Re: Week 6 - Chicago Bears at Atlanta Falcons, 7:20 PM NBC

[dew1679666265]

I went E,B,C,D,A.

 

Same for me.

[rawaction]

How much does the success of Benson and Orton in other uniforms reflect poorly on the Bears offensive line and Ron Turner? I think it's pretty significant. Throw Olin Kreutz name into that discussion. Your center should not be your best offensive lineman. It might be the 4th or 5th most important of the 5 spots. Everybody talks about how wonderful it is that this team is Olin's team and he's the leader on offense, but I don't think that's a good thing. They had to spend big on a proven franchise QB (not to mention an approaching washed-up status HOF tackle) just to become a decent offense. Orton and Benson both had abilities that the Bears could not maximize, partly because their coordinator isn't any good, and partly because their line has been a major weak point.

 

I was going to post something similar. It really pains me to see. Of course, Cutler and Forte are probably better as a combo, but you have to take into consideration it's Cutler and Forte for Orton, Benson, the pick used to draft Forte (because you didn't have a RB) and the picks traded for Cutler.

 

Still, I can't complain about what the Bears are doing. Thanks to getting a franchise QB, they could be a couple OL and WRs taking the next step away from having an elite offense. There should be no excuse to ignore the OL anymore.

[RedFlash]

Benson and Orton are no longer Bears and they shouldn't be of any concern to us fans. Let them enjoy their success, but something tells me at the end of the season nobody will want Orton/Benson back over Cutler/fORTE.

[UMFan83]

Benson was a very good compliment for Thomas Jones in 05 and 06, but when he was handed the job in 07, the team wasn't behind him and then had a mediocre season followed by his third semi major injury and then multiple run ins with the law. Benson was never gonna work out in Chicago and it was partly the Bears fault, but mostly his own fault. I certainly do not wish well upon him except for the purposes of my fantasy team, but it doesn't bother me that he's doing well.

 

As for Orton, there was a small but vocal faction of Bears fans that while happy that the Cutler trade was made, thought we could have gone along with Orton. I said there was no bend to my above post but there was a slight tilt. Orton's start to 2008 may have not been the best of the 5 numbers I posted, but it wasn't all that far off. If you can have a 62+ completion percentage, average 7-7.5 YPA and limit your INTs you are gonna be able to hold your own in the league. The other jokes that the Bears have used at QB over the last few decades were missing some or all of this. Orton was unfairly grouped into that mix because he didn't have superstar talent. But he was actually quite effective until he suffered his high ankle sprain that affected him the rest of the season. I am a big fan of Cutler and I'm super psyched at what he can do for this team (especially this team in particular which needs a QB that can lead them to wins, not just one that can steady the course), but I wouldn't have been upset if we went to war with KO. He really showed me a lot from his rookie year, when he was very ineffective and couldn't lead the team on sustained drives. But he sat out 06 and most of 07 came back a more polished QB in 2008. I wish nothing but the best for KO, but at the same time it pisses me off that the media is picking up on his story and just now starting to believe in his ability, because it all comes at the expense of the Chicago Bears organization, when it shouldn't. WE developed him and then WE upgraded. We did nothing wrong. Kyle was born to lead teams with a great defense and good weapons on offense. He can't screw that team up.

[DivineBovine]

How much does the success of Benson and Orton in other uniforms reflect poorly on the Bears offensive line and Ron Turner? I think it's pretty significant. Throw Olin Kreutz name into that discussion. Your center should not be your best offensive lineman. It might be the 4th or 5th most important of the 5 spots. Everybody talks about how wonderful it is that this team is Olin's team and he's the leader on offense, but I don't think that's a good thing. They had to spend big on a proven franchise QB (not to mention an approaching washed-up status HOF tackle) just to become a decent offense. Orton and Benson both had abilities that the Bears could not maximize, partly because their coordinator isn't any good, and partly because their line has been a major weak point.

 

 

I think you hit the nail on the head. I blame Turner and the offensive line. I wouldn't blame Angelo, Lovie, or anyone else as much as those them.

 

Clearly, both players benefitted from a change in scenery, and those have been the biggest differences. Give any QB or RB better plays and better blocking, and they perform better. Time will tell how good Orton and Benson turn out to be, but it looks pretty bad for Turner and the offensive line right now. They went to two different teams, and they both are playing like different players. Does that mean that both the Bengals and the Broncos have better offensive systems in place than the Bears? Maybe.

[Soul]

Turner didn't materialize out of thin air. It's the org. itself that hired him, re-hired him, continues to believe he's good when he's not.

 

I think we all agree Turner's a problem. It's really true we haven't had a true franchise QB since Luckman. That's more like 60 years, not 20. Turner can't cover that long a period.

 

Only systematic, organizational ineptitude can account for that.

 

When Cutler finally retires, I fear you will again see a lengthy period of bad QB play on this team.

[UMFan83]

I was just surfing around some Falcons message boards reading their thoughts on the game. They seem very confident of victory (as they should coming off such a blowout road win over a halfway decent team), but they also seem to have enough respect for our team. The majority seems to think they are decent but not great. The weird thing I read is that they seem to fear Forte. They keep talking about if they can shut down Forte they have a shot. Should be an interesting game. Atlanta is 9-1 at home since the start of last season, so it's definitely not gonna be a walk in the park.

