Re: What would you deal Garza for?

[Guest]

You only trade garza if you want to give up on 2012. I don't want to give up. Therefore, I don't trade garza

 

I'm sorry I just really don't get how there's that much to give up on.

 

What the hell?

 

A post from early November?

[davell]

I hope that Garza's moved in the next couple of days personally. Kuroda, Oswalt, and Jackson are all FA and cost nothing more than money. If the asking price is too high, these teams could easily just go buy a guy. Garza is damn good, but I hate to say it, I don't think I'd give up a TON for him, with those guys all available for cash. Granted, you've got him for 2 years and it's certainly possible he could extended to where he's around for his entire prime at a cost effective rate. I think Theo's played this perfectly. He's the best guy currently out there and he's got 3 AL East teams all bidding on a guy with a proven track record in the same division. We may wind up with a much better haul than what we gave up for him. I guess we'll see what happens, but if some of these teams start signing Kuroda and Oswalt, our bargaining position starts to go down. So I want him moved as quick as possible at this stage.

[Conky]

I hope that Garza's moved in the next couple of days personally. Kuroda, Oswalt, and Jackson are all FA and cost nothing more than money. If the asking price is too high, these teams could easily just go buy a guy. Garza is damn good, but I hate to say it, I don't think I'd give up a TON for him, with those guys all available for cash. Granted, you've got him for 2 years and it's certainly possible he could extended to where he's around for his entire prime at a cost effective rate. I think Theo's played this perfectly. He's the best guy currently out there and he's got 3 AL East teams all bidding on a guy with a proven track record in the same division. We may wind up with a much better haul than what we gave up for him. I guess we'll see what happens, but if some of these teams start signing Kuroda and Oswalt, our bargaining position starts to go down. So I want him moved as quick as possible at this stage.

 

Disagree. Garza is head and shoulders better than Oswalt/ Kuroda. Best option available by far imho. Time to make someone pay.

[davell]

I think he's better and he's actually cheaper too. But I'd have a hard time parting with what it's going to take to get him, especially since it's not going to be as easy to overspend and replenish your system as before. Is he worth giving up 2 or 3 future starters for, when you can go sign a guy who's probably a legit 3 anyway? I don't know, but I sure as hell hope another team does, and the quicker the better.

[Elrhino]

Garza is far away superior to anything else on the market, especially where Toronto and the Yankees are concerned. Garza is a proven TOR pitcher in the AL East. You don't have to project his performance from lesser competition. Those guys rarely become available, much less available with 2 years left before they hit the market.

[Little Slide Rooter]

The Blue Jays and Yankees seem far more appealing than the Red Sox. However, if we did move Garza to the Jays or Yanks, I wonder of the Red Sox would be willing to move Lars Anderson for Ryan Dempster, or even Big Z assuming we picked up the lions share of his contract. I know Anderson has long since lost his luster, but with A Gon, they don't have much use for him anymore and he can joing the long list of 1st base options if Fielder isn't to be, because if we don't get Fielder, we should really start auditioning options asap and Anderson could Rizzo, Barton, Morales, and LaPorta as some guys worth taking fliers out on. It's not like we have any internal options. There's 17 year old Vogelsbach, and beyond him theres Rebel Ridling, Justin Bour, and Richard Jones who are the Jake LaHoffpauirs of the various levels.

[Guest]

Brett with the update...

 

For my part, I was up late last night pulling info. Two sources independently told me that, as of late last night, the Cubs were pushing teams to start putting together their best offer for Garza. Both sources indicated the teams most heavily involved as of that time were the Blue Jays, Tigers and Yankees (those are not necessarily the only teams still involved – teams seem to come in and out of the picture – but they are the teams most heavily involved at last check).

 

Does that mean a trade will happen today or even at all? Nah. Of course not. It means, at most, that the Cubs are coming to a crossroads where they’d like to move the offseason ball forward. Either Garza will or will not open the season with the Cubs, and the organization would probably like to know which direction they’ll be going sooner rather than later. In other words, asking teams to make their best offer is not necessarily a precursor to selecting the best offer.

But, like, yeah: a lot of smoke.

 

http://www.bleachernation.com/2011/12/29/is-matt-garza-going-to-be-traded-today/

[Magnetic Curses]

The Blue Jays and Yankees seem far more appealing than the Red Sox. However, if we did move Garza to the Jays or Yanks, I wonder of the Red Sox would be willing to move Lars Anderson for Ryan Dempster, or even Big Z assuming we picked up the lions share of his contract. I know Anderson has long since lost his luster, but with A Gon, they don't have much use for him anymore and he can joing the long list of 1st base options if Fielder isn't to be, because if we don't get Fielder, we should really start auditioning options asap and Anderson could Rizzo, Barton, Morales, and LaPorta as some guys worth taking fliers out on. It's not like we have any internal options. There's 17 year old Vogelsbach, and beyond him theres Rebel Ridling, Justin Bour, and Richard Jones who are the Jake LaHoffpauirs of the various levels.

