Red Sox (Crochet) vs Cubs (Horton): 7/20/25, 1:20pm

[gflore34]

21 minutes ago, Stratos said:

I don't think they're as good as us.  I'm not even scoreboard watching.

I don't believe they're as good as the Cubs either and the statement of the Brewers being a superior organization is a gross overstatement.  By the way, those 2018 Brewers had an MVP season from Yelich and those 2015 Royals had near elite hitters in Hosmer, Cain and Moustakas, these Brewers have nothing remotely close to those kinds of bats.

[KCCub]

Couple general thoughts:

• Cubs are really horsefeathers good 
• Cubs do have holes and said holes will be discussed heavily until the TDL (Hopefully not much after)
• In no way should any Cubs fan be "scared" of the Brewers
• However, Brewers have won the division 3 out of the last 4 seasons and they aren't going to go away simply because of an average lineup (I wouldn't be shocked if WC hits closer to his norms the second half)
• How horsefeathers fun would this lineup be if we landed Bregman? 

 

[KCCub]

29 minutes ago, gflore34 said:

those 2015 Royals had near elite hitters in Hosmer, Cain and Moustakas, these Brewers have nothing remotely close to those kinds of bats.

2015 wRC+

Hosmer 124 
Cain 128 
Moose 123

 

FWIW - Morales was the Royals best hitter in 2015. Zobrist was obviously a huge deadline acquisition. If they had the lead going into the 7th, the game was over Herrera - Wade Davis - Holland.

Edited July 21, 2025 by KCCub

[Rcal10]

16 hours ago, JBears79 said:

The face of the matter is, the Cubs will not win the division if they do not add an ace caliber pitcher, a mid rotation pitcher, a first division 3rd baseman and a legit bench bat. 

The Brewers are a superior organization in every aspect except money. Jed and Tom piss their pants anytime they might have to use that advantage.

This is so not true. I do not agree that the Cubs won’t win the division without those upgrades. This is a huge overreaction to the Brewers playing well right now. I don’t expect the Brewers to go away. But I also think the Cubs can win the division without all the moves you are suggesting. They are a better team than the Brewers as they are now. 

[George Hayduke]

42 minutes ago, 17 Seconds said:

wait, what happened to Kyle? I just realized he hasn't been here

In the Severed TV show thread Kyle was giving a bunch of contrarian opinions and IMB basically told him, you’re being maximally Kyle-like right now. And he fired back with a personal insult to IMB, like completely out of bounds to the point where I don’t even want to repeat it here. And when called on it Kyle vowed to leave the board forever and I don’t think has been back since. This was maybe 2 or 3 months ago.

[gflore34]

31 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

This is so not true. I do not agree that the Cubs won’t win the division without those upgrades. This is a huge overreaction to the Brewers playing well right now. I don’t expect the Brewers to go away. But I also think the Cubs can win the division without all the moves you are suggesting. They are a better team than the Brewers as they are now. 

I agree, a couple of rentals - Kelly, Gallen or Lugo - would greatly help to solidify the starting staff and close the pitching gap between the teams, Urias or Castro would be a big help as well.  These aren't TOP types they're perfectly realistic and reasonable targets for the Cubs.

Edited July 21, 2025 by gflore34

[JBears79]

2 hours ago, Connor McConnor said:

But we signed Counsel away from them?   He gets paid tons of money to be great......right?  Do we have a better manager?

No I dont think so to be honest. Counsell isnt bad.  He does a good job but he makes absolute bone headed decisions with the bullpen sometimes. Like Pressly yesterday for example.

[gflore34]

2 minutes ago, JBears79 said:

No I dont think so to be honest. Counsell isnt bad.  He does a good job but he makes absolute bone headed decisions with the bullpen sometimes. Like Pressly yesterday for example.

I believe it was the lead off BB more than anything that was killer yesterday.  Don't know if you can blame Counsell for that, Pressly, yes, but, not Counsell.  Chances are if Pressly doesn't issue that walk the Cubs come out of that inning, at worst, tied.

[Bertz]

I don't want to get into the Brewers good/bad discussion, but one thing worth mentioning with them is IP considerations.  They're 5th in the league in reliever innings, and unlike years past it's not just just screwy accounting tied to using an opener.

On the SP side, Misiorowski will pass his career high in innings before the end of the month, and obviously Brandon Woodruff is an extreme injury risk.

So in the same way that we look at the Cubs' staff and worry about arms exploding left and right down the stretch, the Brewers have the same worries.  

[JBears79]

Just now, gflore34 said:

I believe it was the lead off BB more than anything that was killer yesterday.  Don't know if you can blame Counsell for that, Pressly, yes, but, not Counsell.  Chances are if Pressly doesn't issue that walk the Cubs come out of that inning, at worst, tied.

I don't blame Counsell for the performance, I blame him for the decision to go to Pressly. I would agree with you if Pressly had consistently been performing throughout this season but he hasn't. You don't put a guy like that in in a one run game, ever. It's just common sense. He's a guy who eats innings in the 6th or 7th when your up 4 with a very short leash. Those are the high leverage situations where our lack of power arms fails us. Overall, I like what he's done with the bullpen but its dumb mistakes like that that take away opportunities to scrap out a win or too. 

 

We can argue about how much a manager actually affects overall win loss records throughout a season and I think that is one of the ways they do.

