Derosa to Indians for Jeff Stevens, Chris Archer, John Gaub

[Post Count Padder]

They got somewhat lucky that DeRosa improved upon his career when he did. But his age 31 career season prior to coming to Chicago was significantly better than Miles season, and that followed up an age 30 season that was a heck of a lot better than Miles. DeRosa's career to that point was not impressive, but it was better than what Miles has done.

 

Actually DeRosa's and Miles' careers prior to signing with the Cubs were almost identical. Including the fact, that both had career years prior to signing.

 

Miles career prior to signing at 32 .289/.329/.364

Derosa's career #'s prior to signing .260/.316/.366

at 32

 

Based on those #'s you would be a fool to assume that Miles would turn out to put up #'s similar to DeRosa's, but I suppose it is possible that Mile's numbers could still improve over his career year, last year. I think the real swap is Fontenot for DeRosa, as the Cubs will be mainly facing RHP.

 

I will be interested to see if Fontenot continues to improve this year. If Fontenot can continue his career .853 OPS vs. RHP. The loss of DeRosa isn't all that bad.

Well it looks good if you put it like that, but we all know Miles isn't gonna knock out 20 homers in the next two years. I can't see him improving a whole lot. In Miles, we have a .290 hitter, nothing more. I hope Fontenot keeps up what he's doing and doesn't regress much.

[Backtobanks]

Sorry but I think they may be on to something, and to enter the post season with Fukudome and Gathright as your main LH hitters is pathetic.

 

But Aaron Miles makes that less pathetic?

 

DeRosa is much better at hitting RHP than Miles.

 

But this isn't about Miles, it's about acquiring Milton Bradley. Look, I hate losing DeRosa, never said I didn't, but as Hendry said, they couldn't move Ramirez, Soriano, Fukudome, or Lee, so DeRosa was the next name on the list that Hendry considered expendable to make salary room for a Milton Bradley contract. 3yrs of Milton Bradley + the 3 prospects from the Indians V.S. 1 more year of DeRosa...I don't like it necessarily, but I understand it.

 

There are ways to get a left handed bat into the lineup without moving DeRosa. Jeremy Hermida and Luke Scott are both available through trades - and with either we wouldn't have to downgrade from DeRosa to Aaron Miles.

 

I don't have a problem with trading DeRosa - I'd have been in favor of it if it improved the team. This trade did not improve the team, all it did was allow Milton Bradley to play 90 games for us and give us Aaron Miles for second base.

 

I'm hoping that the DeRosa trade is a precursor to a Peavy trade. I agree that making the DeRosa trade to free up money for Bradley without the Peavy deal doesn't make a lot of sense. As for your suggestions about Hermida and Scott, everything I have read sounds like the Marlins are asking a ton for Hermida. I have been advocating a trade for Scott (here and at OH), who could produce great numbers in a platoon. I would have traded Marquis (plus cash), Pie, and Hill for Scott and most of the posters were very receptive to the deal (unfortunately I didn't hear from AM :mrgreen: ). Splitting playing time in CF/RF/2B between Fukudome, Johnson, Gathwright, Scott, DeRosa, and Fontenot seems to cover all aspects of lefty/righty, speed, decent power, and defense while saving money.

[dew1679666265]

Sorry but I think they may be on to something, and to enter the post season with Fukudome and Gathright as your main LH hitters is pathetic.

 

But Aaron Miles makes that less pathetic?

 

DeRosa is much better at hitting RHP than Miles.

 

But this isn't about Miles, it's about acquiring Milton Bradley. Look, I hate losing DeRosa, never said I didn't, but as Hendry said, they couldn't move Ramirez, Soriano, Fukudome, or Lee, so DeRosa was the next name on the list that Hendry considered expendable to make salary room for a Milton Bradley contract. 3yrs of Milton Bradley + the 3 prospects from the Indians V.S. 1 more year of DeRosa...I don't like it necessarily, but I understand it.

 

There are ways to get a left handed bat into the lineup without moving DeRosa. Jeremy Hermida and Luke Scott are both available through trades - and with either we wouldn't have to downgrade from DeRosa to Aaron Miles.

 

I don't have a problem with trading DeRosa - I'd have been in favor of it if it improved the team. This trade did not improve the team, all it did was allow Milton Bradley to play 90 games for us and give us Aaron Miles for second base.

