Granderson to Yankees in 3-way trade? p. 20

[Derwood]

Rotoworld claims that Granderson is "unlikely" to be traded this winter

[Little Slide Rooter]

According to TCR, there was discussion today on ESPN 1000 where it was said that the Tigers are looking for major league ready players as a return for Granderson. No idea, if this is actually true, but lets assume it is for this discussion anyway. They have Gerald Laird at catcher, what if they want Soto as one of the pieces in return? If they want Soto/Marshall/Guzman, is that something we should consider? Or what about Soto/Wells/Guzman? Too much? What do we think Geo is going to do next year? I figure he settles in midway between the two years myself.

 

I dont think we can afford to give up Soto. I agree, that he'll srttle somewhere between '08 and '09, but I dont think we can make do with a Hill/Robinson catching tandem and hope and wait for Castillo or Clevenger to come into their own. I would give up Theriot, however with Castro so close to ready. I would part with Theriot/Wells/Guzman and add someone like Fox as a throw in, and try to get a pitcher for Bradley.

[OleMissCub]

Rotoworld claims that Granderson is "unlikely" to be traded this winter

 

Rotoworld speaks lies with a forked tongue

[Post Count Padder]

Rotoworld claims that Granderson is "unlikely" to be traded this winter

I like Rotoworld and like getting their take on some things, but times like this, their two cents don't matter.

[JonJayCutler]

I assume Granderson is officially this year's Brian Roberts/Jake Peavy. Lets actually complete the trade this time, shall we? I don't know where all this platoon talk is coming from. He can't hit lefties, but his great defense enables him to be an everyday player.

[bubblesdachimp]

So I have thought about this now for about 5 hours at work and here are my thoughts on the issue.

 

1. I am really shocked to see so many people are so down on Marmol. I consider him a crucial part of this team and would not include him as part of a deal unless it was a superduper star.

 

2. I dont consider Granderson to be a superduper star. I consider him to be a very good player. But not one that I would unload the house for.

 

3. That being said I really like his contract and the fact that he mashes Righties.

 

4. I am not happy with his lefty split situation, and I am pretty sure that Keith Laws view that he is a platoon player is correct. OPS around .500 is just not good

 

5. That being said there arent too many lefty starters in the NL central outside of Pittsburgh.

 

6. My offer would be Vitters and a Gaub/Burke/Flaherty type. Or give Ryan Theriot up.

 

7. Giving up Theriot would be excellent since then we wouldnt have him playing SS and we wouldnt just slide him over to Second Base when Castro is ready.My biggest fear)

 

8. I really hope we don't overpay

[Sammy Sofa]

1. I am really shocked to see so many people are so down on Marmol. I consider him a crucial part of this team and would not include him as part of a deal unless it was a superduper star.

 

I think it's less an issue of people being "down" on him and more seeing the reality of the benefits of selling (relatively) high on a reliever.

[Derwood]

Rotoworld claims that Granderson is "unlikely" to be traded this winter

I like Rotoworld and like getting their take on some things, but times like this, their two cents don't matter.

 

According to Steve Kornacki of MLive.com, a Curtis Granderson trade is "unlikely to happen" this winter.

Tigers general manager Dave Dombrowski suggested the same thing Wednesday, yet rumors are still streaming in from all over involving some of the Tigers' bigger stars. "My personal feeling is that Detroit is not going to trade Curtis Granderson," an unnamed American League executive said Friday. "He’s like (Cleveland’s) Grady Sizemore. They don’t come along very often and Detroit is blessed to have him."

[SouthSideRyan]

According to TCR, there was discussion today on ESPN 1000 where it was said that the Tigers are looking for major league ready players as a return for Granderson. No idea, if this is actually true, but lets assume it is for this discussion anyway. They have Gerald Laird at catcher, what if they want Soto as one of the pieces in return? If they want Soto/Marshall/Guzman, is that something we should consider? Or what about Soto/Wells/Guzman? Too much? What do we think Geo is going to do next year? I figure he settles in midway between the two years myself.

 

My God, that's way too much.

[Post Count Padder]

Rotoworld claims that Granderson is "unlikely" to be traded this winter

I like Rotoworld and like getting their take on some things, but times like this, their two cents don't matter.

 

According to Steve Kornacki of MLive.com, a Curtis Granderson trade is "unlikely to happen" this winter.

