"Cubs not interested in bidding war for Giles"

[CubinNY]

He was just pointing out that it seems pointless to talk about how inept the Cubs were for not pursuing Giles seriously, when we really have no idea yet what's going on.

 

The whole thread is about a report in the paper that Cubs are not going to pursue Giles. Should we not talk about it? Or should we not talk about it and hope it is wrong?

[CubinNY]

So much of this "reporting" has to do with spin. A player asks for $100 million and a team says they're not going to get into a bidding war with other teams. I think Hendry has a good idea as to how much a player is worth to the Cubs and if the bidding is too high, then he should move on to plan B. Giles is a perfect fit for RF, but not at $13-$14 million over 3-4 years. It would be great to get Dunn for RF, but not if it's going to cost us Prior and Pie. If we have Furcal (Lugo or Cedeno) at SS, Cedeno (or M. Giles, Castillo, etc.) at 2B, Pierre (or Bradley, Wilkerson, etc.) in CF, and Mench (Floyd, Giles, Abreu) in RF, we could win the division assuming some semblance of health. We aren't going to win if we have prolonged DL stints from Zambrano, Prior, Wood, Lee, or Ramirez no matter who we put in those other positions.

 

you are assuming quite a lot.

 

and your entire argument is based on the predication that the Cubs will be able to acquire players like Marcus Giles and Castillo who may not even be available.

 

This team will not compete for the divison if Giles is playing RF for the Cardinals and the Cubs fail in every thing or even some of the things you mentioned.

 

It would seem to me that it is much easier to acquire a FA than to find a trading partner for a good young player when all you have are "B" level trading chips.

[SouthSideRyan]

He must not be able to catch the ball.

[hawkeyecub]

He was just pointing out that it seems pointless to talk about how inept the Cubs were for not pursuing Giles seriously, when we really have no idea yet what's going on.

 

The whole thread is about a report in the paper that Cubs are not going to pursue Giles. Should we not talk about it? Or should we not talk about it and hope it is wrong?

 

No. Speculation is wonderful and that's what keeps boards like this going.

 

I think the point is just that it's premature to call them inept and saying they have no clue, when this report is simply speculation that the Cubs "won't get into a bidding war" for Giles. First of all that could have many meanings, and you also have to consider the source.

[Bull]

He must not be able to catch the ball.

 

Everytime I see someone make this allusion, I can't help but think about Brant Brown 1988.

[RynoRules]

=D>

 

But it's ok to get into a bidding war for Furcal?

 

What bidding war? Between the Cubs and Braves? If he reports are to be believed, the Yanks and others are involved in the Giles sweepstakes. I'd say that's very different than the Furcal situation.

[RynoRules]

What a great start to the day. God, I hate the Cubs.

 

 

Is there any way we can wait on the signing of Giles, wherever it may be, before we begin thumping the Cubs for their ineptitude?

 

No. If you want to do that fine, refrain from posting. But why ask other to do it? If this is how you feel I'd suggest you avoid the whole transactions topic all together. That way you will not have to needlessly make such posts.

 

EDIT: I don't know that anybody has ever said that Sullivan doesn't have information correct. What people have complianed about is his gossip mongering, and foolish ideas. But I think he is the mouth piece of the Chicago Cubs.

 

Nothing like supressing speech and the free trade of ideas, which is what this bd. is all about.

 

Sullivan is almost never accurate in his reporting. If the Cubs don't get Giles or if it is eventually evident that they never tried, then flame away. To do so now is premature, especially since there are reports that contradict Sullivan and he has been known to flip-flop positions on a daily basis. Moreover, if you look closely at the entire article you will see that it was a bunch of different thoughts glued together by some editor. Its horribly done, and I wouldn't be surprised if some ofthe context got lost in the editing. And did he cite to any source?

 

And how do you know that Sullivan is the Cubs mouthpiece? That's quite a statement; can you back it up?

