"Cubs not interested in bidding war for Giles"

[BigbadB]

If the Cardinals can afford to get into bidding wars for Giles, why can't the Cubs?

 

The Cardinals need Giles a whole lot less than the Cubs do. The Cardinals have a whole lot less to spend on an outfielder than the Cubs do.

 

The Cardinals are a good team with or without Giles. The Cubs are not a good team as it stands. Adding Furcal at 10m a season will not make them good.

 

Pujols, Edmonds, Rolen is what makes the Cardinals good. They can replace the other 5 with spare parts and bit pieces and be good. By the way, that is exactly what they have done. They've gone from Renteria at SS to David Eckstein. They went from Bo Hart at 2nd to Womack to Grudz. They've had Sanders, who is not very high on anyone's priority list this offseason. Matheny was replaced by Molina. Walker did replace Drew, but both were injured about as often as they were healthy.

 

The Cubs would have a comparable super 3 in Lee, Giles, Ramirez. After that, spare parts and bit pieces would make the an offensive equivilent to St. Louis (if they went with guys who provide decent OBP like St. Louis does).

 

This isn't to say "pattern your offense like St. Louis". It just makes so much sense for Giles that it's absolutely ridiculous that the Cubs aren't wining and dining Giles right now.

 

I can't help but think of DKWG's post about Giles in an earlier thread where it's broken down as to all the reasons Brian Giles should be signed, even if it becomes a bidding war.

 

No player makes more sense than Giles this offseason.

[BigbadB]

One more reason the Cubs should be in on the Giles sweepstakes is because the Cardinals appear to be playing the game. I don't advocate going after someone just because a rival is going after that guy. But, if it's a position of need, and the guy is a perfect fit, you have to.

 

If the Cardinals sign Giles, game over. Period.

 

What can the Cubs do to even remotely compete with St. Louis for the next 3 years if they have Pujols, Giles, Rolen, Edmonds in the heart of their order?

 

Reduced to battling for a wild card in '06,'07 and '08. Wouldn't that just be grand?

[YearofDaCubs]

Cubs have all this money to spend and not a damn thing to show for it...

[Cubfanintheknow]

What a great start to the day. God, I hate the Cubs.

 

 

Is there any way we can wait on the signing of Giles, wherever it may be, before we begin thumping the Cubs for their ineptitude?

 

No. If you want to do that fine, refrain from posting. But why ask other to do it? If this is how you feel I'd suggest you avoid the whole transactions topic all together. That way you will not have to needlessly make such posts.

 

EDIT: I don't know that anybody has ever said that Sullivan doesn't have information correct. What people have complianed about is his gossip mongering, and foolish ideas. But I think he is the mouth piece of the Chicago Cubs.

 

I'll counter by saying it's totally unnecessary to make rash comments on something that hasn't happened yet. Why hate the Cubs for something they haven't even done? So I'll continue to make posts wherever and whenever I feel, thank you. Please feel free to scroll right past mine.

 

And you may feel free to believe Paul Sullivan is the mouthpiece of the Cubs. But it's hilarious that you state that "people have complained about his gossip mongering" when that's exactly what he's doing when he talks about Brian Giles. Notice he's not quoting anyone in the Cub organization.

[goonys evil twin]

I'll counter by saying it's totally unnecessary to make rash comments on something that hasn't happened yet. Why hate the Cubs for something they haven't even done?

 

You mean, like win?

 

If this was a franchise, or even a management team, with a strong history of making the right moves to make a winning ballclub, I'd be able to have patience when thinking about what will happen with the Giles situation in particuliar, the RF position in general and the team overall. But this front office has no legs to stand on. Andy's regime has brought on many more losses than victories. It's there job to prove us wrong, not our responsibility to just assume they have everything under control.

[CubfaninCA]

So Paul Sullivan's a credible source now? Talk about a turn of events. :)

[CubinNY]

So Paul Sullivan's a credible source now? Talk about a turn of events. :)

 

when has he not been a credible source?