 

I'm hoping that the DeRosa trade is a precursor to a Peavy trade. I agree that making the DeRosa trade to free up money for Bradley without the Peavy deal doesn't make a lot of sense. As for your suggestions about Hermida and Scott, everything I have read sounds like the Marlins are asking a ton for Hermida. I have been advocating a trade for Scott (here and at OH), who could produce great numbers in a platoon. I would have traded Marquis (plus cash), Pie, and Hill for Scott and most of the posters were very receptive to the deal (unfortunately I didn't hear from AM :mrgreen: ). Splitting playing time in CF/RF/2B between Fukudome, Johnson, Gathwright, Scott, DeRosa, and Fontenot seems to cover all aspects of lefty/righty, speed, decent power, and defense while saving money.

 

The only way this trade isn't terrible is if it ultimately nets us Peavy. As for Hermida, I'd rather give up an arm and a leg in the future than sell off valuable pieces of the current team for risky prospects when the goal of the team is a championship.

 

I'd greatly prefer Hermida over Scott mainly because Hermida would be a serious candidate long term in RF. But, if we had gotten Scott, I'd probably have stuck mainly with DeRo/Fontenot at 2B and Reed filling in against lefties between RF and CF. Keep Cedeno as well and play him at 2B some with DeRosa going to RF and Reed in CF.

[RynoRules]

I generally like the idea of taking the sell high approach in some cases. I don't think DeRosa was one of those cases.

 

I was all for selling high on DeRosa. I didn't think that would mean trading for marginal relief prospects and signing Aaron Freaking Miles.

 

I think BBB's point was that selling high on DeRosa (something I was also in favor of) was fine to the extent you don't "aggrevate" the loss by signing someone who is injury-prone to play in a spot that DeRosa could fill. So, had we signed Adam Dunn, for example, losing DeRosa wouldn't mean as much as it does.

 

The only solace - which I have not seen brought up but might have missed - is that Fukudome can always play RF if and when Bradley is hurt. Johnson would then play full-time in CF, or platoon with Pie (assuming he is still here). Not great, but not horrendous either, IMO.

[Guest]

Baseball America[/url]"]The Cubs acquired a reliever who could help the bullpen in 2009 and two more arms who could be useful in a few years if they pan out. Stevens and Gaub each ranked among the Indians' top 30 prospects, with Stevens sneaking into the top 20. Stevens is the player in the deal who is the closest to making an impact in the big leagues, as he could help the Cubs in middle relief in 2009. Stevens has posted high strikeout rates through every level of the minor leagues, though he doesn't have overpowering stuff. Stevens, 25, posted a 3.24 ERA with 27 walks (4.2 per nine innings) and 81 strikeouts (12.5 per nine) in 2008 between Double-A Akron and Triple-A Buffalo before joining Team USA to win a bronze medal at the Olympics in August. He leans heavily on his fastball, which sits at 90-94 mph and touches 95, though he'll also mix in a mid-70s curve and a cutter as well. Some of the deception in his delivery keeps hitters off balance.

 

Merely taking the field in 2008 was an accomplishment for Gaub, The 23-year-old's injuries have taken a toll on his career since he was a junior at Minnesota in 2006. After striking out 65 in 39 innings and touching 96 mph as a sophomore, Gaub's velocity dropped to 81-84 mph as a junior after he had trouble returning from arthroscopic shoulder surgery. The Indians picked Gaub in the 21st round and signed him for $155,000, but he had another shoulder surgery in 2007 and pitched only four innings that year. Gaub no longer regularly touches 96 mph, instead sitting more frequently around 90-91, but he's learned to be successful without his pre-surgery pitch quality. He had a 3.38 ERA in 64 innings for Lake County in 2008 and struck out a whopping 100 batters (14.1 per nine innings) with 32 walks (4.5 per nine). He has ditched the curveball he threw as an amateur and now throws a slider instead.

 

Archer, 19, was a fifth-round pick in 2006 who has a low-90s fastball, a solid-average curveball and a changeup that could become an average offering. Archer needs to straighten out a few things in his delivery, such as his timing and finding a consistent release point, to become a more prolific strike thrower. In 2008, Archer had a 4.29 ERA for low Class A Lake County and struck out 106 batters in 115 innings, but he also walked 87 (6.6 per nine).

