Derosa to Indians for Jeff Stevens, Chris Archer, John Gaub

[dew1679666265]

For the people who are comparing the DeRosa signing to the Miles signing, keep in mind that DeRosa had his career year because of a tangible change he made in his swing - adding the step was at least part of it.

 

Miles' career year, from what I know, appears to be just complete luck. I haven't heard of him "figuring anything out" or making any tangible changes to his swing. That would mean Miles is much less likely to repeat his career year (which was just a 99 or so OPS+).

 

Yeah but you followed the Cubs all of last year so you know DeRosa made a change to his swing. How do you know Miles didn't change anything? I bet Indians fans are wondering if DeRosa's season was a fluke last year too because they didn't hear anything about a step being added to his swing.

 

I actually heard a little bit about it when DeRosa was a Ranger and then looked more into it when the Cubs signed him.

 

I knew about DeRosa's stance change before he was a Cub, though.

 

Yes. He worked with Jaramillo in Texas in 06 and changed the stance. So since his change he has had 3 good years, thus making his improvement in #s less 'flukey'. Flukey isnt a word but who cares.

 

It's not even the three good years I'm looking at, because Miles hasn't had two more years after his initial career year. What I'm focusing on is that DeRosa made a pretty major change to his stance (Jaramillo's timing mechanism) and immediately had a career year.

 

Miles had a career year completely out of the blue (unless you count the Cardinal pixie dust). The latter seems less likely to be repeatable than the former.

[badnews]

This part of the conversation is stupid. Mark DeRosa always had the athletic gifts to be a good player. Aaron Miles has the "athletic gifts" to get beat up by 8th grade bullies. I don't get it, will someone explain to me how the hell Aaron Miles is going to "turn a corner?" He's a zero tool player, a shorter, less strong, 10 times slower version of Juan Pierre. I mean, are we just going to take any suck player and say they could be Mark DeRosa? Is someone under the impression this guy is speedy? Look at how much he hits the ball on the ground. Oh yeah, and before Mark DeRosa got "good" HIS DAMN CAREER OPS WASN'T UNDER .700. I have more faith in Cesar Izturis to suddenly get good than Aaron Miles. We got Aaron Miles, we somehow ended up with a second baseman who sucks more than Adam Kennedy. We ended up a guy who could be called the next worst thing to Nick Punto.

 

But I don't disagree with the idea of dumping DeRosa and moving on.

 

I disagree with that, looking what we got.

 

I think that one of the things getting consistently lost in all this drama is that keeping DeRosa would likely have been a downgrade from the 2008 DeRosa

 

I don't see what the point of that is. He's still a guy I think is capable of putting up a .785 OPS wherever you put him.

[UMFan83]

Random question: how much do you think it would cost to lure Jaramillo away? I'd probably rather have him that Bradley lol

[badnews]

For the people who are comparing the DeRosa signing to the Miles signing, keep in mind that DeRosa had his career year because of a tangible change he made in his swing - adding the step was at least part of it.

 

Miles' career year, from what I know, appears to be just complete luck. I haven't heard of him "figuring anything out" or making any tangible changes to his swing. That would mean Miles is much less likely to repeat his career year (which was just a 99 or so OPS+).

 

Yeah but you followed the Cubs all of last year so you know DeRosa made a change to his swing. How do you know Miles didn't change anything? I bet Indians fans are wondering if DeRosa's season was a fluke last year too because they didn't hear anything about a step being added to his swing.

 

I actually heard a little bit about it when DeRosa was a Ranger and then looked more into it when the Cubs signed him.

 

I knew about DeRosa's stance change before he was a Cub, though.

 

Yes. He worked with Jaramillo in Texas in 06 and changed the stance. So since his change he has had 3 good years, thus making his improvement in #s less 'flukey'. Flukey isnt a word but who cares.

 

It's not even the three good years I'm looking at, because Miles hasn't had two more years after his initial career year. What I'm focusing on is that DeRosa made a pretty major change to his stance (Jaramillo's timing mechanism) and immediately had a career year.

 

Miles had a career year completely out of the blue (unless you count the Cardinal pixie dust). The latter seems less likely to be repeatable than the former.

 

None of that even matters. AARON MILES DOES NOT HAVE THE PHYSICAL TOOLS TO BE ANY GOOD AT ALL WHATSOEVER. That's what matters. The guy is shorter than David Eckstein, and he can't even get hit by a pitch or be obnoxious like Eckstein. A new swing isn't going to jack crap for him because he's a midget with no muscle tone.

[Guest]

But I don't disagree with the idea of dumping DeRosa and moving on.

 

I disagree with that, looking what we got.

In my post, I clearly separated the idea of trading DeRosa and what we got for him. I'm disappointed in what we got. I'm not upset with the idea of trading him with the belief that he won't repeat his 2008.

 

I think that one of the things getting consistently lost in all this drama is that keeping DeRosa would likely have been a downgrade from the 2008 DeRosa

 

I don't see what the point of that is. He's still a guy I think is capable of putting up a .785 OPS wherever you put him.

The point is that we've got a "free" player in Fontenot who is damn near as likely to do so, which made DeRosa fairly redundant on the team.

