Granderson to Yankees in 3-way trade? p. 20

[Little Slide Rooter]

I agree it's a starting point, but I disagree with the notion that posters are undervaluing Granderson. If you look at the trade proposals, you would think we're trying to get Pujols, Halliday, or Hanley Ramirez. I would love to have Granderson, but he absolutely can't hit LHP. In other words, he's either a platoon player or a sure out against lefties. In my mind, that doesn't justify the kind of packages people are discussing.

 

Granderson (2007-2009) vs. LHP - .202/.261/.309/.570

Aaron Miles (2007-2009) vs. LHP - .288/.355/.352/.707

 

If we were trying to get Pujols or Hanley, wed be looking at packages like Marmol Castro, Viters, Cashner, and Jackson. Were talking about a shortstop with a decent contact bat and below average glove, a reliever with control issues, and a few mid level propspects or spare parts here. If we were to propose Theriot, Marmol, and Colvin for Hanley Ramirez, the Marlins would hang up without a 2nd thought.

 

A Package including Theriot, marmol, colvin is a decent package for Granderson, though you might have to include one more mid level prospect like caridad. Comparing to what the angels will offerr that might center around wood, i would argue that Detroit might value Marmol way more than Wood because if there was one thing that hurt the tigers last year, it was the bullpen.

 

I agree, add something like Caridad or Stevens to that mix, perhaps Fox if they prefer a bat, but there are some who seem to feel that we should be throwing them a pile of garbage for Granderson because he cant hit lefties.

[Old Style]

 

My ideal package would be something like Marshall, Fox, Caridad and maybe another major league arm or maybe another mid level prospect.

 

And they would promptly hang up on you. If offer up:

 

1 of Theriot, Marmol

1 of Marshall, Gorz, Shark

2 of Fox, Colvin, Hoffpauir, Fuld, Fontenot

 

or Theriot, Marmol,+ 1 of the other above.

Theriot, Marmol, and Fuld works for me.

[Sever82]

I agree it's a starting point, but I disagree with the notion that posters are undervaluing Granderson. If you look at the trade proposals, you would think we're trying to get Pujols, Halliday, or Hanley Ramirez. I would love to have Granderson, but he absolutely can't hit LHP. In other words, he's either a platoon player or a sure out against lefties. In my mind, that doesn't justify the kind of packages people are discussing.

 

Granderson (2007-2009) vs. LHP - .202/.261/.309/.570

Aaron Miles (2007-2009) vs. LHP - .288/.355/.352/.707

 

If we were trying to get Pujols or Hanley, wed be looking at packages like Marmol Castro, Viters, Cashner, and Jackson. Were talking about a shortstop with a decent contact bat and below average glove, a reliever with control issues, and a few mid level propspects or spare parts here. If we were to propose Theriot, Marmol, and Colvin for Hanley Ramirez, the Marlins would hang up without a 2nd thought.

 

A Package including Theriot, marmol, colvin is a decent package for Granderson, though you might have to include one more mid level prospect like caridad. Comparing to what the angels will offerr that might center around wood, i would argue that Detroit might value Marmol way more than Wood because if there was one thing that hurt the tigers last year, it was the bullpen.

 

I agree, add something like Caridad or Stevens to that mix, perhaps Fox if they prefer a bat, but there are some who seem to feel that we should be throwing them a pile of garbage for Granderson because he cant hit lefties.

 

I'm not opposed to offering a decent package, i just wouldn't offer Cashner, Castro Or vitters in any trade for him. I dont like theriot, so i wouldn't mind seeing him go, especially since castro looks like he'll take his spot next year.

[Sever82]

 

My ideal package would be something like Marshall, Fox, Caridad and maybe another major league arm or maybe another mid level prospect.

 

And they would promptly hang up on you. If offer up:

 

1 of Theriot, Marmol

1 of Marshall, Gorz, Shark

2 of Fox, Colvin, Hoffpauir, Fuld, Fontenot

 

or Theriot, Marmol,+ 1 of the other above.

Theriot, Marmol, and Fuld works for me.

 

I would guess you would have to add one more player. Maybe add fox to that package and i think its a good package.

[davell]

If we get in on this, I really see Guzman and not Marmol as the reliever that we try to send out. Mainly, because Marmol is the only guy we have that's proven he can close ballgames. And also the fact that Guzman has had more than his fair share of missed time, would make him the more logical guy for us to try to send out. He's a damn good pitcher and it could backfire, but he'll be less money as well and that would probably appeal to Detroit too.

 

And yes, Granderson certainly has his faults and they keep him from being an elite player most likely, but if we actually try to pry him away from Detroit, we'll have to give at least one REAL VALUE and not just "spare parts" because he's extremely popular(like Roberts and the O's) and Detroit will not want to face any fan backlash over dealing him. At the very least, I think Carpenter/Guzman/Fuld/Marshall. I don't see us moving Theriot this offseason myself. More likely, I think we'd be parting with at least one top 100ish prospect, who's conceivably not THAT far from the majors, like J Jackson/Cashner/ or Vitters. Lee doesn't have as much value right now, since he's a ways away to most teams, I would think, even if he winds up as a top 100 guy.

