Derosa to Indians for Jeff Stevens, Chris Archer, John Gaub

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

:shock:

[Monco]

Oh you've got to be kidding me. John Gaub and Chris Archer don't have particularly good stuff. You're just looking at their K/9. That's like saying Steve Andrade and Jermaine Van Buren have nasty stuff.

 

I really disagree with Tim. What good has come out of this? Okay, we traded DeRosa before the bottom fell out. Uh... so? What did it net us? Those two are like Bear Bay pitchers... you remember Bear Bay, we traded him to the Indians for CLIFF FREAKIN BARTOSH. Why do the Indians trade Max Ramirez for 70 year old Kenny Lofton and we've got people in this topic going "Uh, what did you expect you were going to get for a 21 HR .857 OPS guy who can play five different positions." Some posters on here simply have no standards, period. They think any trade in which we don't lose our five best prospects for nobody is a successful trade, they've got the "expect nothing" mindset so locked in.

 

And Aaron Miles turning into the next Mark DeRosa is laughable. Has anyone actually seen Aaron Miles in person? The dude is like 5'4 and 105 pounds. He's not even particularly fast. He brings zero to the game of baseball.

 

This trade sucks. People who are convincing themselves John Gaub can be anything like he was in college are the same people who kept saying Bobby Brownlie's velocity was coming back. Look at all the real prospects the Indians have, what a load of crap to get this.

=D>

[BigbadB]

I generally like the idea of taking the sell high approach in some cases. I don't think DeRosa was one of those cases.

 

I was all for selling high on DeRosa. I didn't think that would mean trading for marginal relief prospects and signing Aaron Freaking Miles.

 

I think BBB's point was that selling high on DeRosa (something I was also in favor of) was fine to the extent you don't "aggrevate" the loss by signing someone who is injury-prone to play in a spot that DeRosa could fill. So, had we signed Adam Dunn, for example, losing DeRosa wouldn't mean as much as it does.

 

The only solace - which I have not seen brought up but might have missed - is that Fukudome can always play RF if and when Bradley is hurt. Johnson would then play full-time in CF, or platoon with Pie (assuming he is still here). Not great, but not horrendous either, IMO.

 

The first paragraph is pretty accurate. I don't mind signing Bradley if DeRosa is the guy who can step into that spot when Bradley is hurt. Now we don't have DeRosa and Bradley WILL be hurt.

 

As far as the second paragraph, I think you are correct up to the point you mention Pie. I think Pie will be the next victim. IIRC, Pie is out of options. The Cubs signed Joey Gathright, so reword your paragraph with Gathright and Johnson splitting time in CF and I think that's the likely scenario.

 

Regardless, I'm very disappointed in the return for DeRosa. I'd have much rather seen some sort of return that might have been included in a deal for Hermida, Hawpe, Choo, Scott, Kubel or some other LH bat that won't cost 10m to play half a season.

[BigbadB]

My other issue is the 10m allocated for Bradley. Was there really a market to pay Bradley 10m a year? If there was, let whoever else wanted to pay that, pay that. There is just no justification to pay a guy who played a total of 21 games in the outfield last year that kind of money.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

My other issue is the 10m allocated for Bradley. Was there really a market to pay Bradley 10m a year? If there was, let whoever else wanted to pay that, pay that. There is just no justification to pay a guy who played a total of 21 games in the outfield last year that kind of money.

 

Let's wait and find out how much we're actually paying him before getting too upset about that.

[BigbadB]

My other issue is the 10m allocated for Bradley. Was there really a market to pay Bradley 10m a year? If there was, let whoever else wanted to pay that, pay that. There is just no justification to pay a guy who played a total of 21 games in the outfield last year that kind of money.

 

Let's wait and find out how much we're actually paying him before getting too upset about that.

 

True. But, haven't we been hearing 3/30m?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

My other issue is the 10m allocated for Bradley. Was there really a market to pay Bradley 10m a year? If there was, let whoever else wanted to pay that, pay that. There is just no justification to pay a guy who played a total of 21 games in the outfield last year that kind of money.

 

Let's wait and find out how much we're actually paying him before getting too upset about that.

 

True. But, haven't we been hearing 3/30m?

 

I've heard that number, but it's been far from widespread.

[Guest]

Oh you've got to be kidding me. John Gaub and Chris Archer don't have particularly good stuff. You're just looking at their K/9. That's like saying Steve Andrade and Jermaine Van Buren have nasty stuff.

 

I really disagree with Tim. What good has come out of this? Okay, we traded DeRosa before the bottom fell out. Uh... so? What did it net us? Those two are like Bear Bay pitchers... you remember Bear Bay, we traded him to the Indians for CLIFF FREAKIN BARTOSH. Why do the Indians trade Max Ramirez for 70 year old Kenny Lofton and we've got people in this topic going "Uh, what did you expect you were going to get for a 21 HR .857 OPS guy who can play five different positions." Some posters on here simply have no standards, period. They think any trade in which we don't lose our five best prospects for nobody is a successful trade, they've got the "expect nothing" mindset so locked in.