 

nitpicking, but vogelbach is 19

[RynoRules]

Sounds like we should know by today or tomorrow. I'd like them to get this done and focus on moving out some other pieces as the FA market begins to thin out. Also appears the Yanks' package is preferable in terms of talent, but I trust Thoyer to make that call.

[KingCubsFan]

Sounds like we should know by today or tomorrow. I'd like them to get this done and focus on moving out some other pieces as the FA market begins to thin out. Also appears the Yanks' package is preferable in terms of talent, but I trust Thoyer to make that call.

Has there been any indication on the players being offered by the Yankees?

[RynoRules]

Sounds like we should know by today or tomorrow. I'd like them to get this done and focus on moving out some other pieces as the FA market begins to thin out. Also appears the Yanks' package is preferable in terms of talent, but I trust Thoyer to make that call.

Has there been any indication on the players being offered by the Yankees?

 

I don't know whether there's been anything beyond educated speculation, but Montero's name has been floated several times. IMO, that alone makes their package preferable.

[davell]

Sounds like we should know by today or tomorrow. I'd like them to get this done and focus on moving out some other pieces as the FA market begins to thin out. Also appears the Yanks' package is preferable in terms of talent, but I trust Thoyer to make that call.

Has there been any indication on the players being offered by the Yankees?

 

I don't know whether there's been anything beyond educated speculation, but Montero's name has been floated several times. IMO, that alone makes their package preferable.

Montero's name has been floated by us. There's nothing nationally saying Montero is part of the talks.

[Abe Frohman]

Judging by the package the Cubs got for Sean Marshall, these teams are going to have to offer some quality talent.

[dew1679666265]

The Blue Jays deals I've seen tossed around are really intriguing, but I'd really, really love to see us get Montero. I think I'd be happy with a slightly lesser package from the Yankees if it included Montero. This organization needs impact bats more than it needs impact pitching, I think, and Montero fits that bill well.

 

Montero + pitching would be pretty much a dream deal for me.

Edited December 29, 2011 by dew

[jersey cubs fan]

The Blue Jays packages I've seen tossed around are really intriguing,

 

To each his own.

[dew1679666265]

The Blue Jays packages I've seen tossed around are really intriguing,

 

To each his own.

 

You don't like the packages?

[jersey cubs fan]

I haven't seen any of the Blue Jays packages.

[davell]

The Blue Jays packages I've seen tossed around are really intriguing, but I'd really, really love to see us get Montero. I think I'd be happy with a slightly lesser package from the Yankees if it included Montero. This organization needs impact bats more than it needs impact pitching, I think, and Montero fits that bill well.

 

Montero + pitching would be pretty much a dream deal for me.

I think we need pitching far more than hitting myself. We have Brett, Szczur, and Baez as possible impact guys, with only McNutt there on the pitching side. Even the majority of the high upside guys at the lower levels are hitters. Plus, Soler is out there for us to just buy. And he's a top 20 prospect by most accounts. Sign him, trade Garza for a pitching heavy package and it kind of evens things out, plus puts our system in a much, much better light.

[dew1679666265]

I haven't seen any of the Blue Jays packages.

 

I see what you did there. I edited it to clear up your confusion.

[dew1679666265]

I think we need pitching far more than hitting myself. We have Brett, Szczur, and Baez as possible impact guys, with only McNutt there on the pitching side. Even the majority of the high upside guys at the lower levels are hitters. Plus, Soler is out there for us to just buy. And he's a top 20 prospect by most accounts. Sign him, trade Garza for a pitching heavy package and it kind of evens things out, plus puts our system in a much, much better light.

 

What do you think of Whitenack? There's a lot of question there, but he was really picking it up before he got hurt. There's not much in the way of impact in the top levels on either side, but I've gotten the feeling that most of our potential elite guys in the lower levels were pitchers - Wells and Maples in particular.

 

I also think we have more pitching depth than we do offensive depth and free agency (if we get involved in that) is much more pitching heavy than offense heavy and I wouldn't oppose adding one of the FA starters next offseason. Like I said, though, I would be pretty happy with pretty much any of the Toronto deals rumored, I simply would prefer getting an elite bat like Montero along with the pitching instead of just high end pitching if I had the choice.