Tigers general manager Dave Dombrowski suggested the same thing Wednesday, yet rumors are still streaming in from all over involving some of the Tigers' bigger stars. "My personal feeling is that Detroit is not going to trade Curtis Granderson," an unnamed American League executive said Friday. "He’s like (Cleveland’s) Grady Sizemore. They don’t come along very often and Detroit is blessed to have him."

Fair enough.

 

I honestly can't see the Tigers trading him unless they're blown away with a package. And I don't know that our farm system is deep enough yet to make an offer that would blow anyone away without depleting it.

[erik316wttn]

Rotoworld claims that Granderson is "unlikely" to be traded this winter

 

But that won't stop this thread from reaching 100 pages.

[Cubswin11]

Rotoworld claims that Granderson is "unlikely" to be traded this winter

 

But that won't stop this thread from reaching 100 pages.

Is it to early to get a big bird reference in? Or the fact Granderson was heard signing "Go Cubs Go" in a Vegas bar?

[BCVM22]

Never too early.

[FatRalph]

If you have to deal prospects away then do it. Castro, Vitters Cashner. Doesn't matter to me if we had to trade a couple of them I don't want another Pie or Hill incident where in a year we do the whole "what if" arguement. If you have a chance to get someone who could make a big difference, which I think Granderson would then do it.

 

That is why I am glad you are not the GM, no offense. I don't mind trading prospects, but I want a player who can hit both lefties and righties, and Granderson fits in only with half that scenerio. If Granderson was remotely solid against lefties, that's fine, but he's not as he Aaron Miles against lefties and that to me isn't worth Castro/Vitters or Cashner. I wouldn't be opposed to Vitters and a couple of B prospects for Granderson, but Cashner and Castro imo are off limits unless Verlander or Miguel Cabrera are coming back in the deal.

 

 

 

 

I totally understand your point. I believe you are making more of the lefty righty a silly arguement. In the central how many lefties do we really have to worry about....Cardinals....no.....Brewers.....no.....I think that is a B.S. arguement..If I am not mistaken I also believe in 2008 he hit 270 against lefties. For what we would have to give up for him....would you rather do the trade or sign Byrd? Cause I see 1 or the other happening this offseason. And I would rather trade away a couple prospects than just sign Byrd

[cubsfan5150]

So if we acquire him without somehow getting rid of Soriano (which we won't) we'll basically have a mirror playing center/left. Granderson might be a good fielder, but he K's ALL the time, and doesn't get on base very well. Awesome.

[17 Seconds]

If you have to deal prospects away then do it. Castro, Vitters Cashner. Doesn't matter to me if we had to trade a couple of them I don't want another Pie or Hill incident where in a year we do the whole "what if" arguement. If you have a chance to get someone who could make a big difference, which I think Granderson would then do it.

 

That is why I am glad you are not the GM, no offense. I don't mind trading prospects, but I want a player who can hit both lefties and righties, and Granderson fits in only with half that scenerio. If Granderson was remotely solid against lefties, that's fine, but he's not as he Aaron Miles against lefties and that to me isn't worth Castro/Vitters or Cashner. I wouldn't be opposed to Vitters and a couple of B prospects for Granderson, but Cashner and Castro imo are off limits unless Verlander or Miguel Cabrera are coming back in the deal.

 

 

 

 

I also believe in 2008 he hit 270 against lefties.

 

Nope.

 

In the central how many lefties do we really have to worry about....Cardinals....no.....Brewers.....no.....I think that is a B.S. arguement..

 

How is it a BS argument? The BS argument is saying that it doesn't matter because there aren't a lot of lefties in NL Central rotations. It doesn't matter. He's going to see a significant chunk of PAs against lefties no matter what..... especially considering how bad he is against them.

 

And hell yeah it's significant when you're THAT bad against lefties. He shouldn't be playing against lefties, period. Every time there's a lefty pithcing, Granderson becomes a terrible player. His defense is good, but it doesn't come close to making up for the .600 OPS he'll be putting up against them.

 

That said, I'd trade Vitters for him.... but not with Castro or Jackson. Hell no. If we're giving up Vitters for Granderson, the rest of the package better be pretty much just filler.

[17 Seconds]

So if we acquire him without somehow getting rid of Soriano (which we won't) we'll basically have a mirror playing center/left. Granderson might be a good fielder, but he K's ALL the time, and doesn't get on base very well. Awesome.

 

You're the second person who has compared Soriano to Granderson, and it's been equally ridiculous both times.

