Re: What would you deal Garza for?

[RynoRules]

Could the Phils be a fit? Oswalt off the books, they value pitching, prob want to get younger, etc. If we got Dominic Brown and Jonathon Pettibone in return I wouldn't complain.

[Post Count Padder]

Could the Phils be a fit? Oswalt off the books, they value pitching, prob want to get younger, etc. If we got Dominic Brown and Jonathon Pettibone in return I wouldn't complain.

Meh. I really don't know what they have left in their system and have emptied most of it out. I'm sure we could get a way better package from the Yanks, Jays or Tigers.

[treebird]

Hendry's offseason would have been this: Sign Pujols for 10/275. Extend Aramis 3/39. Give Dempster 2 more years at 12 per. Trade everything in our system for Gio. Add a couple of high risk relievers. Unload Z for nothing and pay 75% of his deal.

 

in fairness to hendry, it's hard to suggest he ever got a chance like epstein has here. who knows what he would have done if he'd been told he had five years to build a team from nothing (eat donuts and draft poorly, I suppose, but we're talking about offseason acquisitions). it's true that hendry was constantly trying to patch together a winner, but it also seems like those were the working orders (and, given the status of the team, the right move in a lot of those years).

[Backtobanks]

Hendry's offseason would have been this: Sign Pujols for 10/275. Extend Aramis 3/39. Give Dempster 2 more years at 12 per. Trade everything in our system for Gio. Add a couple of high risk relievers. Unload Z for nothing and pay 75% of his deal.

 

in fairness to hendry, it's hard to suggest he ever got a chance like epstein has here. who knows what he would have done if he'd been told he had five years to build a team from nothing (eat donuts and draft poorly, I suppose, but we're talking about offseason acquisitions). it's true that hendry was constantly trying to patch together a winner, but it also seems like those were the working orders (and, given the status of the team, the right move in a lot of those years).

 

Hey, the rules are that you're not supposed to say anything good about Hendry even though it might be true.

[davell]

We will never know what went on with Hendry and Ricketts when he first bought the team. To me, if Hendry had went up to Ricketts and said that the way they had approached things were wrong and he thought they'd be better off starting over from scratch, it probably would have been his only chance at saving his job. Why I don't think he ever woulld have started over was he wasn't very good at selling off. Other than getting a good haul for DeRosa. He also had one of the smallest front offices in baseball and Ricketts had to appoint a guy to be their statistical analysis guy. It also appeared as if Hendry had told Ricketts they should spend more money in the draft, not because it was a necessary thing to do always, but because this was going to be the last time they could. In the end, I just don't think Hendry would have ever tried a completely different approach than what he was already doing.

[CP_414]

Yeah, those guy are a ways a way, but all 3 have top 10 prospect potential. With them being as loaed as they are, the hope is they'd be more ready to go for it now, in this case. Marisnick is probably top 50ish right now, but I don't know that either of the other 2 will be top 100 at this exact moment. If they are, it'd be pretty low. Levine hinted at a McGuire/Marisnick/Nicolino package last week and unless Montero and one of the Yankee guys are packaged together, I really think Toronto matches up best with us. But, I'd love Syndergaard instead of McGuire, even if it close to certain McGuire is a 3 as soon as 2013.

 

What are your thoughts on Drew Hutchinson? His 2011 numbers (like all Blue Jays prospects) are fantastic, but his stuff doesn't seem as highly rated as Syndergaard's. My first thought looking at it is I would prefer Syndergaard of their right handed pitching prospects, but I might have Hutchinson over McGuire.

[CP_414]

Jim Bowden just tweeted the Cubs and Jays are still talking Garza.

 

Jon Heyman said the Cubs are focusing on pitching in return for Garza, and a rival exec mentioned the Jays and Yankees as good fits.

 

If it's the Yankees, I'd have to think it would have to be both Banuelos and Betences to match up with some of the guys the Jays could offer.

[Guest]

I don't need to have seen more from Hendry to know that he brushed off advanced numbers like they were some sort of newfangled fad that was sure to pass. That alone is enough that I don't care that he may not have been given a fully fair shake in his 9 or 10 years on the job.

 

The front office was stuck in the dark ages. I didn't like who was running our team even while we were winning 97 games and making back to back playoff appearances. I just sort of lived with it and accepted it.

[ctcf]

Brett Taylor @BleacherNation

Hearing, as I guessed, the Blue Jays are now amping up their pursuit of Garza. They have the pieces to put together significant package.

[Guest]

I'd still rather have a Yankees package. I'm sure it'll be a good deal if it gets done, though.

[Rob]

I alternate almost daily on whether I love or hate Gose. Anybody care to share their opinion?

[davell]

Yeah, those guy are a ways a way, but all 3 have top 10 prospect potential. With them being as loaed as they are, the hope is they'd be more ready to go for it now, in this case. Marisnick is probably top 50ish right now, but I don't know that either of the other 2 will be top 100 at this exact moment. If they are, it'd be pretty low. Levine hinted at a McGuire/Marisnick/Nicolino package last week and unless Montero and one of the Yankee guys are packaged together, I really think Toronto matches up best with us. But, I'd love Syndergaard instead of McGuire, even if it close to certain McGuire is a 3 as soon as 2013.