 

The extra kick in the deal for Cleveland is that DeRosa is a fringe Type A free agent candidate. The Indians appear likely to net at least a 2010 supplemental first-round pick if DeRosa declines arbitration as a Type B free agent, but they could also gain a first-round pick if he's a Type A. The draft pick itself could prove to be more valuable than all three of the arms the Cubs acquired, let alone the performance the Indians will reap from DeRosa.

 

Of course Hendry appears to be averse to offering arbitration to get picks...as did many other GMs this offseason.

[JeffH]

The draft pick itself could prove to be more valuable than all three of the arms the Cubs acquired, let alone the performance the Indians will reap from DeRosa.

 

Could this comment have possibly been more unnecessary?

[badnews]

Baseball America essentially crapped on the trade from the Cubs' perspective. Even if you don't buy DeRosa at his 2008 numbers, which no one does, how do you get not a single guy ranked in the Indians Top 15 prospects. Remember when the Indians traded an actual prospect for 4 months of Kenny Lofton? Come on now.

[mul21]

Ok maybe not in this market, but he's a 17m player with the market the way it has been the last few years. When you consider Beltran, Carlos Lee, Torii Hunter and others are making simliar money per year with simliar career stats or worse then Soriano.

 

Two of the players you mentioned play a premium defensive position, and the third is making significantly less than Soriano.

 

No he isn't. Annualized it's not even $1M less per year. Soriano got 2 more years, but not much more money per.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Ok maybe not in this market, but he's a 17m player with the market the way it has been the last few years. When you consider Beltran, Carlos Lee, Torii Hunter and others are making simliar money per year with simliar career stats or worse then Soriano.

 

Two of the players you mentioned play a premium defensive position, and the third is making significantly less than Soriano.

 

No he isn't. Annualized it's not even $1M less per year. Soriano got 2 more years, but not much more money per.

 

I'd say the extra two years is pretty significant in terms of measuring how much the player is getting.

[Monco]

The draft pick itself could prove to be more valuable than all three of the arms the Cubs acquired, let alone the performance the Indians will reap from DeRosa.

 

Could this comment have possibly been more unnecessary?

 

It says that the compensation that they would receive for DeRosa leaving as a free agent is worth more than the bucket of balls they received.

[JeffH]

The draft pick itself could prove to be more valuable than all three of the arms the Cubs acquired, let alone the performance the Indians will reap from DeRosa.

 

Could this comment have possibly been more unnecessary?

 

It says that the compensation that they would receive for DeRosa leaving as a free agent is worth more than the bucket of balls they received.

 

I know what it says. Actually, it says that a single sandwich pick COULD wind up being more valuable. Aside from the fact that that's not likely, what's the point in saying that it COULD be more valuable? Of course it COULD be. Aaron Miles COULD be more valuable next season than Albert Pujols. So what?

[SouthSideRyan]

The draft pick itself could prove to be more valuable than all three of the arms the Cubs acquired, let alone the performance the Indians will reap from DeRosa.

 

Could this comment have possibly been more unnecessary?

 

It says that the compensation that they would receive for DeRosa leaving as a free agent is worth more than the bucket of balls they received.

 

I know what it says. Actually, it says that a single sandwich pick COULD wind up being more valuable. Aside from the fact that that's not likely, what's the point in saying that it COULD be more valuable? Of course it COULD be. Aaron Miles COULD be more valuable next season than Albert Pujols. So what?

 

The draft picks being more valuable don't rely on the 3 pitchers dropping dead though.

[JeffH]

The draft pick itself could prove to be more valuable than all three of the arms the Cubs acquired, let alone the performance the Indians will reap from DeRosa.

 

Could this comment have possibly been more unnecessary?

 

It says that the compensation that they would receive for DeRosa leaving as a free agent is worth more than the bucket of balls they received.

 

I know what it says. Actually, it says that a single sandwich pick COULD wind up being more valuable. Aside from the fact that that's not likely, what's the point in saying that it COULD be more valuable? Of course it COULD be. Aaron Miles COULD be more valuable next season than Albert Pujols. So what?

 

The draft picks being more valuable don't rely on the 3 pitchers dropping dead though.

 

Now you're just being ridiculous. Pujols would merely have to lapse into a six month long coma.

