Kris Bryant is awesome and we were always right to love him

[ConstableRabbit]

The way he's playing, 19 games for Lindor is damn near 1 fWAR.

 

Now is this point where we jump to, "oh, well Bryant doesn't get to to hit #1, but if he did..."?

Are you saying that you value Lindor over Bryant because he averages more PAs per game with a straight face, or is this part of your "the Cubs suck and I hope they lose forever" schtick?

 

I value Lindor more because he's younger, is much better defensively at a much more important position, and, most critically (IMO), is not showing signs that he's going to be a much more inconsistent or diminished player because of a chronic injury/pan/discomfort issue. I just figured since people are trying to parse the tiniest possible differences between the two in an effort to make anyone who would prefer Lindor over Bryant to be a dolt (see your gigantic reach of a response), I'd head that off that at the pass since Bryant's spent most the year batting 2nd, so whatever. All of the Fangraphs' projects for the rest of the season have Lindor being worth another 1 fWAR, so, again, Lindor missing 19 games arguably shorted him "damn near 1 fWAR."

 

Also, yes, the Cubs do suck, but I only hope they lose most of the time. I'm feeling magnanimous today since it's the Brewers.

I don't think it's foolish for someone to compare Bryant to Lindor and prefer Lindor.

 

I do think it's foolish to "fWAR per game" or whatever it is you're using to compare any two players. It's heavily reliant on PA/G which is often out of the player's hands. Production weighted to number of PAs is far more reasonable.

[squally1313]

All things being equal, Lindor > Bryant. Position scarcity, youth, zips projections, etc. Its not a huge gap, but it’s hard to argue the other way.

 

When you factor moving Baez to a less valuable position, I think the difference becomes almost negligible. The difficulty in threading the needle in pulling off these two deals (again, anytime anyone wants to find a team that wants KB but not Lindor) for that minimal at best upgrade is not worth it to me.

[We Got The Whole 9]

In this theoretical move do you push Baez to 3rd or CF? I lean CF. I bet he would be excellent with sugnificant reps. We know hed be great at 3B but hed be more valuable in CF if he could provide plus defense.

[squally1313]

In this theoretical move do you push Baez to 3rd or CF? I lean CF. I bet he would be excellent with sugnificant reps. We know hed be great at 3B but hed be more valuable in CF if he could provide plus defense.

I don’t really think we know either of those things.

 

Edit: I mean, Jason Heyward is an average center fielder

[Deeg]

I can see a case for trading Contreras and keeping Bryant. Caratini has made remarkable progress as a receiver (he's ranked 18th of 104 catchers in framing this season - Willson is 97th). Darvish is a notoriously difficult guy to catch, and he's obviously developed a rapport with slick Vic. Caratini will never be Contreras when it comes to throwing out base stealers, and probably never with the bat either. But I think the body of evidence is he'll be an above-average hitter for the position, and possibly above-average overall defensively. Amaya has star potential, albeit 2-3 years down the road. If you could get a big enough haul for Contreras and decide to do a major remaking of the roster, you'd have to consider it.

[PackLandVA]

My head hurts.

[Deeg]

I didn't even consider Caratini in why to trade Contreras, but he seems like a not terrible option. A good backup with starting experience should be cheap as usual, and there's options like Jason Castro, Zunino, Chirinos, Martin...A couple of the things I said about trading Bryant (shame, shame) might be true of Contreras because money and OK because he isn't Bryant: the Braves make sense and he can net an impact prospect like Waters. In general I'd love to trade him for an OF: Betts, Gallol, bigdropoffbutmoney, Dahl+, Margot+, Waters+, Kiriloff++, if the Cardinals want to send over Dylan Carlson they're welcome....other words

 

I mean, obviously you're not going to consider it unless it's a huge haul - Contreras is one of the elite hitting catchers in the game, and has 3 more years of team control. But a real overhaul would necessitate someone from the core being moved, and I can't see it being Baez or Rizzo. And while different clubs value it differently, it's looking as if Contreras is always going to be among the worst framers in the game.

[Tryptamine]

I've mentioned it elsewhere before but I'd certainly be game for dealing Bryant to Atlanta for something like Fried and Pache/Waters. Sign Donaldson to a 2 year deal, resign Nick to a 3 year deal and spend the rest on the pen/Baez extension/deadline move.

[Tryptamine]

I've mentioned it elsewhere before but I'd certainly be game for dealing Bryant to Atlanta for something like Fried and Pache/Waters. Sign Donaldson to a 2 year deal, resign Nick to a 3 year deal and spend the rest on the pen/Baez extension/deadline move.

 

I want that for Contreras, nice start for Bryant I guess and if you throw in Anderson and Newcomb it's not not a fairly serious offer probably short a bat

 

I think adding Shewmake is about as much as you're reasonably going to get. They're not going to deal a likely 3fWAR pitcher who isn't a FA until 2025, a top 30 prospect, a top 50 prospect and one of their bigger upside pen arms for 2 years of Bryant. I can't think of any recent trade where anyone got near that kind of haul.