 

People rightly criticize his reporting but what he reports about the Cubs comes out true.

 

Again, I'll ask a question that was left unaswered a page back. When has Sullivan reported someithing that later turned out to be false? The burden is on those of you who say he is not credible.

[CubfaninCA]

So Paul Sullivan's a credible source now? Talk about a turn of events. :)

 

when has he not been a credible source?

 

People rightly criticize his reporting but what he reports about the Cubs comes out true.

 

Again, I'll ask a question that was left unaswered a page back. When has Sullivan reported someithing that later turned out to be false? The burden is on those of you who say he is not credible.

 

I've just seen him bashed here quite a bit. Over what specifically... I don't recall. Just seems any time a Sullivan article is posted it's followed by a series of condescending posts. Not saying there's anything w/ the condescension. Just seems like some flip floppin is going on today. :)

[goonys evil twin]

So Paul Sullivan's a credible source now? Talk about a turn of events. :)

 

when has he not been a credible source?

 

People rightly criticize his reporting but what he reports about the Cubs comes out true.

 

Again, I'll ask a question that was left unaswered a page back. When has Sullivan reported someithing that later turned out to be false? The burden is on those of you who say he is not credible.

 

I've just seen him bashed here quite a bit. Over what specifically... I don't recall. Just seems any time a Sullivan article is posted it's followed by a series of condescending posts. Not saying there's anything w/ the condescension. Just seems like some flip floppin is going on today. :)

 

I've seen a lot of people complain when Sullivan reports things in a not so pleasent light. If he says players are bitching about announcers, then he's a muckraker who is trying to be the story. I don't personally like his style, mostly due to those absurd Q&As he does on chicagosports.com. He comes across as somebody who is dying to become a regular on Around the Horn, or as a guy who hates following the Cubs. But when he reports on things he thinks will happen with the team, they seem to come true, a lot.

 

I think the Sullivan hate is more of a shoot the messenger instead of addressing the message situation.

[Cubfanintheknow]

I'll counter by saying it's totally unnecessary to make rash comments on something that hasn't happened yet. Why hate the Cubs for something they haven't even done?

 

You mean, like win?

 

If this was a franchise, or even a management team, with a strong history of making the right moves to make a winning ballclub, I'd be able to have patience when thinking about what will happen with the Giles situation in particuliar, the RF position in general and the team overall. But this front office has no legs to stand on. Andy's regime has brought on many more losses than victories. It's there job to prove us wrong, not our responsibility to just assume they have everything under control.

 

You may be taking my quotes a little out of context. Earlier, I chastised a poster for "hating" the Cubs based on speculation the team would not get into a bidding war for Brian Giles. Personally, I thought the comment was a little strong since it was based on one writer's opinion instead of a direct quote from someone in Cubs' management.

[abuck1220]

=D>

 

But it's ok to get into a bidding war for Furcal?

 

What bidding war? Between the Cubs and Braves? If he reports are to be believed, the Yanks and others are involved in the Giles sweepstakes. I'd say that's very different than the Furcal situation.

 

The Mets are involved.

 

If you are willing to even consider a 5/50 for Furcal, but won't get in on the Giles talks while the numbers are still in the 3/30 range, you're just a plain old incompetent GM.

 

exactly. why is 5/50 ok for a career .757 OPS, but 3/30ish is not ok for a career .955 OPS? nonsense.

 

i guess hendry only wants to get in a bidding war if it's against himself.

[goonys evil twin]

i guess hendry only wants to get in a bidding war if it's against himself.

 

You can never lose that war, especially if you're the target.

[wastra]

i guess hendry only wants to get in a bidding war if it's against himself.

 

You can never lose that war, especially if you're the target.

 

I would argue we "lost" that bidding war with ourselves over Alfonseca a few years back.