 

What are your thoughts on Drew Hutchinson? His 2011 numbers (like all Blue Jays prospects) are fantastic, but his stuff doesn't seem as highly rated as Syndergaard's. My first thought looking at it is I would prefer Syndergaard of their right handed pitching prospects, but I might have Hutchinson over McGuire.

I think I'd take Hutchison over McGuire as well, but I don't think we could get all 3 of him, Syndergaard, and Nicolino. In fact, we very likely won't get but one of them. Considering how poorly our minors look, as far as LHP goes, I think Nicolino is the best bet. If I were Toronto, I'd certainly think Syndergaard and Nicolino could both come back to really make me regret dealing them. Syndergaard slightly more than Nicolino even. The original package Levine floated was McGuire/Marisnick/Nicolino. Which I still think would be excellent. I think Hutchison has 2 potential, innings eater body too, so I'd like him more than McGuire. But, there's nothing wrong with getting a guy who's almost a sure thing to be a 3, which McGuire is. My perfect package would be Marisnick/Syndergaard/Nicolino, but I really think that's asking too much from them. Not to mention, I also think Theo probably wants to add something a little closer to the majors. Which would be McGuire or even Drabek.

[davell]

I alternate almost daily on whether I love or hate Gose. Anybody care to share their opinion?

Boom or bust obviously. I think the K rate is really worrisome, but I'm a hypocrite because I don't think the same about Brett. Maybe it's the plate discipline. The speed/power combo is intriguing for sure, but if I'm the Cubs and they're willing to deal a guy like that, it'd make me wonder what they know that I don't. For that reason alone, I'd take Marisnick.

[TruffleShuffle]

it's not really just plate discipline with gose, because he did walk 65 times in 137 games. maybe he's too patient? swinging at the wrong pitches? i haven't seen him play so i don't know what the problem is, but it's not like he's putting up reggie abercrombie K/BB ratios.

[KingCubsFan]

I alternate almost daily on whether I love or hate Gose. Anybody care to share their opinion?

The K's have gone up, but so have the walks and the power. I think he's a bit too risky to be the centerpiece of a deal for Garza.

[JeffH]

From the Jays, I wonder if Theo and Jed would prefer three starting pitchers or two starting pitchers and an outfielder.

[davell]

From the Jays, I wonder if Theo and Jed would prefer three starting pitchers or two starting pitchers and an outfielder.

I wonder that too. My guess says it's up to San Diego, with Rizzo involved.

[82TonyM]

Yeah, those guy are a ways a way, but all 3 have top 10 prospect potential. With them being as loaed as they are, the hope is they'd be more ready to go for it now, in this case. Marisnick is probably top 50ish right now, but I don't know that either of the other 2 will be top 100 at this exact moment. If they are, it'd be pretty low. Levine hinted at a McGuire/Marisnick/Nicolino package last week and unless Montero and one of the Yankee guys are packaged together, I really think Toronto matches up best with us. But, I'd love Syndergaard instead of McGuire, even if it close to certain McGuire is a 3 as soon as 2013.

 

What are your thoughts on Drew Hutchinson? His 2011 numbers (like all Blue Jays prospects) are fantastic, but his stuff doesn't seem as highly rated as Syndergaard's. My first thought looking at it is I would prefer Syndergaard of their right handed pitching prospects, but I might have Hutchinson over McGuire.

I think I'd take Hutchison over McGuire as well, but I don't think we could get all 3 of him, Syndergaard, and Nicolino. In fact, we very likely won't get but one of them. Considering how poorly our minors look, as far as LHP goes, I think Nicolino is the best bet. If I were Toronto, I'd certainly think Syndergaard and Nicolino could both come back to really make me regret dealing them. Syndergaard slightly more than Nicolino even. The original package Levine floated was McGuire/Marisnick/Nicolino. Which I still think would be excellent. I think Hutchison has 2 potential, innings eater body too, so I'd like him more than McGuire. But, there's nothing wrong with getting a guy who's almost a sure thing to be a 3, which McGuire is. My perfect package would be Marisnick/Syndergaard/Nicolino, but I really think that's asking too much from them. Not to mention, I also think Theo probably wants to add something a little closer to the majors. Which would be McGuire or even Drabek.

 

Davell, how would this package compare to the one we gave up for Garza? Thanks.

Edited December 29, 2011 by 82TonyM

[JeffH]

davell, would you trade Garza to the Jays for Henderson Alvarez, Deck McGuire, and one of Justin Nicolino/Drew Hutchison/Noah Syndergaard?

[davell]

davell, would you trade Garza to the Jays for Henderson Alvarez, Deck McGuire, and one of Justin Nicolino/Drew Hutchison/Noah Syndergaard?

Yeah, I would. I don't think anyone else is going to match that. McGuire is probably ready midseason to be a longterm 3. Syndergaard and Nicolino have ace potential, although a long way away. Hutchison has 2 potential. And Alvarez is 21 with success in the bigs already. Law ranked him 39th in his midseason prospect report last year. Kind of came out of nowhere. If his K rate goes up some, he may have TOR potential as well. But, he's a groundball guy and he throws low 90's, touching 95 on occasion, so maybe he just isn't trying to K guys.