[cubsfan26]

I don't understand why people are calling the players we got a bucket of balls. Stevens has the potential to be a solid set guy for years to come. The other guys are young and raw, but they both have very good stuff. Yes neither is ranked very highly in the Indians system, but are unproven A-ball players usually highly ranked in teams systems if their not high draft picks? When guys have big years in A or AA is when they usually move up the ladder and become good prospects. Jose Ceda was a very simliar prospect as Archer and Gaub when we got him as well. Hendry could have probably gotten a couple of average prospects maybe one in the top 10 of the Indians system for DeRosa. But that player or players upside probably wasn't really good. So he decided to take the higher ceiling lower level guys instead. I don't see anything wrong with what we got in return, other then that fact I dunno how it's gonna help us in 09.

[JGalt73]

Keith Law's take:

 

None of the three arms going back to Chicago is anyone for Cleveland fans to worry about. Jeff Stevens will pitch in the majors as a middle reliever, but despite high minor league strikeout rates, his stuff is average (he'll touch 93 mph, but sits 89-92) and he doesn't have a pitch that projects to miss bats in the majors. John Gaub looked like a potential first-round pick during his sophomore year in college, but hurt his shoulder before his junior season, after which he had trouble getting on the mound and showed a marked decrease in velocity when he did pitch. He hurt his shoulder again after 2006 and his stuff is fringe-average; the high strikeout rate he showed in Lake County was as much a product of the competition, as he was three or four years older than most of the hitters he faced. Chris Archer has youth on his side, but not stuff and definitely not control. It's a package of bulk, not upside or clear big-league value, making this appear to be a salary dump for the Cubs.

[Larry Horse]

My problem with this trade is that DeRosa was arguably one of the best players on the Cubs last year and I am all in favor of selling high, but did Hendry actually do that?

 

I'm starting to get an uneasy feeling about next year.

[shnsajax]

Who's blog are we going to get to read now?

[Gingerballs Lives]

My problem with this trade is that DeRosa was arguably one of the best players on the Cubs last year and I am all in favor of selling high, but did Hendry actually do that?

 

I'm starting to get an uneasy feeling about next year.

 

 

I have a terrible feeling about next year.

[dew1679666265]

I don't understand why people are calling the players we got a bucket of balls. Stevens has the potential to be a solid set guy for years to come. The other guys are young and raw, but they both have very good stuff. Yes neither is ranked very highly in the Indians system, but are unproven A-ball players usually highly ranked in teams systems if their not high draft picks? When guys have big years in A or AA is when they usually move up the ladder and become good prospects. Jose Ceda was a very simliar prospect as Archer and Gaub when we got him as well. Hendry could have probably gotten a couple of average prospects maybe one in the top 10 of the Indians system for DeRosa. But that player or players upside probably wasn't really good. So he decided to take the higher ceiling lower level guys instead. I don't see anything wrong with what we got in return, other then that fact I dunno how it's gonna help us in 09.

 

That's a pretty big deal when we're trying to win the World Series and we don't have a guy we're certain can perform behind DeRosa. We're hoping Mike Fontenot and Aaron Miles ( :banghead: ) can come somewhat close to replicating DeRo's production, but that's far from a sure thing.

 

And when I thought about trading high on DeRosa, I didn't have three possible Jose Cedas in mind. It would have been far better to keep him and pursue Hermida, Scott, etc.

[Guest]

I think that one of the things getting consistently lost in all this drama is that keeping DeRosa would likely have been a downgrade from the 2008 DeRosa. If the Cubs wanted that level of production from 2B again, they pretty much had to go in a different direction.

 

Don't get me wrong, I hate the Miles half of the platoon. And I am disappointed in the haul from the trade. But I don't disagree with the idea of dumping DeRosa and moving on.

[dew1679666265]

I think that one of the things getting consistently lost in all this drama is that keeping DeRosa would likely have been a downgrade from the 2008 DeRosa. If the Cubs wanted that level of production from 2B again, they pretty much had to go in a different direction.

 

Don't get me wrong, I hate the Miles half of the platoon. And I am disappointed in the haul from the trade. But I don't disagree with the idea of dumping DeRosa and moving on.