 

 

 

 

Anyway, this is frustrating if true. Giles should have been the one guy we set our sights on this year first, not Furcal. Priority #1 among position acquisitions should have been an impact bat. We won't get that with Furcal, but we'll pay almost just as much.

[CubfaninCA]

=D>

 

But it's ok to get into a bidding war for Furcal?

 

What bidding war? Between the Cubs and Braves? If he reports are to be believed, the Yanks and others are involved in the Giles sweepstakes. I'd say that's very different than the Furcal situation.

 

The Mets are involved.

 

If you are willing to even consider a 5/50 for Furcal, but won't get in on the Giles talks while the numbers are still in the 3/30 range, you're just a plain old incompetent GM.

 

exactly. why is 5/50 ok for a career .757 OPS, but 3/30ish is not ok for a career .955 OPS? nonsense.

 

i guess hendry only wants to get in a bidding war if it's against himself.

 

"bidding war against himself"

 

here we go again w/ the conspiracy theories....

[goonys evil twin]

"bidding war against himself"

 

here we go again w/ the conspiracy theories....

 

What is the conspiracy?

[NorthsideAvenger]

And why does people assumes that Giles would even consider the Cubs? Have people ever thought that Hendry may have express interests in Giles, but his agent inform the Cubs, that he isn't interested in going to the Cubs, or even the Cards? Maybe Giles was Hendry's 1st choice, but I get the feeling that Giles is going to stay in Cali (maybe the Dodgers?Angels?) unless the Cards/Cubs offer TOO MUCH for Giles.

[goonys evil twin]

And why does people assumes that Giles would even consider the Cubs?

 

How many times do we have to hear this excuse? I'm just wondering, you know, to rank it amongst the it's too cold in April, the wind was blowing in, there's too many day games, we don't have enough speed and other excuses.

 

Yes, that excuse has been laid out before. And it's BS. First off, it's highly unlikely that a top free agent would eliminate a big market club with a ton of money to spend from consideration. Second, it's the GM's job to get the talent here. Other GM's have managed to talk guys into going places where they initially had no interest.

[XZero771679666304]

i guess hendry only wants to get in a bidding war if it's against himself.

 

You can never lose that war, especially if you're the target.

 

I would argue we "lost" that bidding war with ourselves over Alfonseca a few years back.

 

 

 

 

Anyway, this is frustrating if true. Giles should have been the one guy we set our sights on this year first, not Furcal. Priority #1 among position acquisitions should have been an impact bat. We won't get that with Furcal, but we'll pay almost just as much.

 

Actually, I think priority #1 should be to get OBP for the top of the order. The main offensive problem last year was that nobody got on ahead of Lee and Ramirez. An impact bat is also sorely needed but secondary, IMO.

[abuck1220]

"bidding war against himself"

 

here we go again w/ the conspiracy theories....

 

What is the conspiracy?

 

that he's the board martyr and we're all trying to bring him down.

[fromthestretch]

Actually, I think priority #1 should be to get OBP for the top of the order. The main offensive problem last year was that nobody got on ahead of Lee and Ramirez. An impact bat is also sorely needed but secondary, IMO.

 

The two main rumored targets for leadoff are Furcal and Pierre. Walker had a better OBP than both of them in 2005. Not to mention that he'll make signifcantly less money than Furcal and at least $1.5 million less than Pierre. His career OBP is the exact same as Furcal.

 

Get an impact bat and let Walker leadoff. If you can get an impact bat AND a legitmate leadoff hitter, great. If not, the impact bat should be the priority.

[XZero771679666304]

Actually, I think priority #1 should be to get OBP for the top of the order. The main offensive problem last year was that nobody got on ahead of Lee and Ramirez. An impact bat is also sorely needed but secondary, IMO.

 

The two main rumored targets for leadoff are Furcal and Pierre. Walker had a better OBP than both of them in 2005. Not to mention that he'll make signifcantly less money than Furcal and at least $1.5 million less than Pierre. His career OBP is the exact same as Furcal.