 

And Aaron Miles turning into the next Mark DeRosa is laughable. Has anyone actually seen Aaron Miles in person? The dude is like 5'4 and 105 pounds. He's not even particularly fast. He brings zero to the game of baseball.

 

This trade sucks. People who are convincing themselves John Gaub can be anything like he was in college are the same people who kept saying Bobby Brownlie's velocity was coming back. Look at all the real prospects the Indians have, what a load of crap to get this.

What is there in your post here that contradicts anything I said in my post? What exactly did I say that you "really disagree" with?

[dew1679666265]

For the people who are comparing the DeRosa signing to the Miles signing, keep in mind that DeRosa had his career year because of a tangible change he made in his swing - adding the step was at least part of it.

 

Miles' career year, from what I know, appears to be just complete luck. I haven't heard of him "figuring anything out" or making any tangible changes to his swing. That would mean Miles is much less likely to repeat his career year (which was just a 99 or so OPS+).

[Clem Fandango]

I haven't heard of him "figuring anything out" or making any tangible changes to his swing.

 

He certainly hasn't figured out how to take a friggin' walk yet

[dew1679666265]

I haven't heard of him "figuring anything out" or making any tangible changes to his swing.

 

He certainly hasn't figured out how to take a friggin' walk yet

 

But he can hit a single 30% of the time he steps to the plate . . .

[Clem Fandango]

I haven't heard of him "figuring anything out" or making any tangible changes to his swing.

 

He certainly hasn't figured out how to take a friggin' walk yet

 

But he can hit a single 30% of the time he steps to the plate . . .

 

Touché

 

http://robdamanii.com/macros/curses.jpg

[dew1679666265]

I haven't heard of him "figuring anything out" or making any tangible changes to his swing.

 

He certainly hasn't figured out how to take a friggin' walk yet

 

But he can hit a single 30% of the time he steps to the plate . . .

 

Touché

 

http://robdamanii.com/macros/curses.jpg

 

Haha! Victory is mine!

 

 

(If I knew how to post pictures, I'd post an image of Stewie. But I can't, so pretend there's one here)

[UMFan83]

For the people who are comparing the DeRosa signing to the Miles signing, keep in mind that DeRosa had his career year because of a tangible change he made in his swing - adding the step was at least part of it.

 

Miles' career year, from what I know, appears to be just complete luck. I haven't heard of him "figuring anything out" or making any tangible changes to his swing. That would mean Miles is much less likely to repeat his career year (which was just a 99 or so OPS+).

 

Yeah but you followed the Cubs all of last year so you know DeRosa made a change to his swing. How do you know Miles didn't change anything? I bet Indians fans are wondering if DeRosa's season was a fluke last year too because they didn't hear anything about a step being added to his swing.

[laurens]

I haven't heard of him "figuring anything out" or making any tangible changes to his swing.

 

He certainly hasn't figured out how to take a friggin' walk yet

 

But he can hit a single 30% of the time he steps to the plate . . .

 

Touché

 

 

Haha! Victory is mine!

 

 

(If I knew how to post pictures, I'd post an image of Stewie. But I can't, so pretend there's one here)

 

In the post window, click the "Img" button and enter the image link between (img) and (/img), just like you would do with a URL.

 

http://www.thirdwayblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/stewie.jpg

Edited January 3, 2009 by laurens

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Not to mention, it's always a good idea to be very suspect of attributing results to adjustments. Players make adjustments constantly, then they assume the ones that correlate with success are responsible. Sometimes they are, but not often enough to be 100% sure every time.

[cubweiser03]

Ill take the 2006 or 07 Derosa again forget 2008. This deal saves $3M, why didnt they just save $5.5M and count on Fontenot, and if money was so tight good job overpaying for Kevin Gregg (if they didnt trade for him they wouldnt need this DeRosa salary dump, theres your $3M+ savings). Aaron Miles #s were so much predicated on his almost 30 point swing in average compared to his career #s. If anybody is going to have their game regress in 09 its Miles more than DeRosa, if Miles bats .315 again i dont know what i would do with myself. Another nice sucky feature about the Miles signing/DeRosa trade is in '10 they are going to have $2.5M tied up in Aaron Miles instead of having that flexibility in resigning players or FA.

[dew1679666265]

For the people who are comparing the DeRosa signing to the Miles signing, keep in mind that DeRosa had his career year because of a tangible change he made in his swing - adding the step was at least part of it.

 

Miles' career year, from what I know, appears to be just complete luck. I haven't heard of him "figuring anything out" or making any tangible changes to his swing. That would mean Miles is much less likely to repeat his career year (which was just a 99 or so OPS+).

 

Yeah but you followed the Cubs all of last year so you know DeRosa made a change to his swing. How do you know Miles didn't change anything? I bet Indians fans are wondering if DeRosa's season was a fluke last year too because they didn't hear anything about a step being added to his swing.

