going to help the Cubs give up less runs. The Cubs can add whomever they want offensively, but if the pitching is not addressed, we can forget about a WS title. If I'm Hendry, I'm targeting at least one other frontline SP as my top priority. The Cubs had enough offense to win last year, but the pitching was just not there.

 

And yet on the other hand, 3 of the best pitching teams in the NL didn't even make the playoffs.

 

The Cubs did not have enough offense to win, and they can't just add "whomever they want". Ignoring the offense would be a terrible decision.

[JeffH]

The Cubs did not have enough offense to win, and they can't just add "whomever they want". Ignoring the offense would be a terrible decision.

 

Agreed. I want Giles, but the key is not having Perez, Patterson, Hairston, Hollandsworth, Macias, and Dubois get 35% of your team's PAs.

[Keener98]

You mean, like win?

 

If this was a franchise, or even a management team, with a strong history of making the right moves to make a winning ballclub, I'd be able to have patience when thinking about what will happen with the Giles situation in particuliar, the RF position in general and the team overall. But this front office has no legs to stand on. Andy's regime has brought on many more losses than victories. It's there job to prove us wrong, not our responsibility to just assume they have everything under control.

 

Ah...Goony...you remind me once again why you're my hero.

 

To everyone preaching that we wait and see how the off season unfolds before crucifying Hendry and company, that's the exact same mantra that's been bandied the last few seasons. I bought in last year, so any criticism I levy is a result of waiting for the non-existant difference making moves last winter.

what does it matter anyway? if the cubs win it will not be because of us and if they lose it will not be because of us. i love the cubs as much as anyone but it's only a game (and one in which all of us are only spectators who have no real after effects of them winning or losing). for hendry it his his lifes work and his career. i'm sure hendry & his staff dont care one bit about a few fans think about him and his moves and neither would i if i were in his position.

 

So why spend time talking about it? Personally I don't care how anybody goes about being a fan, whether they are a "true fan", a bandwagon jumper, a fair weather or whatever. I'm a Cubs fan who really wants to see the Cubs win. I get passionate about that desire, and because of that I talk passionately about the team's happenings. If somebody else wants to see the team do something else, I don't really care. What I don't understand is why so many feel the need to play amateur pyschologist and talk the rest of us off the proverbial ledge, rolling their eyes at our angst. If you don't have a problem with the moves the Cubs have made, good for you. I'd like to not be upset. But I am, and I am well within my rights to be upset at the team, and I don't think anybody is justified in trying to tell me how immature I am, or how knee-jerk I am acting, or how unfair I'm treating Hendry. My complaints are toward a group of men who have accepted very public roles making very public decisions. I'm not wasting time on this site in an effort to nit-pick the moves other "civilians" want to see happen, it's all about the Cubs and what they do. And to date, whether it be this offseason, or this regime's era, or my lifetime as a Cubs fan, the results have not been anywhere close to satisfactory.

 

Goony, great post. That sums up my feelings perfectly, I couldnt have said it better myself.

[Bgbird68]

Seconded.

[stitchface]

Maybe the lack of interest in Giles is due to the fact he would not help with a decidedly mediocre team ERA of 4.19. The pennant winning Astro's OBP and SLG was worse than the Cubs'(as was the world champion White SOx), but they gave up over 100(!) runs less than the Cubs. As much as I'd love to see Giles in RF, he is not going to help the Cubs give up less runs. The Cubs can add whomever they want offensively, but if the pitching is not addressed, we can forget about a WS title. If I'm Hendry, I'm targeting at least one other frontline SP as my top priority. The Cubs had enough offense to win last year, but the pitching was just not there.

 

And yet on the other hand, 3 of the best pitching teams in the NL didn't even make the playoffs.

 

The Cubs did not have enough offense to win, and they can't just add "whomever they want". Ignoring the offense would be a terrible decision.

 

Gee, maybe the key is to outscore the other team?

[CubfaninCA]

I really doubt Hendry wants to announce to the world that Giles doesn't want to come to Chicago cause he views it as a second tier organization. There's no point in it. If Giles is too scared to take a chance on an org that hasn't won for a long time, fine. Why put a bunch of eggs in his basket.

 

That is BS. If Giles has said thanks but no thanks to the Cubs Hendry should leak the hell out of that story. I would. And I would paint it in the worst light possible. It severs Hendry in no way to keep something like that secret. I can imagine Phil Rogers writing his column about Hendry passing on the best available player right now.

 

If Hendry leaks out that he offered Giles a close enough figure and he turned it down. Giles is the bad guy not Hendry.

 

Now Hendry looks absolutely clueless.

 

A smart agent will keep the door open. With a few sources listing Chicago as Giles' destination, the Cubs are probably still in the ballgame. Hendry's just not going to put a bunch of eggs into his basket..... If the Cubs don't get him, Hendry's most likely spin will be costs.

[CubfaninCA]

Maybe the lack of interest in Giles is due to the fact he would not help with a decidedly mediocre team ERA of 4.19. The pennant winning Astro's OBP and SLG was worse than the Cubs'(as was the world champion White SOx), but they gave up over 100(!) runs less than the Cubs. As much as I'd love to see Giles in RF, he is not going to help the Cubs give up less runs. The Cubs can add whomever they want offensively, but if the pitching is not addressed, we can forget about a WS title. If I'm Hendry, I'm targeting at least one other frontline SP as my top priority. The Cubs had enough offense to win last year, but the pitching was just not there.

 

And yet on the other hand, 3 of the best pitching teams in the NL didn't even make the playoffs.

 

The Cubs did not have enough offense to win, and they can't just add "whomever they want". Ignoring the offense would be a terrible decision.

 

Don't worry the offense won't be ignored. It wasn't last year. Nomar, Walker, ARam and Patterson just issed 360 games. (Patterson's game's played shouldn't count). :)

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Who needs Giles when you have Scott Eyre. :puker: