Re: What would you deal Garza for?

[Brett]

if the return for garza is drabek and gose i will burn down wrigley field.

 

Rizzo and Simpson sounds a bit light to me, too.

[jersey cubs fan]

2. Garza to the Boston Red Sox

In return: 3B Kolbrin Vitek, RHP Anthony Ranaudo, RHP Brandon Workman and 2B Sean Coyle

 

...If the return for Garza seems a bit much, consider that what could be factored into any deal for Garza is the yet-to-be-determined compensation owed to the Red Sox for allowing the Cubs to poach Epstein.

 

If you are trying to factor in the compensation, why would you make it so the return for Garza "seems a bit much"? Why wouldn't you make it seem a bit weak?

Edited December 23, 2011 by jersey cubs fan

[Backtobanks]

Jim Bowden presents these thoughts on possible Garza suitors and returns: http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/the-gms-office/post?id=2981 (insider)

 

1. Garza to the Toronto Blue Jays

In return: RHP Kyle Drabek, OF Anthony Gose

 

...For the Cubs, Drabek shows all the signs of developing into a Garza-type pitcher despite a rough 2011, while Gose would give them another potential center fielder of the future with a lot of upside. He might have the best set of pure tools in the minors.

 

2. Garza to the Boston Red Sox

In return: 3B Kolbrin Vitek, RHP Anthony Ranaudo, RHP Brandon Workman and 2B Sean Coyle

 

...If the return for Garza seems a bit much, consider that what could be factored into any deal for Garza is the yet-to-be-determined compensation owed to the Red Sox for allowing the Cubs to poach Epstein. Ranaudo has a chance to be an effective No. 2 starter in any rotation. Vitek is a 2010 first-rounder who has eventual 15-home run power and an excellent eye at the plate. Workman is a 2010 second-rounder with a sinking, heavy fastball who profiles as a back-of-the rotation type. Coyle is the kind of player who will be compared to Dustin Pedroia because he's small (5-foot-8) and plays the same position. He showed some pop by cranking 14 homers for low Class A Greenville last year at the age of 19.

 

3. Garza to the San Diego Padres

In return: IF Anthony Rizzo, RHP Keyvius Sampson

 

...The Cubs do not have a long-term solution at first base, and Rizzo -- who had a 1.056 OPS at Triple-A Tuscon last year and was drafted by Epstein's regime in Boston -- could slot in as Chicago's first baseman for the next decade. Sampson had an excellent year in low Class A, striking out 143 in 118 innings while walking just 49.

 

Two of these proposals give us 2 prospects. I would think Garza should net us at least 3.

[Gilby]

I'm glad Jim Bowden is not our GM. Drabek hardly has enough value right now to headline a Garza deal.

 

And I would hate factoring the compensation issue into a Garza deal. That should be done separately. Garza is our best trade asset after Castro, and we need to trade him for everything we can get.

[TruffleShuffle]

Two of these proposals give us 2 prospects. I would think Garza should net us at least 3.

 

who cares how many prospects are involved? if one of the prospects is someone like julio teheran or shelby miller, we don't need 3 or more guys in return.

[Guest]

2. Garza to the Boston Red Sox

In return: 3B Kolbrin Vitek, RHP Anthony Ranaudo, RHP Brandon Workman and 2B Sean Coyle

 

...If the return for Garza seems a bit much, consider that what could be factored into any deal for Garza is the yet-to-be-determined compensation owed to the Red Sox for allowing the Cubs to poach Epstein.

 

If you are trying to factor in the compensation, why would you make it so the return for Garza "seems a bit much"? Why wouldn't you make it seem a bit weak?

 

He got paid money to run a Major League Baseball team.

[davell]

At this point, being the best guy on the market and having 3 AL East teams in the mix, I think one top 50 prospect, one top 100ish guy, one guy in the low minors with high upside, and one major league stopgap cheap starter. I'm going to say we'll target pitching moreso than anything too, so I don't think Boston has a realistic shot.

[toonsterwu]

Random thought as I pack for a business trip -

 

Okay, still pondering the Andracki blurb on CSNChicago saying that we'd be targeting a catching prospect and a first base prospect in a Garza trade. Sounds speculative on his part, but pondering it.

 

One of the teams that has a good C/corner combination are the Marlins. Yelich is a first baseman that's athletic enough to play the OF (though I don't buy him in CF) and Realmuto is one of the better catching prospects in the game. One thought is that they supposedly pursued Gonzalez fairly hard, and I do wonder if they'd pursue Garza. That said, I'm not sure they have enough to offer in a deal that would entice me, barring Morrison being offered. Volstad/Yelich/Realmuto is mildly intriguing, but I don't feel like that's enough.

 

My 2nd thought involved the Marlins as a 3rd team in a deal. If Garza went to say, the Blue Jays, and we got back Gose (who I'm not as high on as Keith Law, I guess), that could give us the flexibility to flip Gose or Brett Jackson in a deal. While there hasn't been rumors suggesting as such, I wonder if the Marlins may be intrigued in an upgrade in CF, and Brett might be capable of stepping in and being as good as Bonifacio or Coghlan next year. Perhaps some sort of Jackson and ? for Yelich and Realmuto type deal might intrigue them. Would really give them a strong young core to compete next year, and prime them for a strong year, but they may be hesitant to part with top chips for anything besides another starter.

 

Tis the silly season and packing gets boring.

[davell]

I think the Marlins will go all-in on Cespedes, to the point where I think it's a foregone conclusion that's where he's headed. Plus, I personally think with the lack of quality pitching, especially at the higher levels, will almost assure us of getting back a bigtime pitching prospect. Probably as the headliner. In fact, I'll be surprised if we don't wind up with 2 pitching prospects out of a Garza deal that don't slot immediately into our top 10.

[toonsterwu]

If they get Cespedes, it would make this moot, as Yoennis would likely take the CF job.

 

Btw, davell, I was thinking Garza for Gose, pitching prospects, and others, and a second move of spinning off Brett Jackson. Marlins come to mind, but there are other organizations that Jackson might be able to step in and perhaps be an upgrade next year.

[Rob]

Random thought as I pack for a business trip -

 

Okay, still pondering the Andracki blurb on CSNChicago saying that we'd be targeting a catching prospect and a first base prospect in a Garza trade. Sounds speculative on his part, but pondering it.

 

One of the teams that has a good C/corner combination are the Marlins. Yelich is a first baseman that's athletic enough to play the OF (though I don't buy him in CF) and Realmuto is one of the better catching prospects in the game. One thought is that they supposedly pursued Gonzalez fairly hard, and I do wonder if they'd pursue Garza. That said, I'm not sure they have enough to offer in a deal that would entice me, barring Morrison being offered. Volstad/Yelich/Realmuto is mildly intriguing, but I don't feel like that's enough.

 

My 2nd thought involved the Marlins as a 3rd team in a deal. If Garza went to say, the Blue Jays, and we got back Gose (who I'm not as high on as Keith Law, I guess), that could give us the flexibility to flip Gose or Brett Jackson in a deal. While there hasn't been rumors suggesting as such, I wonder if the Marlins may be intrigued in an upgrade in CF, and Brett might be capable of stepping in and being as good as Bonifacio or Coghlan next year. Perhaps some sort of Jackson and ? for Yelich and Realmuto type deal might intrigue them. Would really give them a strong young core to compete next year, and prime them for a strong year, but they may be hesitant to part with top chips for anything besides another starter.

 

Tis the silly season and packing gets boring.

 

What are your thoughts on Matt Dominguez? I think if the Marlins came out offering Morrison and Dominguez, I'd certainly at least have to consider it.

[toonsterwu]

Random thought as I pack for a business trip -

 

Okay, still pondering the Andracki blurb on CSNChicago saying that we'd be targeting a catching prospect and a first base prospect in a Garza trade. Sounds speculative on his part, but pondering it.

 

One of the teams that has a good C/corner combination are the Marlins. Yelich is a first baseman that's athletic enough to play the OF (though I don't buy him in CF) and Realmuto is one of the better catching prospects in the game. One thought is that they supposedly pursued Gonzalez fairly hard, and I do wonder if they'd pursue Garza. That said, I'm not sure they have enough to offer in a deal that would entice me, barring Morrison being offered. Volstad/Yelich/Realmuto is mildly intriguing, but I don't feel like that's enough.

 

My 2nd thought involved the Marlins as a 3rd team in a deal. If Garza went to say, the Blue Jays, and we got back Gose (who I'm not as high on as Keith Law, I guess), that could give us the flexibility to flip Gose or Brett Jackson in a deal. While there hasn't been rumors suggesting as such, I wonder if the Marlins may be intrigued in an upgrade in CF, and Brett might be capable of stepping in and being as good as Bonifacio or Coghlan next year. Perhaps some sort of Jackson and ? for Yelich and Realmuto type deal might intrigue them. Would really give them a strong young core to compete next year, and prime them for a strong year, but they may be hesitant to part with top chips for anything besides another starter.

 

Tis the silly season and packing gets boring.

 

What are your thoughts on Matt Dominguez? I think if the Marlins came out offering Morrison and Dominguez, I'd certainly at least have to consider it.

 

In a Garza deal?

 

I think Matt Dominguez is fine as a stopgap starter (by this, I mean for a few years), but not a long term guy for me, and I don't really love the idea of Dominguez as the number 2 piece in a Garza deal. Still, if they offered Morrison, that would make things enticing. If they offered say, Morrison, Volstad, with either Realmuto or Yelich as another piece, I'd be enticed. Not sure Volstad is great as a 2nd piece, though, but the prospect of getting Morrison would be exciting.

[Little Slide Rooter]

If they get Cespedes, it would make this moot, as Yoennis would likely take the CF job.

 

Btw, davell, I was thinking Garza for Gose, pitching prospects, and others, and a second move of spinning off Brett Jackson. Marlins come to mind, but there are other organizations that Jackson might be able to step in and perhaps be an upgrade next year.

 

I really don't have any interest in Gose. I'd prefer keep Jackson and if Szczur, Ha, or Silva make strides then we consider moving Jackson. It seems like our farm system is already full of center fielders, as well as middle infielders and starters who can hopefully be mid rotation guys.

[TruffleShuffle]

our system is not full of middle infielders, and everyone's system is full of guys with a ceiling as a mid-rotation guy.

[soonercub]

Matt Dominguez can't hit. If you could morph his defense with Vitters hit tool you might have a good 3rd baseman.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Random thought as I pack for a business trip -

 

Okay, still pondering the Andracki blurb on CSNChicago saying that we'd be targeting a catching prospect and a first base prospect in a Garza trade. Sounds speculative on his part, but pondering it.

 

One of the teams that has a good C/corner combination are the Marlins. Yelich is a first baseman that's athletic enough to play the OF (though I don't buy him in CF) and Realmuto is one of the better catching prospects in the game. One thought is that they supposedly pursued Gonzalez fairly hard, and I do wonder if they'd pursue Garza. That said, I'm not sure they have enough to offer in a deal that would entice me, barring Morrison being offered. Volstad/Yelich/Realmuto is mildly intriguing, but I don't feel like that's enough.

 

My 2nd thought involved the Marlins as a 3rd team in a deal. If Garza went to say, the Blue Jays, and we got back Gose (who I'm not as high on as Keith Law, I guess), that could give us the flexibility to flip Gose or Brett Jackson in a deal. While there hasn't been rumors suggesting as such, I wonder if the Marlins may be intrigued in an upgrade in CF, and Brett might be capable of stepping in and being as good as Bonifacio or Coghlan next year. Perhaps some sort of Jackson and ? for Yelich and Realmuto type deal might intrigue them. Would really give them a strong young core to compete next year, and prime them for a strong year, but they may be hesitant to part with top chips for anything besides another starter.

 

Tis the silly season and packing gets boring.

 

What are your thoughts on Matt Dominguez? I think if the Marlins came out offering Morrison and Dominguez, I'd certainly at least have to consider it.

 

In a Garza deal?

 

I think Matt Dominguez is fine as a stopgap starter (by this, I mean for a few years), but not a long term guy for me, and I don't really love the idea of Dominguez as the number 2 piece in a Garza deal. Still, if they offered Morrison, that would make things enticing. If they offered say, Morrison, Volstad, with either Realmuto or Yelich as another piece, I'd be enticed. Not sure Volstad is great as a 2nd piece, though, but the prospect of getting Morrison would be exciting.

 

Volatad narrowly missed being non tendered. I'd take him as a 4th piece, but if dealing with the Marlins I'd want to start with LoMo and Dominguez would be a nice 3rd piece but I'd want something in between. I won't even suggest Stanton but I'm sure they have some interesting high upside guys in A or AA. Depending. On what else they're in the market for I'd be happy to expand the deal.

[toonsterwu]

I'm a big fan of Brett Jackson, but I tend to think, in any trade like a potential Garza trade, you simply target the best available talent (akin to the Padres targeting Alonso in a Latos deal) and then sort things out later. With Szczur having a glaring issue to work on, he's a good 2 years away, and it seems more and more folks are moving away from the insane praise that some gave Szczur early and talking about him as a guy who, if he reaches his ceiling, is a decent starter in CF.

 

Our MI depth in the upper levels is going to be ... pretty crappy next year. The Watkins/Cerda group of guys, the group of guys that had some folks worrying about the system a year ago when the Peoria team then looked so iffy on talent, will likely be fitting some of the key roles in AA, along with Lake. The Peoria crop was pretty bad this past year. Alcantara just can't hit enough. Guys like LePage and Soccorro ... not that enticing. The Boise crop was pretty iffy this year until the draft picks came in. I liked Darvill, but he's never really taken the steps forward. DeVoss offers some intrigue if he's in the MI, and Rubi Silva may play some 2nd, depending on how rosters shake out.