Edited November 17, 2005 by RynoRules

[BigbadB]

At the same time, the Yankees don't seem like a likely destination. What they really need is a good defensive CFer, and probably one that can hit at the top of the order.

 

An outfield of Matsui/Giles/Sheffield will not be a good one, defensively speaking. Giles is a good defender in left or right, but he'll be subpar at best in CF. If Giles wants to do that, let him. But, until he is signed by the Yankees, we should definitely be signing him.

 

The speculation that Giles' skills are deteriorating is hogwash. The reason the HR's are down is because of the spacious park dimensions in the NL West, especially Petco.

 

Matsui has told the Yankees that he feels most comfortable in CF, so maybe the Giles rumors do have legs.

[RynoRules]

At the same time, the Yankees don't seem like a likely destination. What they really need is a good defensive CFer, and probably one that can hit at the top of the order.

 

An outfield of Matsui/Giles/Sheffield will not be a good one, defensively speaking. Giles is a good defender in left or right, but he'll be subpar at best in CF. If Giles wants to do that, let him. But, until he is signed by the Yankees, we should definitely be signing him.

 

The speculation that Giles' skills are deteriorating is hogwash. The reason the HR's are down is because of the spacious park dimensions in the NL West, especially Petco.

 

Matsui has told the Yankees that he feels most comfortable in CF, so maybe the Giles rumors do have legs.

 

Points well taken. Though this is Big Stein we are talking about.

[sherwood921]

What a great start to the day. God, I hate the Cubs.

 

I dislike how people claim a "hatred" for the Cubs after reading the opinion--and that's exactly what the quoted text is, opinion--of one baseball writer. And it's funny, too, because the consensus of this board is that Paul Sullivan doesn't know what he's talking about. Yet today he knows all when it comes to the pursuit of Brian Giles.

 

Is there any way we can wait on the signing of Giles, wherever it may be, before we begin thumping the Cubs for their ineptitude?

 

You are right that I am overreacting (I obviously don't hate the Cubs). Also, Sullivan is less than reliable. But I'm very frustrated that the Cubs seem to have no apparent interest in Giles (unless he's dirt cheap). In addition, Sullivan hasn't been the first to mention the Ineifiable (wasn't that word invented last week?) Alex Gonzalez II as a possible target for the Cubs.

 

 

What are the Cubs supposed to say? If Hendry goes out and says "I am willing to pay whatever Brian Giles wants" everyone will be ticked that he's just driving his price up. Hendry's not a complete idiot, I bet what we hear from the newspapers, etc. is about 5% of what really happens.

Edited November 17, 2005 by sherwood921

[sherwood921]

edit: double post Edited November 17, 2005 by sherwood921

[CubinNY]

What a great start to the day. God, I hate the Cubs.

 

 

Is there any way we can wait on the signing of Giles, wherever it may be, before we begin thumping the Cubs for their ineptitude?

 

No. If you want to do that fine, refrain from posting. But why ask other to do it? If this is how you feel I'd suggest you avoid the whole transactions topic all together. That way you will not have to needlessly make such posts.

 

EDIT: I don't know that anybody has ever said that Sullivan doesn't have information correct. What people have complianed about is his gossip mongering, and foolish ideas. But I think he is the mouth piece of the Chicago Cubs.

 

Nothing like supressing speech and the free trade of ideas, which is wha tthis bd. is all about.

 

I couldn't agree more which exactly what his post was about.

 

Now on to Sullivan. Who broke the Sammygate story? Who broke the Farnsworth bad apple stuff? Who broke the Hariston is not playing b/c he missed signs stuff? Who broke the players confronting Stone and Chip?

 

I'd say he is pretty much glued into what is going on at Addison and Clark.

 

Now, I'll turn it arount to you. When has Sullivan reported something that later came out to be false?

 

Look, the guy is a hack, but he does nothing but spout the company line with an occasional gossipy tid bit. I think he has as much credibility as any beat writer include Brue Miles.

[katway]

What a great start to the day. God, I hate the Cubs.