[KingCubsFan]

I think we need pitching far more than hitting myself. We have Brett, Szczur, and Baez as possible impact guys, with only McNutt there on the pitching side. Even the majority of the high upside guys at the lower levels are hitters. Plus, Soler is out there for us to just buy. And he's a top 20 prospect by most accounts. Sign him, trade Garza for a pitching heavy package and it kind of evens things out, plus puts our system in a much, much better light.

 

What do you think of Whitenack? There's a lot of question there, but he was really picking it up before he got hurt. There's not much in the way of impact in the top levels on either side, but I've gotten the feeling that most of our potential elite guys in the lower levels were pitchers - Wells and Maples in particular.

 

I also think we have more pitching depth than we do offensive depth and free agency (if we get involved in that) is much more pitching heavy than offense heavy and I wouldn't oppose adding one of the FA starters next offseason. Like I said, though, I would be pretty happy with pretty much any of the Toronto deals rumored, I simply would prefer getting an elite bat like Montero along with the pitching instead of just high end pitching if I had the choice.

We don't really have impact talent on either side, and could use both hitters and pitchers. But I'd prefer a trade involving Montero over others simply because he's probably the surest bet out of all the prospects mentioned. All of the other guys (particularly the Blue Jays prospects) either have question marks or are still far away. Turner is probably the only other guy close to Montero.

[davell]

With TJS, Whitenack MAY get back on a mound towards the end of 2012, as far as pitching in games go. Then, 2013 could be watching him get back to where he was at. It's a shame he was hurt during his breakout year, but there's no guarantee he ever regains his status either. And even then, most analysts were pegging him as a future 3, at best. Wells and Maples are our 2 best arms deep down in the system, Wells looks like a future innings eater, sinkerballer. Most say he has 3 upside as well, but I certainly can see an argument to where he can be more. Maples? Who knows? If his change develops and his command comes around, it's conceivably he's a possible ace, I guess. But he's a project that's going to take a lot of time and he could flame out in High A Ball. Hitting though, you've got Vogelbach, Golden, Candelario, Hernandez, Amaya, Dunston Jr, and even our 3 big bonus Latin American signees were all hitters. I just feel like we're in much better shape there than we'll be in pitching, especially in the next couple of years when some of these guys develop.

[Little Slide Rooter]

The question is what is need and what is want? If we're going to do this, we should push for a potential imopact arm and a bat and another piece or 2. There's no urgency on our end. We should just get as many good prospects as we can. Remember, a complete rebuild for us isn't like the A's and Pirates where they trade what few valuable players they have for the best prospects they can because they know that in a year or two they wont be able to afford to keep them anyway and plan on building their future primarily around those prospects and if they dont pan out, back to the drawing board. We have a lot more flexibility than they do, so we can trade our assetts for the best prospects we can get, and if we're not offered what we wan't, we keep our guy. If we do get the prospects we want, then we use them to build with in addition to some top free agents over the next few years.

[dew1679666265]

With TJS, Whitenack MAY get back on a mound towards the end of 2012, as far as pitching in games go. Then, 2013 could be watching him get back to where he was at. It's a shame he was hurt during his breakout year, but there's no guarantee he ever regains his status either. And even then, most analysts were pegging him as a future 3, at best.

 

I thought he had the surgery fairly early in the year. Wouldn't that get him back by mid 2012? Or am I thinking wrong on recovery time for TJS? I was also thinking the breakout year might have boosted his stock up to a future #2 type, but maybe not.

 

Wells and Maples are our 2 best arms deep down in the system, Wells looks like a future innings eater, sinkerballer. Most say he has 3 upside as well, but I certainly can see an argument to where he can be more. Maples? Who knows? If his change develops and his command comes around, it's conceivably he's a possible ace, I guess. But he's a project that's going to take a lot of time and he could flame out in High A Ball.

 

The bolded is true for almost all of our impact hitters as well, though. I was thinking some on here thought of Wells as a potential TOR guy, but maybe not.

 

Hitting though, you've got Vogelbach, Golden, Candelario, Hernandez, Amaya, Dunston Jr, and even our 3 big bonus Latin American signees were all hitters. I just feel like we're in much better shape there than we'll be in pitching, especially in the next couple of years when some of these guys develop.

 

Depends on what you see the ceiling on some of those guys as. Much as I like Candelerio, Hernandez, and Amaya I just don't know what to expect out of them. I really like Vogelbach, Golden, and Dunston, though. Maybe I was just putting extra emphasis on the offensive prospect since Montero can play first and there's such a lack of real first base talent available.

[davell]

I hate to even bring this up, but my honest guess at how our 1B issue plays out this year is this: We trade Cashner to San Diego for Rizzo. We put him in Iowa for half the year and give LaHair the job for half a season to try and build some trade value in him.