[17 Seconds]

MILWAUKEE -- Kris Bryant stopped by the office of Cubs manager Joe Maddon following Saturday's loss to the Brewers. The third baseman has been trying to stay on the field as he works through a right knee issue, but the discomfort flared up again in his latest attempt.

 

"When he comes in and says he needs a day, then you know," Maddon said prior to Sunday's series finale at Miller Park. "Because, he's played through a lot of different maladies."

 

or maybe you could figure it out without him being forced to come to you

[NOLA]

MILWAUKEE -- Kris Bryant stopped by the office of Cubs manager Joe Maddon following Saturday's loss to the Brewers. The third baseman has been trying to stay on the field as he works through a right knee issue, but the discomfort flared up again in his latest attempt.

 

"When he comes in and says he needs a day, then you know," Maddon said prior to Sunday's series finale at Miller Park. "Because, he's played through a lot of different maladies."

 

or maybe you could figure it out without him being forced to come to you

I mean...seriously. THEN you know???

[Cubswin11]

[tweet]

[/tweet]

[badger]

[tweet] https://twitter.com/Cubs_Live/status/1194789355400912897[/tweet]

 

I don’t know how reliable Levine is but this is hopeful news

[Cubswin11]

[tweet] https://twitter.com/Cubs_Live/status/1194789355400912897[/tweet]

 

I don’t know how reliable Levine is but this is hopeful news

Guessing it’s this tweet. I’m sure if they gave him the Arenado contract +/- he’d take it, but I doubt they offer that. He’s gonna make $40-45 mil in arbitration the next two years then is a FA at 30, does a 30 year old KB get more than like 6-7/170-200 in FA? I’m not sold he does.

 

I’m sure the Cubs would be fine giving him like 8/210 today (so would I, or like 9/230, 10/250 and Cub for life him). But he probably wants the 8/260+ that Arenando got, which I get why him and Boras would use that as the benchmark but I also think it’s an unreasonable basis given Arenado was 27 when he signed that and would’ve been a FA at 28 (only bought out 1 Arb year in which he was projected around ~$30 mil so he essentially signed 7/230 as a FA at 28). If that’s what they hold firm on you just ride it out through arbitration and see what FA brings for him.

 

[Transmogrified Tiger]

If paying Bryant ~6 million a year more than is comfortable is what it takes, then I'm on board right away. I won't try to convince everyone it's the best decision in the world, but especially if you're mitigating risk by making it 8 years from today instead of Free Agency it's easy for me to talk myself into it. Only downside is the havoc that wreaks on this offseason from an LT perspective.

[Brian]

I don’t know how reliable Levine is but this is hopeful news

 

I'm pretty sure there are quotes from Bryant himself saying he's open to an extension, if I recall correctly he also pushed back on the 'Boras guys don't sign extensions' assumption stating that he was the boss.

[JudasIscariotTheBird]

Now that he and Boas have folded

Folded?

[Andy]

They could easily let him hit FA, collect the draft pick, and use that draft pick to go get the next Bryant who would be a dozen years younger and maybe even perhaps have more potential.

Yes it's quite simple to draft a player who will win a league MVP award within 40 months of being drafted.

[squally1313]

Now that he and Boas have folded, inevitable due to leverages, it becomes time to discuss whether extending him is Worth It as far as Value. Bryant is Aging and with Aging comes Declining and only that. From there ever since he won the Golden Spikes, went two in the draft, signed a franchise record deal, won MiL PoY, then ML RoY, and then a NL MVP along with a WS ring over a 4 year span the guy has really struggled to get it going. In the three years since he's averaged what, maybe 4 WAR? What kind of upside, what kind of Value, does a player like that have in his late 20s and (*spits then vomits*) his 30s? The Cubs *need* to get the absolute best possible Value out of this situation. It really disgusts me to see how far behind this franchise has fallen behind the Dodgers among others, and if they lock up Bryant to a deal that drags down payroll for years and years without proper and perfect Value it's pretty much set they'll never surpass Friedman's unprecedented successes over there. Do we want that for the Cubs' Future? Is that the goal? To be some team that spends money to retain their best players *knowing* what that does to the Budget and The Future? To take ourselves out of FAs like Anthony Rendon right off the bat?

 

Bryant may be willing to extend but perhaps the Cubs should be most willing to say no. They could easily let him hit FA, collect the draft pick, and use that draft pick to go get the next Bryant who would be a dozen years younger and maybe even perhaps have more potential. Some people think age is nothing but a number but Baseball Stats wise it's like the main number along with $/WAR and those are two things Bryant has no shot at being an MVP in

 

This whole rant is pretty unhinged, but the bolded might be my favorite. He's put up 13.8 WAR in the last three years, which is not a difficult thing to fact check. That's also missing 50ish games in 2018, and sure, I'll even ignore the damage the injuries did while he was playing.

 

Seriously man, all these weird capitalizations is very Trump-y. Everything alright?