 

I actually heard a little bit about it when DeRosa was a Ranger and then looked more into it when the Cubs signed him.

 

I knew about DeRosa's stance change before he was a Cub, though.

[Guest]

Not to mention, it's always a good idea to be very suspect of attributing results to adjustments. Players make adjustments constantly, then they assume the ones that correlate with success are responsible. Sometimes they are, but not often enough to be 100% sure every time.

It's funny. I can tell you the stated positions of just about every frequent poster on the board and generally predict how they'll respond to various announcements/arguments.

 

I have no bloody idea what side you'll take at any given time. :)

[dew1679666265]

Not to mention, it's always a good idea to be very suspect of attributing results to adjustments. Players make adjustments constantly, then they assume the ones that correlate with success are responsible. Sometimes they are, but not often enough to be 100% sure every time.

 

Since making the change, though, DeRosa has had the three best years of his career. Players normally make slight tweaks, whereas DeRosa's was a pretty large adjustment (adding a step to his swing).

[Guest]

For the people who are comparing the DeRosa signing to the Miles signing, keep in mind that DeRosa had his career year because of a tangible change he made in his swing - adding the step was at least part of it.

 

Miles' career year, from what I know, appears to be just complete luck. I haven't heard of him "figuring anything out" or making any tangible changes to his swing. That would mean Miles is much less likely to repeat his career year (which was just a 99 or so OPS+).

 

Yeah but you followed the Cubs all of last year so you know DeRosa made a change to his swing. How do you know Miles didn't change anything? I bet Indians fans are wondering if DeRosa's season was a fluke last year too because they didn't hear anything about a step being added to his swing.

 

I actually heard a little bit about it when DeRosa was a Ranger and then looked more into it when the Cubs signed him.

 

I knew about DeRosa's stance change before he was a Cub, though.

It was a timing mechanism that Jaramillo put in place to help him out.

[dew1679666265]

Ill take the 2006 or 07 Derosa again forget 2008. This deal saves $3M, why didnt they just save $5.5M and count on Fontenot, and if money was so tight good job overpaying for Kevin Gregg (if they didnt trade for him they wouldnt need this DeRosa salary dump, theres your $3M+ savings). Aaron Miles #s were so much predicated on his almost 30 point swing in average compared to his career #s. If anybody is going to have their game regress in 09 its Miles more than DeRosa, if Miles bats .315 again i dont know what i would do with myself. Another nice sucky feature about the Miles signing/DeRosa trade is in '10 they are going to have $2.5M tied up in Aaron Miles instead of having that flexibility in resigning players or FA.

 

The 06 and 07 versions of DeRosa are still a decent amount better than the best year Miles has ever had.

 

And good point on being stuck with Miles' salary in 2010 instead of having that extra flexibility.

[dew1679666265]

For the people who are comparing the DeRosa signing to the Miles signing, keep in mind that DeRosa had his career year because of a tangible change he made in his swing - adding the step was at least part of it.

 

Miles' career year, from what I know, appears to be just complete luck. I haven't heard of him "figuring anything out" or making any tangible changes to his swing. That would mean Miles is much less likely to repeat his career year (which was just a 99 or so OPS+).

 

Yeah but you followed the Cubs all of last year so you know DeRosa made a change to his swing. How do you know Miles didn't change anything? I bet Indians fans are wondering if DeRosa's season was a fluke last year too because they didn't hear anything about a step being added to his swing.

 

I actually heard a little bit about it when DeRosa was a Ranger and then looked more into it when the Cubs signed him.

 

I knew about DeRosa's stance change before he was a Cub, though.

It was a timing mechanism that Jaramillo put in place to help him out.

 

Exactly. Similar to what Sammy did in the '90s before his best seasons.

[cubweiser03]

For the people who are comparing the DeRosa signing to the Miles signing, keep in mind that DeRosa had his career year because of a tangible change he made in his swing - adding the step was at least part of it.

 

Miles' career year, from what I know, appears to be just complete luck. I haven't heard of him "figuring anything out" or making any tangible changes to his swing. That would mean Miles is much less likely to repeat his career year (which was just a 99 or so OPS+).

 

Yeah but you followed the Cubs all of last year so you know DeRosa made a change to his swing. How do you know Miles didn't change anything? I bet Indians fans are wondering if DeRosa's season was a fluke last year too because they didn't hear anything about a step being added to his swing.

 

I actually heard a little bit about it when DeRosa was a Ranger and then looked more into it when the Cubs signed him.

 

I knew about DeRosa's stance change before he was a Cub, though.

 

Yes. He worked with Jaramillo in Texas in 06 and changed the stance. So since his change he has had 3 good years, thus making his improvement in #s less 'flukey'. Flukey isnt a word but who cares.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Flukey isnt a word but who cares.

 

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/flukey