Granderson to Yankees in 3-way trade? p. 20

[dew1679666265]

I don't think you can make this sort of blanket statement. If a guy stopped swinging for the fences with two strikes, you might actually see his LD% rise, as his FB% declines.

 

Is the player striking out because he's swinging for the fences with two strikes, or is it because he's being patient and not swinging at pitchers' pitches and, thus, striking out on some of them?

[davell]

Wow, i've been checking some Detroit baseball forums and wow talk about overvaluing Granderson. Saw someone say it would take Vitters, Castro, Cashner, Marmol and Jackson to get Granderson. I mean wow, really? I think some fans overvalue their player a little too much. If the Cubs decided to trade Derek Lee to the Giants, i wouldn't ask the Giants for Posey. And you can argue that DLee has more value than Granderson.

 

On the subject of Granderson, i think it would be a nice pickup if they landed him but if i woke up tomorrow and heard the Yankees got him, i'd be like, ehh ok. With Peavy i was a little dissapointed the cubs didnt get him but with Granderson, it doesn't really matter, they either do or dont. Granderson isn't exactly a superstar.

 

 

Yeah, I'm in the same boat. I'd like to get him for sure. And I think he's an extremely valuable player, but if someone else got him, I'd be OK with it too. Hearing what some of the packages detroit thinks he's worth is laughable.

[SouthSideRyan]

Derrek Lee isn't worth as much as Granderson.

[Tarver]

Wow, i've been checking some Detroit baseball forums and wow talk about overvaluing Granderson. Saw someone say it would take Vitters, Castro, Cashner, Marmol and Jackson to get Granderson. I mean wow, really? I think some fans overvalue their player a little too much. If the Cubs decided to trade Derek Lee to the Giants, i wouldn't ask the Giants for Posey. And you can argue that DLee has more value than Granderson.

 

On the subject of Granderson, i think it would be a nice pickup if they landed him but if i woke up tomorrow and heard the Yankees got him, i'd be like, ehh ok. With Peavy i was a little dissapointed the cubs didnt get him but with Granderson, it doesn't really matter, they either do or dont. Granderson isn't exactly a superstar.

 

He may not be a "superstar", but he's a hell of a lot more valuable than Lee.

[Sever82]

Derrek Lee isn't worth as much as Granderson.

 

Please Explain.... Other than Age, what does Granderson have over Lee? Lee is a better run producer and has a better glove at his position and is a better hitter. Granderson has good speed but he's not a base stealer and he's not exactly an impressive lead off hitter with those numbers. Lee also isn't a platoon player at his position.

[Tarver]

Because Granderson provides excellent production at a defense-first position. 1B's are much, much easier to come by.

[SouthSideRyan]

Derrek Lee isn't worth as much as Granderson.

 

Please Explain.... Other than Age, what does Granderson have over Lee? Lee is a better run producer and has a better glove at his position and is a better hitter. Granderson has good speed but he's not a base stealer and he's not exactly an impressive lead off hitter with those numbers. Lee also isn't a platoon player at his position.

 

 

Age, Contract, Defense(Even if Lee is a better defender than Granderson, debatable at best; a good defensive CF is worth a hell of a lot more than a great defensive 1B), baserunning

[davell]

Derrek Lee isn't worth as much as Granderson.

 

Please Explain.... Other than Age, what does Granderson have over Lee? Lee is a better run producer and has a better glove at his position and is a better hitter. Granderson has good speed but he's not a base stealer and he's not exactly an impressive lead off hitter with those numbers. Lee also isn't a platoon player at his position.

 

 

I'll give this one a shot and see if it's the same answer SSR eventually says. The first thing is he's a decent amount younger and just entering his prime, while Lee(who obviously had a great year this past one) is (supposed to be anyway) past his prime. Secondly, Granderson is a "bargain" as far as money goes, as he has 3 years left on his current deal at a very decent rate. While Lee only has one year left and it's at 13 mill(not bad, but not a bargain either). Thirdly, Granderson plays a premium position where it's much harder to find his skillset than what Lee does. That's my reasoning anyway.....

 

Oops, he beat me to it, but much of the reasoning is the same anyway. :D

[Sever82]

Because Granderson provides excellent production at a defense-first position. 1B's are much, much easier to come by.

 

I agree on that part but i think it would also depend on which team is trying to pick him up. For example, if the Yanks didnt have Texeira on their current roster, i think they would value Lee more than Granderson. I agree with 1Bs are easy to come by but Granderson isn't exactly a gold glove CF, and as for baserunning, although he has excellent speed, he's not a difference maker like Crawford for example so i wouldn't say his baserunning puts him way over the top. If his splits weren't that bad, obviously i'd take him over Lee but because of his splits i'd take my chances with Lee because with Granderson, if he came on with two outs and the winning run on second, the opposing manager can just bring in a Lefty and call it a day.

[RedFlash]

Wow, i've been checking some Detroit baseball forums and wow talk about overvaluing Granderson. Saw someone say it would take Vitters, Castro, Cashner, Marmol and Jackson to get Granderson. I mean wow, really? I think some fans overvalue their player a little too much. If the Cubs decided to trade Derek Lee to the Giants, i wouldn't ask the Giants for Posey. And you can argue that DLee has more value than Granderson.

 

On a Tigers MB there was a Tiger fan who was adament that Cubs fans were "clueless" and that to land Curtis Granderson it would have to include Castro and Vitters without a blink of the eye. I was LOL at how clueless this poster was.

[Shilzzz]

While people are throwing out RTRs, I'll throw one out:

 

Lee + prospects for Granderson and Miggy.