[WrigleyField 22]

As for Orton, there was a small but vocal faction of Bears fans that while happy that the Cutler trade was made, thought we could have gone along with Orton. I said there was no bend to my above post but there was a slight tilt. Orton's start to 2008 may have not been the best of the 5 numbers I posted, but it wasn't all that far off. If you can have a 62+ completion percentage, average 7-7.5 YPA and limit your INTs you are gonna be able to hold your own in the league. The other jokes that the Bears have used at QB over the last few decades were missing some or all of this. Orton was unfairly grouped into that mix because he didn't have superstar talent. But he was actually quite effective until he suffered his high ankle sprain that affected him the rest of the season. I am a big fan of Cutler and I'm super psyched at what he can do for this team (especially this team in particular which needs a QB that can lead them to wins, not just one that can steady the course), but I wouldn't have been upset if we went to war with KO. He really showed me a lot from his rookie year, when he was very ineffective and couldn't lead the team on sustained drives. But he sat out 06 and most of 07 came back a more polished QB in 2008. I wish nothing but the best for KO, but at the same time it pisses me off that the media is picking up on his story and just now starting to believe in his ability, because it all comes at the expense of the Chicago Bears organization, when it shouldn't. WE developed him and then WE upgraded. We did nothing wrong. Kyle was born to lead teams with a great defense and good weapons on offense. He can't screw that team up.

 

Orton is a nice piece to the right puzzle, and Cutler is the piece that you build the rest of the puzzle around. Thats pretty much the best way to put it.

[rawaction]

It's hard for me to imagine a true shootout in this game. Falcons haven't exactly been a well oiled machine so far, and don't figure to get there in SF this weekend. Despite not turning the ball over much, ATL hasn't been on the field as much as they would like offensively. They haven't had any big plays with only 2 plays over 25 yards, though they have played 2 tough defenses in 3 games.

 

Plus, I think both teams are going to try to establish the run a lot. They are 25th and 26th in that area so far this year. That should slow down the scoring some.

 

I think the game will see both teams in the 20s, but I wouldn't expect either in the 30s.

 

Well, this is was I posted last week. So, much for that. Sunday, the Falcons were well oiled. They were on the field a lot. They had 3 plays over 25 in the game, and one more at 24. And the defense jumped all the way to the middle of the pack vs. both the run and pass.

 

Still, even in the domination, I saw areas where the Bears can attack the Falcons defense. They have a rookie FS who has played well, but the Bears should be able to get in the middle of the field. 51 yards came to Davis in the middle of the field. SF's best success came throwing the ball downfield, as 100 of Hill's 198 yards came on 2 deep throws.

 

I do think we could see a game in the 30s now. ATL has all kinds of confidence coming off a blowout of one of the top defensive teams in the league. But I think the week off could be the neutralizer. I like Hester and Knox on the turf. I like Olsen against their LBs and safeties. I like Cutler with 2 weeks to work with an offense that has been getting better each week.

[Vanilla Ice]

I was just surfing around some Falcons message boards reading their thoughts on the game. They seem very confident of victory (as they should coming off such a blowout road win over a halfway decent team), but they also seem to have enough respect for our team. The majority seems to think they are decent but not great. The weird thing I read is that they seem to fear Forte. They keep talking about if they can shut down Forte they have a shot. Should be an interesting game. Atlanta is 9-1 at home since the start of last season, so it's definitely not gonna be a walk in the park.

Which boards?

[Banedon]

I know there's a health distrust of media analysis, but Mike Mulligan was saying on the radio this morning that Benson was just not committed to football when he was on the Bears. He thought he should be (and was) handed the starting RB job over Jones. That he didn't commit himself to the game. I think his arrest, release, and nearly falling out of the league really woke him up to work hard at being a good RB, instead of just expecting it to happen. Also there's a lot less expectations of him in Cincy than there was in Chicago. Overall it's just a good situation for him.

 

All that said, Turner's a bad OC. The success they are having right now is almost entirely due to Cutler and other offensive personnel (Forte, Knox) being very good players and making plays happen. I'm scared we're stuck with Turner as long as Lovie is here, and I'm scared he's here for a long time. The Bears are still a good football team with them, but I think with a better coaching staff, they could be a great team.

 

But then I'm the optimist opposite to UMfan's pessimism :)

 

Oh, and Orton I think reflects much worse on Turner than Benson does. Even though I still think Orton is just an average QB, he's being put in the right position to succeed. The Broncos are much, much better than I expected.

[Soul]

It's pretty clear Turner's best hope is that Cutler just turns into an on-the-field OC.

[Banedon]

PFT has the Bears #6.

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/10/13/week-five-power-rankings/

[Mark Priors Calves]

On ESPN.com's front page, there's an insider protected article titled "A Chance of T.O. to Bears". Any insiders wanna give a summary of it?

[kujay]

On ESPN.com's front page, there's an insider protected article titled "A Chance of T.O. to Bears". Any insiders wanna give a summary of it?

 

Complete speculation by Schefter.