 

Nor do I, depending on what you mean by "dumping" DeRosa. If you mean get rid of him for a bag of balls, then I disagree. If you mean sell high and get good value, then I agree. Sadly, Hendry came closer to the bag of balls trade than the good value trade.

 

And then, he follows that up by signing a guy that we desperately need DeRosa on the roster to maximize his value (Bradley). If you're going to get rid of your best depth, get a guy (Dunn) who we don't need a lot of depth behind. Dunn will most likely play 150 games next year, Bradley will most likely play less than 100.

[BigbadB]

I think that one of the things getting consistently lost in all this drama is that keeping DeRosa would likely have been a downgrade from the 2008 DeRosa. If the Cubs wanted that level of production from 2B again, they pretty much had to go in a different direction.

 

Don't get me wrong, I hate the Miles half of the platoon. And I am disappointed in the haul from the trade. But I don't disagree with the idea of dumping DeRosa and moving on.

 

I find it extremely hard to believe that other teams wouldn't offer up more for DeRosa. The rumored packages from Philadelphia sounded pretty good. Maybe they really weren't as good as the rumors, but apparently it was good enough for Towers to sign off on a Peavy trade when coupled with Pie going to Baltimore.

 

What about the Twins? Didn't they lose the Casey Blake sweepstakes? Weren't there other teams looking for infield help? Baltimore even seems like a possibility, though I would understand Hendry's reluctance to deal with them ever again.

 

The return package for DeRosa seems more like a panic deal to me.

[rawaction]

I think that one of the things getting consistently lost in all this drama is that keeping DeRosa would likely have been a downgrade from the 2008 DeRosa. If the Cubs wanted that level of production from 2B again, they pretty much had to go in a different direction.

 

Don't get me wrong, I hate the Miles half of the platoon. And I am disappointed in the haul from the trade. But I don't disagree with the idea of dumping DeRosa and moving on.

 

I find it extremely hard to believe that other teams wouldn't offer up more for DeRosa. The rumored packages from Philadelphia sounded pretty good. Maybe they really weren't as good as the rumors, but apparently it was good enough for Towers to sign off on a Peavy trade when coupled with Pie going to Baltimore.

 

What about the Twins? Didn't they lose the Casey Blake sweepstakes? Weren't there other teams looking for infield help? Baltimore even seems like a possibility, though I would understand Hendry's reluctance to deal with them ever again.

 

The return package for DeRosa seems more like a panic deal to me.

 

Exactly. Like Goony said, selling high on DeRosa is a great move. But the return was not great. The point of selling high is to get maximum value for something that will never be valued as highly again. In addition, trades should only be made if it makes the team better. I know this will likely be followed by a Bradley signing, but I don't believe that makes the team better than they were Tuesday. It was mentioned that there were at least 5 teams after DeRosa. Hard to believe they couldn't get better.

[FergieJ31]

I don't understand why the phrase "selling high" is even entering the conversation. If Hendry had really "sold high" he would have gotten high value in return, by definition. He has practically admitted this is a salary dump coupled with the stupid LH bat preoccupation. That is why the haul sucks.

[badnews]

Oh you've got to be kidding me. John Gaub and Chris Archer don't have particularly good stuff. You're just looking at their K/9. That's like saying Steve Andrade and Jermaine Van Buren have nasty stuff.

 

I really disagree with Tim. What good has come out of this? Okay, we traded DeRosa before the bottom fell out. Uh... so? What did it net us? Those two are like Bear Bay pitchers... you remember Bear Bay, we traded him to the Indians for CLIFF FREAKIN BARTOSH. Why do the Indians trade Max Ramirez for 70 year old Kenny Lofton and we've got people in this topic going "Uh, what did you expect you were going to get for a 21 HR .857 OPS guy who can play five different positions." Some posters on here simply have no standards, period. They think any trade in which we don't lose our five best prospects for nobody is a successful trade, they've got the "expect nothing" mindset so locked in.

 

And Aaron Miles turning into the next Mark DeRosa is laughable. Has anyone actually seen Aaron Miles in person? The dude is like 5'4 and 105 pounds. He's not even particularly fast. He brings zero to the game of baseball.

 

This trade sucks. People who are convincing themselves John Gaub can be anything like he was in college are the same people who kept saying Bobby Brownlie's velocity was coming back. Look at all the real prospects the Indians have, what a load of crap to get this.