[davell]

Yeah, those guy are a ways a way, but all 3 have top 10 prospect potential. With them being as loaed as they are, the hope is they'd be more ready to go for it now, in this case. Marisnick is probably top 50ish right now, but I don't know that either of the other 2 will be top 100 at this exact moment. If they are, it'd be pretty low. Levine hinted at a McGuire/Marisnick/Nicolino package last week and unless Montero and one of the Yankee guys are packaged together, I really think Toronto matches up best with us. But, I'd love Syndergaard instead of McGuire, even if it close to certain McGuire is a 3 as soon as 2013.

 

What are your thoughts on Drew Hutchinson? His 2011 numbers (like all Blue Jays prospects) are fantastic, but his stuff doesn't seem as highly rated as Syndergaard's. My first thought looking at it is I would prefer Syndergaard of their right handed pitching prospects, but I might have Hutchinson over McGuire.

I think I'd take Hutchison over McGuire as well, but I don't think we could get all 3 of him, Syndergaard, and Nicolino. In fact, we very likely won't get but one of them. Considering how poorly our minors look, as far as LHP goes, I think Nicolino is the best bet. If I were Toronto, I'd certainly think Syndergaard and Nicolino could both come back to really make me regret dealing them. Syndergaard slightly more than Nicolino even. The original package Levine floated was McGuire/Marisnick/Nicolino. Which I still think would be excellent. I think Hutchison has 2 potential, innings eater body too, so I'd like him more than McGuire. But, there's nothing wrong with getting a guy who's almost a sure thing to be a 3, which McGuire is. My perfect package would be Marisnick/Syndergaard/Nicolino, but I really think that's asking too much from them. Not to mention, I also think Theo probably wants to add something a little closer to the majors. Which would be McGuire or even Drabek.

 

Davell, how would this package compare to the one we gave up for Garza? Thanks.

I think I'd look at it like this: Guyer is a potential 4th OFer. Chirinos is a future backup C and Fuld is a 25th man, who probably had his career year last season. So, to me, all we gave up was Lee and Archer. Archer was ranked upper 30's. Lower 40's rankings wise. Lee was borderline top 100. Archer has TOR stuff, with command issues and is possibly a back end of the pen guy, if those issues don't get worked out. Lee is a potential top of the order hitting, very fast, solid OBP with 10ish homer pop, gold glove potential SS. To me, he was the prize, as there are a lot more Archer's around than Lee's. Levine's rumored package of McGuire/Marisnick/Nicolino? McGuire is close to ready and is not going to be a star, but a solid 3. Probably a workhorse type. Marisnick is very athletic, very large, solid plate approach, potential .300ish hitter who goes 20/20. A couple of years away though, since he played A ball this past one. Nicolino is wire thin, tons of projection, great offspeed stuff and excellent control. Will probably start season in A or A+ ball. Also couple of years away. My guess is by rankings, McGuire is somewhere around 90ish, Marisnick is top 50 and Nicolino may or may not show up in the 75 to 100 range, but likely to be top 50 and possibly much higher than that by this time next year. I like a package like that quite a bit more than what we gave up for him.

[JeffH]

From Toronto, if we can get one of the big league ready arms (Alvarez/McGuire), one of the outfielders (Gose/Marisnick), and one of the high ceiling arms (Nicolino/Hutchison/Syndergaard), that deal needs to be done immediately.

 

Unfortunately, I doubt we get that much.

[98navigator]

Random Twitter rumors have something happening sooner rather than later:

@MLBInsideNews:#Cubs source tells me that he thinks a trade of Garza will happen within 24 hours. "Definitely gaining momentum" he said.

 

@cubs1611: Bruce Levine: #BlueJays package for Matt Garza : Kyle Drabek, Anthony Gose, Jake Marisnick & Deck McGwire. #Jays.

 

Apparently, the players rumored to be involved are from Bruce Levine's chat:

 

...if you identify top pitchers like Kyle Drabek and Deck McGwire then you have to listen. They might be the aces fo your staff for the next 6-7 years. That's what the Cubs are doing right now.

 

They are looking at Jake Marisnick, a power-hitting outfielder who also runs well even though he is 6-4. The other guy would be Anthony Gose, a true center fielder. These are the type of guys who would have to come back in a deal for Garza.

 

The idea that those players are an actual "package" for Garza is probably a stretch but one can dream...

[StarlinOnYou]

Toronto's package of prospects intrigue me the most.

 

I love Garza, but really can't wait to trade him to stock up the farm system.

[Little Slide Rooter]

I know Drabek has lost much of his luster as a prospect but I want him. I'd also love to see if there was a way to work Travis Snider into he deal along with some young guys if we add another piece or two.

 

I'm not really sure how this stuff works because in all of my years as a Cubs fan I can't remember the last time we were on this side of a deal like this. As much as Id like to keep Garza I'm loving te situation.