 

I dislike how people claim a "hatred" for the Cubs after reading the opinion--and that's exactly what the quoted text is, opinion--of one baseball writer. And it's funny, too, because the consensus of this board is that Paul Sullivan doesn't know what he's talking about. Yet today he knows all when it comes to the pursuit of Brian Giles.

 

Is there any way we can wait on the signing of Giles, wherever it may be, before we begin thumping the Cubs for their ineptitude?

 

You are right that I am overreacting (I obviously don't hate the Cubs). Also, Sullivan is less than reliable. But I'm very frustrated that the Cubs seem to have no apparent interest in Giles (unless he's dirt cheap). In addition, Sullivan hasn't been the first to mention the Ineifiable (wasn't that word invented last week?) Alex Gonzalez II as a possible target for the Cubs.

 

 

What are the Cubs supposed to say? If he goes out and says "I am willing to pay whatever Brian Giles wants" everyone will be ticked that he's just driving his price up. Hendry's not a complete idiot, I bet what we hear from the newspapers, etc. is about 5% of what really happens.

 

Exactly. :wink: No team is going to go out and say they will pay a player whatever he wants.

[frostwyrm]

If it is true that the Yanks are interested in both Giles and Damon that means they are willing to part with Sheffield. It looks like Giles will almost certainly be too expensive for Hendry's liking, so I hope the Yanks get him, and Damon too. I want Gary Sheffield.

[RynoRules]

What a great start to the day. God, I hate the Cubs.

 

 

Is there any way we can wait on the signing of Giles, wherever it may be, before we begin thumping the Cubs for their ineptitude?

 

No. If you want to do that fine, refrain from posting. But why ask other to do it? If this is how you feel I'd suggest you avoid the whole transactions topic all together. That way you will not have to needlessly make such posts.

 

EDIT: I don't know that anybody has ever said that Sullivan doesn't have information correct. What people have complianed about is his gossip mongering, and foolish ideas. But I think he is the mouth piece of the Chicago Cubs.

 

Nothing like supressing speech and the free trade of ideas, which is wha tthis bd. is all about.

 

I couldn't agree more which exactly what his post was about.

 

Now on to Sullivan. Who broke the Sammygate story? Who broke the Farnsworth bad apple stuff? Who broke the Hariston is not playing b/c he missed signs stuff? Who broke the players confronting Stone and Chip?

 

I'd say he is pretty much glued into what is going on at Addison and Clark.

 

Now, I'll turn it arount to you. When has Sullivan reported something that later came out to be false?

 

Look, the guy is a hack, but he does nothing but spout the company line with an occasional gossipy tid bit. I think he has as much credibility as any beat writer include Brue Miles.

 

IMO, Sullivan has swung-and-missed a lot more han he's connected, and his columns tend to contradict each other from day-to-day, if you look closely. I still don't see any evidence that he is Hendry's mouthpiece, though. If Hendry is leaking that info to Sullivan, than Sullivan should cite to "highly placed anonymous sources".

 

BTW, I hope somone else notes that you are equating him to the revered Mr. Miles.

[goonys evil twin]

I don't have a problem with the Cubs if they choose not to get into a bidding war for Giles, my problem with the team is I highly doubt they will even get into a bidding skirmish, or even fracas.

 

The theory that lots of teams are likely to have an interest in Giles seems to be enough of an incentive for Hendry not to have any, and that's just incredibly disappointing, and also telling of the ineptitude of this front office.

 

When you don't even realize that BBs and OBP have been your biggest offensive problem, and that right field was an absolute black hole last season, you can't know that Brian Giles is the cure for what ails you. It all goes back to this administration's ancient and out of date approach to the game. Walks are for sissies and real men swing early and often.

[Guest]

=D>

 

But it's ok to get into a bidding war for Furcal?

 

What bidding war? Between the Cubs and Braves? If he reports are to be believed, the Yanks and others are involved in the Giles sweepstakes. I'd say that's very different than the Furcal situation.