 

Lower on, there's a lot of intriguing pieces for the MI, and the depth could be replenished in a year. I don't think it'd surprise anyone here if Marco Hernandez and/or Gioskar Amaya are forcing their way into full-season leagues by midseason, if not earlier. Very curious how Penalver looks in Arizona.

 

* - I don't really think of Baez as a MI, but I guess he's likely to stay there for now, and he's likely to be in Peoria now that I think about it.

[Little Slide Rooter]

our system is not full of middle infielders, and everyone's system is full of guys with a ceiling as a mid-rotation guy.

 

Junior Lake, Giosker Amaya, Oscar Hernandez, Logan Watkins, Javier Baez(although he's supposedly ticketed for 3rd) I think we have enough middle infielders especially since I'm hoping that SS will be held down by Castro for many, many years.

[TruffleShuffle]

our system is not full of middle infielders, and everyone's system is full of guys with a ceiling as a mid-rotation guy.

 

Junior Lake, Giosker Amaya, Oscar Hernandez, Logan Watkins, Javier Baez(although he's supposedly ticketed for 3rd) I think we have enough middle infielders especially since I'm hoping that SS will be held down by Castro for many, many years.

 

junior lake will outgrow ss if he hasn't already. amaya and marco hernandez are teenagers in short season ball, logan watkins is more of a utility guy, and baez is going to outgrow ss.

[toonsterwu]

our system is not full of middle infielders, and everyone's system is full of guys with a ceiling as a mid-rotation guy.

 

Junior Lake, Giosker Amaya, Oscar Hernandez, Logan Watkins, Javier Baez(although he's supposedly ticketed for 3rd) I think we have enough middle infielders especially since I'm hoping that SS will be held down by Castro for many, many years.

 

Most of those guys are going to be in the low levels (and I'm assuming you mean Marco). The upper levels aren't going to be a pretty picture, and Baez/Lake/Amaya may all be best served moving to the hot corner. Watkins may be more of a utility guy, if he makes it up, but there's a chance at 2nd. Got to see if his 2nd half offensive surge showed any real improvements.

[Little Slide Rooter]

our system is not full of middle infielders, and everyone's system is full of guys with a ceiling as a mid-rotation guy.

 

Junior Lake, Giosker Amaya, Oscar Hernandez, Logan Watkins, Javier Baez(although he's supposedly ticketed for 3rd) I think we have enough middle infielders especially since I'm hoping that SS will be held down by Castro for many, many years.

 

Most of those guys are going to be in the low levels (and I'm assuming you mean Marco). The upper levels aren't going to be a pretty picture, and Baez/Lake/Amaya may all be best served moving to the hot corner. Watkins may be more of a utility guy, if he makes it up, but there's a chance at 2nd. Got to see if his 2nd half offensive surge showed any real improvements.

 

My main point is that there seem to be areas in which our system is heavy, center field being one of them. I'm not even saying thats a bad thing just that we don't need to add another one as one of the key pieces to a Garza trade. We could definitely use some corner outfield bats though. Young Reggie Golden is that closest thing we currently have to one and much like our entire organization, he's got quite a ways to go.

[davell]

Not sure where to put this, but now would be the perfect time to see some of these "parallel fronts" Theo is talking about. Kuroda, Oswalt, and Jackson are the last 3 solid pitchers on the market. Meaning they are options for the teams still in need of SP. Now, Garza is certainly a better option than they are, but they just cost money. So, I wonder if signing Kuroda is a serious option for us? My honest guess is Oswalt's going to want to play for a winner. Jackson's going to be a 3 or 4 year commitment. So, Kuroda may be our best shot. Getting these guys off the market only helps Garza's value.

[toonsterwu]

All things being equal, sure it'd be better to address the corner roles and add needed power bats. If the talent level is close, that is preferable. I'm just saying that, I think in a trade like Garza's, you go for the best talent possible and sort things out later.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

If we needed some upper-level middle infield prospect, I heard a couple of them went in the Rule V.

[toonsterwu]

Not sure where to put this, but now would be the perfect time to see some of these "parallel fronts" Theo is talking about. Kuroda, Oswalt, and Jackson are the last 3 solid pitchers on the market. Meaning they are options for the teams still in need of SP. Now, Garza is certainly a better option than they are, but they just cost money. So, I wonder if signing Kuroda is a serious option for us? My honest guess is Oswalt's going to want to play for a winner. Jackson's going to be a 3 or 4 year commitment. So, Kuroda may be our best shot. Getting these guys off the market only helps Garza's value.

 

My guess is that the Red Sox will jump on one of Kuroda or Oswalt in the coming days. Maybe the Yankees get involved there with one of them. Of course, that could damage the Garza market.

 

Haven't heard squat about Edwin Jackson this off-season, which is mildly surprising. Didn't love him, but he's an intriguing asset in his prime years.