 

We definitely have the pieces to get him if we choose though the one team that could kill any offer we have is the Yankees. Not in terms of talent they can give up either, but they could take back Robertson, Dontrelle, or Bonderman and provide even more salary relief than what we, or most likely anyone else possibly could. They'd just need to weigh Granderson versus Damon and see if they think it's worth it for them to do.

 

As far as the Oakland package we landed Harden with, I think a more apropos comparison would be something like this:

Patterson=Barney, Murton=Fuld, Gallagher=J Jackson, and Donaldson=Castillo

[Sever82]

Callis: Cubs have enough to get Granderson

November 13, 2009 11:45 AM | No Comments | UPDATED STORY

By Phil Rogers

 

Assuming the Tigers will trade center fielder Curtis Granderson for the most attractive package of minor-league prospects they're offered, the Cubs could land him. That's the opinion of Baseball America's Jim Callis, a storehouse of knowledge on talent throughout the minors.

 

I asked Jim to rank the Angels, Cubs and Yankees in terms of their ability to swing a prospects-rich deal, and here's his reply:

 

 

"I'd rank them Cubs 1, Yankees 2, Angels 3.

"A huge factor in this is how far the clubs would be willing to get him, but the Cubs would be in a better position to put together a Granderson deal than the Yankees and Angels. If the Cubs wanted to include Starlin Castro, which might be a little crazy but they do have a lot of middle-infield talent on the way up, they could easily get a deal done. Even without Castro, they could put together a bat like Josh Vitters with an arm like Andrew Cashner, Jay Jackson or Chris Carpenter. If the Tigers were willing to take a talent further away from the majors, they could ask for Hak-Ju Lee, if the Cubs didn't want to part with Castro.

 

"The Cubs have enough interesting young players to put together a package and still have talent remaining. The Yankees' best prospect is slugger Jesus Montero, but I'm not sure they'd part with him. Even if they would, I don't think he's going to be a catcher, so you're betting 100 percent on his bat. The Cubs could offer someone with much more positional value as a centerpiece and better secondary players in the deal.

 

"The Angels don't have the same depth as the Cubs. I assume they'd try to build a deal around Brandon Wood, but I don't think they could match the Cubs if the Cubs decide they have to have Granderson. And the Angels already have Torii Hunter, so I don't think they'd want him as badly."

[Sever82]

Still feel its fullish if they include Castro and even Callis seems to think the same. I wouldn't mind sending Juk Lee, Jackson, Marshall and Fuld for Granderson. I still feell though that the tigers would name Marmol or Guzman in the deal because they need bullpen help.

[jersey cubs fan]

Still feel its fullish if they include Castro and even Callis seems to think the same. I wouldn't mind sending Juk Lee, Jackson, Marshall and Fuld for Granderson. I still feell though that the tigers would name Marmol or Guzman in the deal because they need bullpen help.

 

A potential franchise SS for a platoon CF is a bad idea. I'd include Vitters and just about anybody else though.

[Keener98]

Yea Im pretty certain there is noway in hell Hendry will trade Castro for Granderson, With that said, its nice to know our system is on the upswing.

[davell]

Still feel its fullish if they include Castro and even Callis seems to think the same. I wouldn't mind sending Juk Lee, Jackson, Marshall and Fuld for Granderson. I still feell though that the tigers would name Marmol or Guzman in the deal because they need bullpen help.

 

A potential franchise SS for a platoon CF is a bad idea. I'd include Vitters and just about anybody else though.

 

 

I would too. Vitters' stock has dropped some already as his nagging injuries, lack of plate discipline, and defensive shortcomings have all been talked about alot recently. If he's the centerpiece and we weren't giving up a ton more, count me in.

 

The only prospect, other than Castro, that I wouldn't deal is actually Hak-ju Lee. You don't get great value dealing someone who's a ways away from the majors to begin with, but I really want to see him and Castro as the top of our batting order at some point in the near future. I really see Lee as the guy in our system currently that will make a huge name for himself next season. And considering he's probably better than 50-50 to make BA's top 100 list THIS year, I guess I'm saying he could wind up being Castro-like in his assent up the lists.

[Little Slide Rooter]

I really dont see Granderson as a platoon player. Maybe give him an off day vs. a tough lefty, but other than that, hes an everyday guy. Im sure he'd come face to face with a lot of loogys late in games, but if hes surrounded by Ramirez and Soriano, it shouldnt be too big of a problem.

 

I wouldnt give up Castro for him, but just about anyone else should be available. Id rather not give up Cashner, Vitters, or Jackson, but if one of them were required to pull it off, Id say make it happen. I would not, however give up more than one of the above.