Who said other teams had to get involved for Hendry to engage in a bidding war? ;)

[CubinNY]

What a great start to the day. God, I hate the Cubs.

 

 

Is there any way we can wait on the signing of Giles, wherever it may be, before we begin thumping the Cubs for their ineptitude?

 

No. If you want to do that fine, refrain from posting. But why ask other to do it? If this is how you feel I'd suggest you avoid the whole transactions topic all together. That way you will not have to needlessly make such posts.

 

EDIT: I don't know that anybody has ever said that Sullivan doesn't have information correct. What people have complianed about is his gossip mongering, and foolish ideas. But I think he is the mouth piece of the Chicago Cubs.

 

Nothing like supressing speech and the free trade of ideas, which is wha tthis bd. is all about.

 

I couldn't agree more which exactly what his post was about.

 

Now on to Sullivan. Who broke the Sammygate story? Who broke the Farnsworth bad apple stuff? Who broke the Hariston is not playing b/c he missed signs stuff? Who broke the players confronting Stone and Chip?

 

I'd say he is pretty much glued into what is going on at Addison and Clark.

 

Now, I'll turn it arount to you. When has Sullivan reported something that later came out to be false?

 

Look, the guy is a hack, but he does nothing but spout the company line with an occasional gossipy tid bit. I think he has as much credibility as any beat writer include Brue Miles.

 

IMO, Sullivan has swung-and-missed a lot more han he's connected, and his columns tend to contradict each other from day-to-day, if you look closely. I still don't see any evidence that he is Hendry's mouthpiece, though. If Hendry is leaking that info to Sullivan, than Sullivan should cite to "highly placed anonymous sources".

 

BTW, I hope somone else notes that you are equating him to the revered Mr. Miles.

 

I didn't say he was as good as Miles, I said he has as much credibility. I don't like Sullivan. I've been critical of him b/c I think he likes to trade in usless gossip but I cannot think of an instance where he wrote somthing like, "Cubs are not interested in getting into a bidding war" and it turned out to be false. I think Beltran last year is a good case in point. He said Hendry would offer him X amount of dollars and X amount of years. And from all indications that is what happened.

[goonys evil twin]

=D>

 

But it's ok to get into a bidding war for Furcal?

 

What bidding war? Between the Cubs and Braves? If he reports are to be believed, the Yanks and others are involved in the Giles sweepstakes. I'd say that's very different than the Furcal situation.

 

The Mets are involved.

 

If you are willing to even consider a 5/50 for Furcal, but won't get in on the Giles talks while the numbers are still in the 3/30 range, you're just a plain old incompetent GM.

[soapy]

What a great start to the day. God, I hate the Cubs.

 

I dislike how people claim a "hatred" for the Cubs after reading the opinion--and that's exactly what the quoted text is, opinion--of one baseball writer. And it's funny, too, because the consensus of this board is that Paul Sullivan doesn't know what he's talking about. Yet today he knows all when it comes to the pursuit of Brian Giles.

 

Is there any way we can wait on the signing of Giles, wherever it may be, before we begin thumping the Cubs for their ineptitude?

 

You are right that I am overreacting (I obviously don't hate the Cubs). Also, Sullivan is less than reliable. But I'm very frustrated that the Cubs seem to have no apparent interest in Giles (unless he's dirt cheap). In addition, Sullivan hasn't been the first to mention the Ineifiable (wasn't that word invented last week?) Alex Gonzalez II as a possible target for the Cubs.

 

 

What are the Cubs supposed to say? If Hendry goes out and says "I am willing to pay whatever Brian Giles wants" everyone will be ticked that he's just driving his price up. Hendry's not a complete idiot, I bet what we hear from the newspapers, etc. is about 5% of what really happens.

 

Yeah, that's what I said. Come on. Of course I don't expect that. You can be interested and not act desperate. It's quite obvious that Giles has exactly what the Cubs are lacking. It appears that the Cubs have shown little to no interest in signing him because they "don't want to get into a bidding war". You can make an offer and pursue a player without going crazy about it.