 

Granderson has above average patience, and if not for his ridiculous BABIP last year, he'd have 3 straight years with a high OBP. So yeah, he does get on base well. Oh, and Granderson doesn't K "all the time" (and it wouldn't even matter if he did).

 

Some players with a higher K rate than Granderson last year

 

Longoria

Youkilis

Votto

Kemp

Fielder

DeRosa

Ibanez

Drew

Upton

Choo

Wright

Werth

Bay

 

 

So to summarize, he's nothing like Soriano.

[cubsfan5150]

So I understand this right, Reynolds wouldn't be a better player if he didn't K ALL THE TIME?

[17 Seconds]

So I understand this right, Reynolds wouldn't be a better player if he didn't K ALL THE TIME?

 

Obviously you aren't understanding anything right, considering nothing I said was even remotely close to that. We're not talking about whether or not he'd be better if he K'd less anyways. I don't see what that has to do with anything. Especially considering that the K rate of Mark Reynolds isn't at all similar to Granderson.

 

The point is that he doesn't K "all the time" like you said he did. He strikes out a good amount, but not at an alarming rate. Don't forget that his K totals also are higher due to the amount of ABs he gets. Yeah he had 140 K's last year, but he also had over 700 at-bats.

 

Anyways, once you've established that you can succeed in spite of your K's, they don't really matter that much. A .950 OPS with 150 K's isn't much different than a .950 OPS with 80 k's. They're really only a concern when you question whether or not a young player can succeed in spite of them.

 

I also get the impression that people see high K totals and for some reason associate that with the way Soriano K's a lot (horrible discipline, chasing pitches constantly). Just because a guy strikes out a lot doesn't mean he's that kind of hitter (as you can see from the list I provided). Guys who walk a lot are usually going to strike out a lot too. That's just how it is.

 

I just don't understand the comparison to Soriano. The reasons you gave aren't true at all. Granderson is a good defender, has above average patience, and doesn't K nearly as much as Alfonso.

[cubsfan5150]

Here's what I see as a regular fan, Granderson does strike out a lot, and of course I don't know what his K rate is with runners on base (that's a stat I'd like to see), but everytime he K's instead of putting the ball in play somehow, that was a chance wasted to move the runner over/drive in a run.

[17 Seconds]

Here's what I see as a regular fan, Granderson does strike out a lot, and of course I don't know what his K rate is with runners on base (that's a stat I'd like to see), but everytime he K's instead of putting the ball in play somehow, that was a chance wasted to move the runner over/drive in a run.

 

Or it saved him from a double play and only made one out instead of two.

 

You think strikouts are a lot worse than they really are. It's 2009. I thought these false beliefs were dead by now. The percentage of the time that a K actually hurts you more than a different kind of out is low. Most of the time it doesn't matter. It's like you have it stuck in your head that a ground ball out is usually going to be better than a K, when the vast majority of the time, it won't be.

 

If a guy pops up with a guy at second, is that "wasting a chance to drive him in"? No, he had the chance and he popped out. Just as if he had a chance and K'd.

 

The point is that he producsed in spite of them. Like I said before, a .950 OPS with 140 K's isn't much different than a .950 OPS with 90 k's.

 

I'll say it again- the K totals don't really matter when you've proven that you're going to produce. If Granderson was putting up identical numbers but was just striking out less, he wouldn't really be much better. He'd just be making outs in different ways. Do I really need to show you even more awesome players who strike out more than Granderson? Aren't those guys just "wasting chances" to drive in runners when they K?

 

But again, what does this have to do with Soriano?

[inari]

Let's not make this any longer than it has to be and say Granderson isn't like Soriano and strikeouts don't really matter that much.

[Monco]

A .327 OBP and unable to hit lefties sounds like Jacque Jones to me.

 

Yes, I know hes better than JJ.

 

His rbi numbers are low when you look at the number of at bats and the amount of home runs he hits. I feel people are willing to give up way too much for him. Vitters name shouldn't even be mentioned.

[NewUserName]

Here's what I see as a regular fan, Granderson does strike out a lot, and of course I don't know what his K rate is with runners on base (that's a stat I'd like to see), but everytime he K's instead of putting the ball in play somehow, that was a chance wasted to move the runner over/drive in a run.

 

 

Are you my dad?

[Shilzzz]

This thread got insane when I saw a few Dexter Morgan posts I agreed with.