 

And I know there arent a lot of Edwin Jackson fans, but how would people feel about:

 

Marmol, Marshall, Theriot, Colvin, and Fox for Granderson and Jackson?

[SouthSideRyan]

Oh my God, WSR his #s vs lefties have been posted like 10 times in this thread.

[Keener98]

I really dont see Granderson as a platoon player. Maybe give him an off day vs. a tough lefty, but other than that, hes an everyday guy. Im sure he'd come face to face with a lot of loogys late in games, but if hes surrounded by Ramirez and Soriano, it shouldnt be too big of a problem.

 

I wouldnt give up Castro for him, but just about anyone else should be available. Id rather not give up Cashner, Vitters, or Jackson, but if one of them were required to pull it off, Id say make it happen. I would not, however give up more than one of the above.

 

And I know there arent a lot of Edwin Jackson fans, but how would people feel about:

 

Marmol, Marshall, Theriot, Colvin, and Fox for Granderson and Jackson?

 

He OPS'ed under 500 last year vs leftys for Christs sake, he is the definition of "platoon player". The last 3 years hes at a whopping 570 OPS vs leftys.

[Little Slide Rooter]

But how many really tough lefty starters are even in the NL? JOhan Santana, Cole Hamels, and Clayton Kershaw, and wed face each of them twice at most during the regular season.

[SouthSideRyan]

But how many really tough lefty starters are even in the NL? JOhan Santana, Cole Hamels, and Clayton Kershaw, and wed face each of them twice at most during the regular season.

 

If all Granderson did was struggle against really tough lefties he probably wouldn't be worse than me against them.

[erik316wttn]

But how many really tough lefty starters are even in the NL? JOhan Santana, Cole Hamels, and Clayton Kershaw, and wed face each of them twice at most during the regular season.

 

It doesn't matter if it's a "tough" lefty or not. Regardless of the skills of the pitcher, if he throws with his left hand, he will get Granderson out. That includes all-star starters like the ones you mentioned, 5th starters, closers, and journeymen relievers. I'm sure a few of the more skilled left-handed peanut guys at Wrigley would probably get him out.

 

HE

 

IS

 

A

 

PLATOON

 

PLAYER!!!

 

Learn it, love it.

[sweetpeteman]

Luckily there are ony 4-5 lefty starters on the 5 teams the Cubs play the most, and only 1 or two you could classify as good.

[jersey cubs fan]

Just because a team plays a guy against lefties doesn't mean he's not a platoon player. if you can only hit righties, you are a platoon guy. It helps that most pitchers are righties, so you are the more valuable part of a platoon, but you can't run a guy out there everyday if he absolutely cannot hit against the type of pitcher throwing that day.

 

And since they already have a guy like that in Fukudome, it would be a big problem.

[A-Cal]

charlie sheen = curtis granderson

[KingCubsFan]

Just because a team plays a guy against lefties doesn't mean he's not a platoon player. if you can only hit righties, you are a platoon guy. It helps that most pitchers are righties, so you are the more valuable part of a platoon, but you can't run a guy out there everyday if he absolutely cannot hit against the type of pitcher throwing that day.

 

And since they already have a guy like that in Fukudome, it would be a big problem.

Not sure if Fukudome is on a Granderson level. His splits were about equal in 2008 and he didn't get much of a chance in 2009

[Little Slide Rooter]

OK, so he cant hit lefties to save his life. The question is, can he hit righties good enough to make it worth our while to trade for him, and have someone like Fuld start in center once a week vs a lefty, especially considering that the majority of pitchers are right handed? The rest of our team can hit lefties well enough that other teams arent going to stack us with lefties because of 1 guy.

[rocket]

But how many really tough lefty starters are even in the NL? JOhan Santana, Cole Hamels, and Clayton Kershaw, and wed face each of them twice at most during the regular season.

 

It doesn't matter if it's a "tough" lefty or not. Regardless of the skills of the pitcher, if he throws with his left hand, he will get Granderson out. That includes all-star starters like the ones you mentioned, 5th starters, closers, and journeymen relievers. I'm sure a few of the more skilled left-handed peanut guys at Wrigley would probably get him out.

 

HE

 

IS

 

A

 

PLATOON

 

PLAYER!!!

 

Learn it, love it.

 

is he a platoon player if he's by far our best defensive option in cf?

[OleMissCub]

Ryan Howard must be a platoon player too

[fromthestretch]

Ryan Howard must be a platoon player too

 

Ryan Howard career vs. lefties = .226/.310/.444

Granderson career vs. lefties = .210/.270/.344

 

Howard still displays decent power vs. lefties.

[OleMissCub]

Ryan Howard must be a platoon player too

 

Ryan Howard career vs. lefties = .226/.310/.444

Granderson career vs. lefties = .210/.270/.344

 

Howard still displays decent power vs. lefties.

 

That's because Howard is a better player. I'm not comparing the two other than to say that they both (comparatively) suck donkey balls against lefties (memo to Jim Tracy).