[Tryptamine]

While people are throwing out RTRs, I'll throw one out:

 

Lee + prospects for Granderson and Miggy.

 

I can top that with a little nugget I found over on a Tiger's board.

 

Talking about Edwin Jackson:

 

"Regarding Jackson, although he's no Roy Halladay, you have to remember the team that would get him would control him for at least the next two seasons. Although Jackson is not left-handed, the Tigers should at least expect to get what the Orioles got for Erik Bedard (which included Adam Jones, George Sherill and Chris Tillman). Their histories (great, inconsistent stuff) and contract situations are similar, although Jackson doesn't have the injury history of Bedard"

 

Talking about Josh Vitters

 

"This guy is the Cubs version of Gordon Beckham. I'm liking doing a deal with Cubs more and more. Especially if you consider that Hendry is going to offer up 5 of the Cubs top 10 prospects."

[17 Seconds]

somebody needs to tell that guy that bill bavasi isn't a gm anymore

[CUBZ99]

While people are throwing out RTRs, I'll throw one out:

 

Lee + prospects for Granderson and Miggy.

 

I can top that with a little nugget I found over on a Tiger's board.

 

Talking about Edwin Jackson:

 

"Regarding Jackson, although he's no Roy Halladay, you have to remember the team that would get him would control him for at least the next two seasons. Although Jackson is not left-handed, the Tigers should at least expect to get what the Orioles got for Erik Bedard (which included Adam Jones, George Sherill and Chris Tillman). Their histories (great, inconsistent stuff) and contract situations are similar, although Jackson doesn't have the injury history of Bedard"

 

Talking about Josh Vitters

 

"This guy is the Cubs version of Gordon Beckham. I'm liking doing a deal with Cubs more and more. Especially if you consider that Hendry is going to offer up 5 of the Cubs top 10 prospects."

 

I want some of the stuff that they are taking.

[Rob]

General consensus on the Tigers boards is that they wont even look at a package without Castro, then probably Vitters and Jackson too, if not more.

[XZero771679666304]

General consensus on the Tigers boards is that they wont even look at a package without Castro, then probably Vitters and Jackson too, if not more.

 

If fans were making all the trade demands, nothing would ever get done.

[Rob]

Very true.

 

But it's nice to have an idea of what they think it'll cost. Compare that to what we think it should cost, and then try to come up in the middle.

 

I think it's time to consider that we may not get a deal done without including Castro.

[XZero771679666304]

Very true.

 

But it's nice to have an idea of what they think it'll cost. Compare that to what we think it should cost, and then try to come up in the middle.

 

I think it's time to consider that we may not get a deal done without including Castro.

 

I could part with Castro, since we have Hak-Ju Lee in the system. I wouldn't like it, but I'd do it.

[SABR Gamer]

Very true.

 

But it's nice to have an idea of what they think it'll cost. Compare that to what we think it should cost, and then try to come up in the middle.

 

I think it's time to consider that we may not get a deal done without including Castro.

 

Forget it then, they can keep Granderson. I don't want to trade Castro or Vitters unless we are getting a Hanley or Ryan Braun type player. I'd rather have Sam Fuld play CF next year than trade away any of our top 4 (Castro, Vitters, Cashner, B Jackson), and I'd like to not trade J Jackson, or Lee either, but for Granderson I would if the deal was right.

[Rob]

I wouldn't part with Castro. I don't think the Cubs front office would either.

[XZero771679666304]

I wouldn't part with Castro. I don't think the Cubs front office would either.

 

That's what my gut tells me. But otoh, there's no guarantee Castro becomes what we think he will become. Granderson is an established commodity, a good bat at a defense first position, which also happens to be a position of relative need. I would go for the bird in hand, but it could be all those years of our top prospects tanking.

 

If I did cough him up, they wouldn't get much more. Maybe Castro/Fox/Marshall.

[17 Seconds]

what is Castro's ceiling supposed to be?

[Rob]

Derek Jeter with less walks but more defense.

[RedFlash]

I wouldn't part with Castro. I don't think the Cubs front office would either.

 

That's what my gut tells me. But otoh, there's no guarantee Castro becomes what we think he will become. Granderson is an established commodity, a good bat at a defense first position, which also happens to be a position of relative need. I would go for the bird in hand, but it could be all those years of our top prospects tanking.

 

If I did cough him up, they wouldn't get much more. Maybe Castro/Fox/Marshall.

 

Everything you said could be true, and I believe Castro's true value could be in the fact he will be a cheap productive SS for the next 5 years, whereas Granderson's contract keeps going up till the end. If I knew Granderson could hit lefties (the only reason why the Cubs might part with Castro for Granderson, is if they believe Jaramillo can help Granderson hit lefties at least slightly below average and not Aaron Milesian) then it might be a deal worth it.

 

But right now, I don't know if I would be happy if the Cubs moved Castro in a Granderson deal.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Very true.

 

But it's nice to have an idea of what they think it'll cost. Compare that to what we think it should cost, and then try to come up in the middle.

 

I think it's time to consider that we may not get a deal done without including Castro.

 

Forget it then, they can keep Granderson. I don't want to trade Castro or Vitters unless we are getting a Hanley or Ryan Braun type player. I'd rather have Sam Fuld play CF next year than trade away any of our top 4 (Castro, Vitters, Cashner, B Jackson), and I'd like to not trade J Jackson, or Lee either, but for Granderson I would if the deal was right.

 

Yeah, Id just assume sign a Mike Cameron or hell, even take a gamble on Baldelli or Nady than empty out the farm. Granderson is a very good player, but not the type thats going tp push us over the top.