[JennieGarthAlgar]

Sucks that Theo cant sign 29 year old Anthony Rendon because he will be vomiting too hard from signing 27 year old Kris Bryant knowing he will be 30 some day Edited November 14, 2019 by JennieGarthAlgar

[Sammy Sofa]

Now that he and Boas have folded, inevitable due to leverages, it becomes time to discuss whether extending him is Worth It as far as Value. Bryant is Aging and with Aging comes Declining and only that. From there ever since he won the Golden Spikes, went two in the draft, signed a franchise record deal, won MiL PoY, then ML RoY, and then a NL MVP along with a WS ring over a 4 year span the guy has really struggled to get it going. In the three years since he's averaged what, maybe 4 WAR? What kind of upside, what kind of Value, does a player like that have in his late 20s and (*spits then vomits*) his 30s? The Cubs *need* to get the absolute best possible Value out of this situation. It really disgusts me to see how far behind this franchise has fallen behind the Dodgers among others, and if they lock up Bryant to a deal that drags down payroll for years and years without proper and perfect Value it's pretty much set they'll never surpass Friedman's unprecedented successes over there. Do we want that for the Cubs' Future? Is that the goal? To be some team that spends money to retain their best players *knowing* what that does to the Budget and The Future? To take ourselves out of FAs like Anthony Rendon right off the bat?

 

Bryant may be willing to extend but perhaps the Cubs should be most willing to say no. They could easily let him hit FA, collect the draft pick, and use that draft pick to go get the next Bryant who would be a dozen years younger and maybe even perhaps have more potential. Some people think age is nothing but a number but Baseball Stats wise it's like the main number along with $/WAR and those are two things Bryant has no shot at being an MVP in

 

This whole rant is pretty unhinged, but the bolded might be my favorite. He's put up 13.8 WAR in the last three years, which is not a difficult thing to fact check. That's also missing 50ish games in 2018, and sure, I'll even ignore the damage the injuries did while he was playing.

 

Seriously man, all these weird capitalizations is very Trump-y. Everything alright?

 

It was genuinely uncomfortable to read. Like someone screaming terrifying horsefeathers on a crowded train.

[javy knows my name]

Now that he and Boas have folded, inevitable due to leverages, it becomes time to discuss whether extending him is Worth It as far as Value. Bryant is Aging and with Aging comes Declining and only that. From there ever since he won the Golden Spikes, went two in the draft, signed a franchise record deal, won MiL PoY, then ML RoY, and then a NL MVP along with a WS ring over a 4 year span the guy has really struggled to get it going. In the three years since he's averaged what, maybe 4 WAR? What kind of upside, what kind of Value, does a player like that have in his late 20s and (*spits then vomits*) his 30s? The Cubs *need* to get the absolute best possible Value out of this situation. It really disgusts me to see how far behind this franchise has fallen behind the Dodgers among others, and if they lock up Bryant to a deal that drags down payroll for years and years without proper and perfect Value it's pretty much set they'll never surpass Friedman's unprecedented successes over there. Do we want that for the Cubs' Future? Is that the goal? To be some team that spends money to retain their best players *knowing* what that does to the Budget and The Future? To take ourselves out of FAs like Anthony Rendon right off the bat?

 

Bryant may be willing to extend but perhaps the Cubs should be most willing to say no. They could easily let him hit FA, collect the draft pick, and use that draft pick to go get the next Bryant who would be a dozen years younger and maybe even perhaps have more potential. Some people think age is nothing but a number but Baseball Stats wise it's like the main number along with $/WAR and those are two things Bryant has no shot at being an MVP in

 

I don't really want to make too much fun of someone who's obviously having a manic episode, but I REALLY want TT to give this the Ken Tremendous treatment

[javy knows my name]

Now that he and Boas have folded

Folded?

 

Forget it, he's on a roll

[imb]

Now that he and Boas have folded, inevitable due to leverages, it becomes time to discuss whether extending him is Worth It as far as Value. Bryant is Aging and with Aging comes Declining and only that. From there ever since he won the Golden Spikes, went two in the draft, signed a franchise record deal, won MiL PoY, then ML RoY, and then a NL MVP along with a WS ring over a 4 year span the guy has really struggled to get it going. In the three years since he's averaged what, maybe 4 WAR? What kind of upside, what kind of Value, does a player like that have in his late 20s and (*spits then vomits*) his 30s? The Cubs *need* to get the absolute best possible Value out of this situation. It really disgusts me to see how far behind this franchise has fallen behind the Dodgers among others, and if they lock up Bryant to a deal that drags down payroll for years and years without proper and perfect Value it's pretty much set they'll never surpass Friedman's unprecedented successes over there. Do we want that for the Cubs' Future? Is that the goal? To be some team that spends money to retain their best players *knowing* what that does to the Budget and The Future? To take ourselves out of FAs like Anthony Rendon right off the bat?

 

Bryant may be willing to extend but perhaps the Cubs should be most willing to say no. They could easily let him hit FA, collect the draft pick, and use that draft pick to go get the next Bryant who would be a dozen years younger and maybe even perhaps have more potential. Some people think age is nothing but a number but Baseball Stats wise it's like the main number along with $/WAR and those are two things Bryant has no shot at being an MVP in

 

this feels like something that should have been hand-written and snail-mailed to like three dozen newspapers across the country

[weis21]

I simply can’t move past the Random Capitalization