 

Hendry (allegedly) is avoiding getting into a bidding war for Giles, but is (again allegedly) considering an absolutely outrageous 5/$50 for Furcal? That is absolutely absurd IMO. I'm not saying they shouldn't sign Fucal, but why go so crazy about him and not even get involved with Giles?

[CubbieRich]

I agree that the Cubs would be foolish to say 'they will spend whatever it takes' to land any player. Hendry has been quiet so far, preferring to stay out of the fray. Sullivan is just like Sam Smith(TRIB basketball columnist) he throws out all kinds of stuff-most of it just to get people to read their columns. Things are a little slow right now on the trade front, but these guys still have to crank out columns.

 

Here are some of the random items I have read(don't know where):

 

The Yankees and the Red Sox(if Damon leaves) would be interested in Corey Patterson for CF. Giles can't cover 'death valley' at Yankee Stadium at his age. CPat is cheap and while his hitting is pretty screwed up, he can still cover CF.

 

The Cubs are interested in looking at another 'Woody' for Spring Training- Former Giants LH.

 

Aubrey Huff may not be the player everyone thought. There were reports of his defensive problems. Does this make him less attractive for a possible Cubs trade? Speaking of Tampa Bay, what are they going to do about Jonny Gomes?

 

Is Pirate SS Jack Wilson suddenly on the block?

[goonys evil twin]

I'm not saying they shouldn't sign Fucal, but why go so crazy about him and not even get involved with Giles?

 

Because the Cubs have made the mistake of narrowing their focus too specifically on the need to improve leadoff instead of just improving the team overall. They've lamented that lack of traditional leadoff hitters in the league, which drives up the cost of the few remaining. And they've fallen right into the trap of overpaying for overhyped value. If the overall team production is good enough, it really doesn't matter who is hitting where. You get yourself into trouble when you make acquisitions for specific spots in the order, instead of just filling all 8 positions adaquately.

[goonys evil twin]

Is Pirate SS Jack Wilson suddenly on the block?

 

If Pittsburgh could get anything for him they should trade him in a heartbeat, but the Cubs better get nowhere near the white Neifi.

[soapy]

I'm not saying they shouldn't sign Fucal, but why go so crazy about him and not even get involved with Giles?

 

Because the Cubs have made the mistake of narrowing their focus too specifically on the need to improve leadoff instead of just improving the team overall. They've lamented that lack of traditional leadoff hitters in the league, which drives up the cost of the few remaining. And they've fallen right into the trap of overpaying for overhyped value. If the overall team production is good enough, it really doesn't matter who is hitting where. You get yourself into trouble when you make acquisitions for specific spots in the order, instead of just filling all 8 positions adaquately.

 

I agree. It was more of a rhetorical question.

 

I have this sinking feeling that Hendry has fallen victim to the myth of Scotty Po.

[BigbadB]

I'm not saying they shouldn't sign Fucal, but why go so crazy about him and not even get involved with Giles?

 

Because the Cubs have made the mistake of narrowing their focus too specifically on the need to improve leadoff instead of just improving the team overall. They've lamented that lack of traditional leadoff hitters in the league, which drives up the cost of the few remaining. And they've fallen right into the trap of overpaying for overhyped value. If the overall team production is good enough, it really doesn't matter who is hitting where. You get yourself into trouble when you make acquisitions for specific spots in the order, instead of just filling all 8 positions adaquately.

 

Agreed. The Yankees NEED a true CFer. Damon is there for the taking. It also sounds like they'd give him a 4/44m contract. Will Boston pony up that kind of cash for Damon?

 

Boston has the resources to give prospects to Florida for Pierre.

 

If the Yankees go the Damon route, who is going to offer Giles more than the Cubs can?

 

Get in the Giles bidding already and quit playing around. With the Furcal demands up around 5/50m, I'd be fine with Cedeno at SS.