 

According to ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter, the Bills might want to consider what the market would offer for Terrell Owens.

 

It makes a lot of sense for the Bills to dangle T.O., he notes. Owens is in the last year of a one-year, $6.5 million contract. If Buffalo were to trade Owens, they could get back a mid-round draft pick for a player who will be free to walk away from the organization after this season in a year when the Bills are no longer viewed as a playoff contender.

 

What's more, the Bills would save about two-thirds of his salary -- over $4 million, a nice tidy sum for a franchise that has looked for alternative ways to generate revenue (and he's already helped them sell-out for the rest of the year). Schefter believes it would take a playoff-caliber team that needed a wide receiver to help make this trade work. But a team such as Chicago, which could use a play-making wide receiver to help unseat the first-place Minnesota Vikings, might find it worthwhile to part with a mid-round pick for an offensive playmaker that can help make a difference this season.

[Soul]

I love the comment about TO already helping the Bills sell out their stadium.

 

So the suggestion is that the Bills slap all those fans in the face for their support. Nice.

[cubweiser03]

One of the Bengals big ? this year was their oline. Its not like these dudes are maulers. Id bet the bengals oline talent for talent isnt much better than the Bears. I look at Turner as a reason for failure with Benson. As for Orton he put together some good games last year too before he hurt his ankle. He's getting sacked about the same rate as last year but is completing 4.5% more of his passes this year. The completion % is probably more of a factor of the system than Brandon Marshall.

[jersey cubs fan]

Turner didn't materialize out of thin air. It's the org. itself that hired him, re-hired him, continues to believe he's good when he's not.

 

I think we all agree Turner's a problem. It's really true we haven't had a true franchise QB since Luckman. That's more like 60 years, not 20. Turner can't cover that long a period.

 

Only systematic, organizational ineptitude can account for that.

 

When Cutler finally retires, I fear you will again see a lengthy period of bad QB play on this team.

 

McMahon and Harbaugh were both good enough to be franchise QBs in the right system. Say what you want about 60 years ago, but Turner has been in charge of the offense for most of the past 16 years. And in between he spent a lot of time at a Big Ten school that sucked. I'm not giving the organization a pass, Angelo's struggles with finding offensive lineman was evident when he was with Tampa. It's a combination of an organizational failure to fix the offensive line and relying on an offensive coordinator who is unable to maximize the talent given him or provide enough influence to find better talent.

[jersey cubs fan]

I love the comment about TO already helping the Bills sell out their stadium.

 

So the suggestion is that the Bills slap all those fans in the face for their support. Nice.

 

The suggestion is to do what you can to make the team better. Keeping TO does nothing to help the team win, trading him for picks that could make a difference going forward would be better. The fans might feel slighted early, but in the long run they should realize the benefits.

[Soul]

One of the Bengals big ? this year was their oline. Its not like these dudes are maulers. Id bet the bengals oline talent for talent isnt much better than the Bears. I look at Turner as a reason for failure with Benson. As for Orton he put together some good games last year too before he hurt his ankle. He's getting sacked about the same rate as last year but is completing 4.5% more of his passes this year. The completion % is probably more of a factor of the system than Brandon Marshall.

 

7 TD vs 1 INT too. That's a pretty damn good ratio for early season. His yards per catch is up too, from 6.4 under Turner to 7.5 with the Broncs.

 

I'm pretty much in agreement with everyone on Turner. He's obviously not a good OC.

[jersey cubs fan]

Yesterday the line was 3.5, it's already down to 3. Are there that many Bears fans who picked them this early? I felt pretty good getting that extra .5 point.

[Guest]

I can't believe a player of TO skill only makes $6.5 million. Makes Samardjiza switch to baseball look even smarter.

[jersey cubs fan]

I can't believe a player of TO skill only makes $6.5 million. Makes Samardjiza switch to baseball look even smarter.

 

He makes that little because his skills have declined and his attitude has kept suitors away. A non-dick TO could have been making over $10m this year.

[CubColtPacer]

I can't believe a player of TO skill only makes $6.5 million. Makes Samardjiza switch to baseball look even smarter.

 

He makes that little because his skills have declined and his attitude has kept suitors away. A non-dick TO could have been making over $10m this year.

 

Exactly. The number of teams interested in him is very small at this point. He already has been cut from two different teams in the last 3 to 4 years including one of the teams who is known to take headcases (Dallas). He's had plenty of big contracts in his career but teams have consistently decided that having the dead money from his big contract is worth it just to have him gone.

[CubColtPacer]

I love the comment about TO already helping the Bills sell out their stadium.

 

So the suggestion is that the Bills slap all those fans in the face for their support. Nice.

 

The suggestion is to do what you can to make the team better. Keeping TO does nothing to help the team win, trading him for picks that could make a difference going forward would be better. The fans might feel slighted early, but in the long run they should realize the benefits.

 

It is risky though because Buffalo cannot afford too many more PR hits. The fans in Buffalo are already feeling betrayed by having one of their home games taken away from them for the next few years (and the 9 straight non-playoff years have not helped). Sure, they would likely eventually come around, but only if there is enough of a fanbase left at that point.