 

Get an impact bat and let Walker leadoff. If you can get an impact bat AND a legitmate leadoff hitter, great. If not, the impact bat should be the priority.

 

Well Walker is obvious. I have been a proponent of him leading off since day one, but if Dusty isn't going to bat him leadoff, then it is really irrelevant.

[abuck1220]

Actually, I think priority #1 should be to get OBP for the top of the order. The main offensive problem last year was that nobody got on ahead of Lee and Ramirez. An impact bat is also sorely needed but secondary, IMO.

 

The two main rumored targets for leadoff are Furcal and Pierre. Walker had a better OBP than both of them in 2005. Not to mention that he'll make signifcantly less money than Furcal and at least $1.5 million less than Pierre. His career OBP is the exact same as Furcal.

 

Get an impact bat and let Walker leadoff. If you can get an impact bat AND a legitmate leadoff hitter, great. If not, the impact bat should be the priority.

 

it's ridiculous.

 

walker (2b) + cedeno (ss) + giles (rf)

 

or

 

furcal (ss) + cedeno (2b) + encarnacion/j jones/floyd (rf)

 

the first option is soooo much better than the second it's ridiculous.

 

not to mention the fact that the second option would include a long term, big money contract and the possibility of giving up talent in a trade.

 

it's beyond me how hendry can't justify giving giles $10 mil/year, but he has no problem giving that kind of money to a far inferior player (and one that doesn't fill a hole in the field).

[goonys evil twin]

Actually, I think priority #1 should be to get OBP for the top of the order. The main offensive problem last year was that nobody got on ahead of Lee and Ramirez. An impact bat is also sorely needed but secondary, IMO.

 

No, the main problem was that not enough people got on, throughout the lineup. Giles could provide a .400+ OBP from the 2 spot, blowing away any potential improvement Furcal would provide. Focusing strictly on the top of the lineup is a terrible mistake. It wasn't 1 or 2 spots that struggled, it was the entire lineup, outside of Lee, Ramirez, and to an extent, Barrett. Burnitz was awful in the middle of the lineup. He was like having Furcal in there, which nobody would try.

[Fanzones trumpet]

=D>

 

But it's ok to get into a bidding war for Furcal?

 

What bidding war? Between the Cubs and Braves? If he reports are to be believed, the Yanks and others are involved in the Giles sweepstakes. I'd say that's very different than the Furcal situation.

 

The Mets are involved.

 

If you are willing to even consider a 5/50 for Furcal, but won't get in on the Giles talks while the numbers are still in the 3/30 range, you're just a plain old incompetent GM.

 

exactly. why is 5/50 ok for a career .757 OPS, but 3/30ish is not ok for a career .955 OPS? nonsense.

 

i guess hendry only wants to get in a bidding war if it's against himself.

 

Because OPS isn't all there is in baseball. Because defense is important up the middle. See Chicago White Sox. Because Furcal is an excellent defensive player at an important defensive position who's just coming into his prime while Giles doesn't play an important defensive position and is past his prime.

[goonys evil twin]

Well Walker is obvious. I have been a proponent of him leading off since day one, but if Dusty isn't going to bat him leadoff, then it is really irrelevant.

 

That is not at all irrelevant. That's the crux of the matter. The Cubs are not prioritizing their needs. They are overspending on mediocrity and/or redundancies, and completely ignoring the single biggest problem on the team. RF is the one spot with no potential internal option that would stand a chance of providing at least average production. They are spending maximum dollars for minimum, or at least lesser improvement. Whoever they get for 2nd base won't be a better hitter than Walker, if he's replaced (with the possible exception of Marcus Giles). Furcal would be better than Cedeno, but potentially not all that much of an improvement. And in order to make those moves, they will be left with very little to address the single biggest hole on the team, RF.