[Brian707]

If the Cubs didn't leave 78 men on base yesterday and make stupid baserunning decisions it wouldn't have been a 1 run game

[KCCub]

4 minutes ago, JBears79 said:

Those are the high leverage situations where our lack of power arms fails us. Overall, I like what he's done with the bullpen but its dumb mistakes like that that take away opportunities to scrap out a win or too. 

The lack of power arms isn't CC's fault...

[17 Seconds]

35 minutes ago, George Hayduke said:

In the Severed TV show thread Kyle was giving a bunch of contrarian opinions and IMB basically told him, you’re being maximally Kyle-like right now. And he fired back with a personal insult to IMB, like completely out of bounds to the point where I don’t even want to repeat it here. And when called on it Kyle vowed to leave the board forever and I don’t think has been back since. This was maybe 2 or 3 months ago.

good lord, i just saw it. now i feel bad for even bringing it up

[soccer10k]

Just now, 17 Seconds said:

good lord, i just saw it. now i feel bad for even bringing it up

Yeah that was really bad.

I just assumed Kyle was in one of his phases where he’s completely lost interest in the Cubs and disappeared.

[KCCub]

11 minutes ago, Bertz said:

I don't want to get into the Brewers good/bad discussion, but one thing worth mentioning with them is IP considerations.  They're 5th in the league in reliever innings, and unlike years past it's not just just screwy accounting tied to using an opener.

On the SP side, Misiorowski will pass his career high in innings before the end of the month, and obviously Brandon Woodruff is an extreme injury risk.

So in the same way that we look at the Cubs' staff and worry about arms exploding left and right down the stretch, the Brewers have the same worries.  

Yep this is true. They also have a plethora of depth options though. Cortes will be back within a week or so, have Henderson and Chad Patrick waiting in the wings, etc. Just rich with solid arms. 

[JBears79]

6 minutes ago, KCCub said:

The lack of power arms isn't CC's fault...

Sure, but you still don't go to Pressly there. You go to literally anyone else.

[chibears55]

53 minutes ago, KCCub said:

 If they had the lead going into the 7th, the game was over Herrera - Wade Davis - Holland.

This is one part of what I truly hope Hoyer addresses at the deadline, adding a guy to strengthen the backend of the bullpen. 

During the postseason in the last few years we have seen how much a solid bullpen can go a long way with winning as starters are mostly expected to get 6 innings at most.

I would love to see the Cubs add another big arm to go with Palencia Flexen and Theilbar to close games out from 7th inning on.

I think theyll be fine with the mix of others that they have to get through the rest of game if needed.

Pressly, Pomeranz, Keller, Brasier etc.

 

[We Got The Whole 9]

11 minutes ago, JBears79 said:

Sure, but you still don't go to Pressly there. You go to literally anyone else.

Not the guy with the 2.7 FIP since his Giants blowup?

[KCCub]

3 minutes ago, JBears79 said:

Sure, but you still don't go to Pressly there. You go to literally anyone else.

That's easier said than done. His options were leave Thielbar in to face righty, lefty, righty (Remember they had Bregman on the bench ready to PH), Pomeranz (See Thielbar) + he gave up 3 runs, Roberts (2 hits and a run), Braiser on back to back, Flexen starting today, and they're not going Kriske in leverage. If you go Keller in the 7th on back to back nights, Pressly is pitching the 8th. Damned if you do damned if you don't. 

[BigSlick]

The Vaunted Brewers will never piss me off as much as Cardinals Pixie Dust. But give it another 20 years and maybe it will. 

[gflore34]

26 minutes ago, BigSlick said:

The Vaunted Brewers will never piss me off as much as Cardinals Pixie Dust. But give it another 20 years and maybe it will. 

That horsefeathers Tony Womack in 2004, his career year, and still couldn't manage a league average OPS+.  Nevertheless, of course, his only "good" year had to come as a Cardinal.

[CubUgly]

2 hours ago, Rcal10 said:

This is so not true. I do not agree that the Cubs won’t win the division without those upgrades. This is a huge overreaction to the Brewers playing well right now. I don’t expect the Brewers to go away. But I also think the Cubs can win the division without all the moves you are suggesting. They are a better team than the Brewers as they are now. 

I'm going to repeat my main concerns - and that's that I have real doubt that Boyd and Horton can make it to October and/or maintain their effectiveness given their more recent past pitching workloads prior to this year.  I think not having a contingency for that very real possibility would be borderline negligence. 

[BigSlick]

34 minutes ago, gflore34 said:

That horsefeathers Tony Womack in 2004, his career year, and still couldn't manage a league average OPS+.  Nevertheless, of course, his only "good" year had to come as a Cardinal.

The Sun rises in the East and set in the West, we live, and we die, and the most dependable thing you can set your watch to is that the Cardinals will have some bum middle infielder put up a 120 OPS+ and turn to dust the second he goes somewhere else 

So it is written, so it will be done

Edited July 21, 2025 by BigSlick

[PeanutPunch33]

The Brewers rotation is 5 deep and they have a very good pen too.  They are a lot like those Rays teams we’ve seen over the years.  I don’t think they have the star power to advance deep into the post season but it would not surprise me at all if the division race comes down to the last week.  They are very solid.  

And if one accepts that they will also be active at the deadline for hitting, possibly even Suarez or a young piece from the Orioles, they suddenly do become a very dangerous team that can win the World Series.

We shouldn’t underestimate them at all.  They are a real threat.  As of right now, tied with the 2nd best record in baseball - that’s no fluke.  

edit - typo 

Edited July 21, 2025 by PeanutPunch33