[badnews]

Other teams don't just give away their "redundant" players though.

[dew1679666265]

Other teams don't just give away their "redundant" players though.

 

And Tim has said he doesn't like what they got for DeRosa.

 

I was for selling high on DeRo as well. Hendry didn't sell high though.

[dew1679666265]

For the people who are comparing the DeRosa signing to the Miles signing, keep in mind that DeRosa had his career year because of a tangible change he made in his swing - adding the step was at least part of it.

 

Miles' career year, from what I know, appears to be just complete luck. I haven't heard of him "figuring anything out" or making any tangible changes to his swing. That would mean Miles is much less likely to repeat his career year (which was just a 99 or so OPS+).

 

Yeah but you followed the Cubs all of last year so you know DeRosa made a change to his swing. How do you know Miles didn't change anything? I bet Indians fans are wondering if DeRosa's season was a fluke last year too because they didn't hear anything about a step being added to his swing.

 

I actually heard a little bit about it when DeRosa was a Ranger and then looked more into it when the Cubs signed him.

 

I knew about DeRosa's stance change before he was a Cub, though.

 

Yes. He worked with Jaramillo in Texas in 06 and changed the stance. So since his change he has had 3 good years, thus making his improvement in #s less 'flukey'. Flukey isnt a word but who cares.

 

It's not even the three good years I'm looking at, because Miles hasn't had two more years after his initial career year. What I'm focusing on is that DeRosa made a pretty major change to his stance (Jaramillo's timing mechanism) and immediately had a career year.

 

Miles had a career year completely out of the blue (unless you count the Cardinal pixie dust). The latter seems less likely to be repeatable than the former.

 

None of that even matters. AARON MILES DOES NOT HAVE THE PHYSICAL TOOLS TO BE ANY GOOD AT ALL WHATSOEVER. That's what matters. The guy is shorter than David Eckstein, and he can't even get hit by a pitch or be obnoxious like Eckstein. A new swing isn't going to jack crap for him because he's a midget with no muscle tone.

 

He's a switch-hitting, less good, more expensive version of Ryan Theriot.

[Cubswin11]

None of that even matters. AARON MILES DOES NOT HAVE THE PHYSICAL TOOLS TO BE ANY GOOD AT ALL WHATSOEVER. That's what matters. The guy is shorter than David Eckstein, and he can't even get hit by a pitch or be obnoxious like Eckstein. A new swing isn't going to jack crap for him because he's a midget with no muscle tone.

 

He's a switch-hitting, less good, more expensive version of Ryan Theriot.

 

But he's Gritty?

[dew1679666265]

None of that even matters. AARON MILES DOES NOT HAVE THE PHYSICAL TOOLS TO BE ANY GOOD AT ALL WHATSOEVER. That's what matters. The guy is shorter than David Eckstein, and he can't even get hit by a pitch or be obnoxious like Eckstein. A new swing isn't going to jack crap for him because he's a midget with no muscle tone.

 

He's a switch-hitting, less good, more expensive version of Ryan Theriot.

 

But he's Gritty?

 

He might be grittier than Theriot. Especially since he's not as good as Theriot.

[Cubswin11]

None of that even matters. AARON MILES DOES NOT HAVE THE PHYSICAL TOOLS TO BE ANY GOOD AT ALL WHATSOEVER. That's what matters. The guy is shorter than David Eckstein, and he can't even get hit by a pitch or be obnoxious like Eckstein. A new swing isn't going to jack crap for him because he's a midget with no muscle tone.

 

He's a switch-hitting, less good, more expensive version of Ryan Theriot.

 

But he's Gritty?

 

He might be grittier than Theriot. Especially since he's not as good as Theriot.

We easily have the grittiest team in the majors this year, our grit factor at SS/2B with Theriot/Fontenot/Miles is unprecedented. So we got that going for us...

Edited January 3, 2009 by Cubswin11

[dew1679666265]

None of that even matters. AARON MILES DOES NOT HAVE THE PHYSICAL TOOLS TO BE ANY GOOD AT ALL WHATSOEVER. That's what matters. The guy is shorter than David Eckstein, and he can't even get hit by a pitch or be obnoxious like Eckstein. A new swing isn't going to jack crap for him because he's a midget with no muscle tone.

 

He's a switch-hitting, less good, more expensive version of Ryan Theriot.

 

But he's Gritty?

 

He might be grittier than Theriot. Especially since he's not as good as Theriot.

We easily have the grittiest team in the majors this year, our grit fact at SS/2B with Theriot/Fontenot/Miles is unprecedented. So we got that going for us...

 

They ought to just give us the trophy now.

[haltz]

He's not that gritty. Gritty ballplayers don't pose and strut after game-winning grand slams. Or hit grand slams at all for that matter.

[TheDude]

Umm, stating that Howry was the 8th inning guy last season is not an opinion, it's a lie.

I was out of town for a few days, so this response is way late, but I'm not a huge fan being called a liar, especially when it takes minimal effort on your part to actually review some stats. A lie implies malicious intent, which in context of a baseball discussion is stupid.

 

Here is Howry's appearances by inning 2008:

6th inning 6

7th inning 17

8th inning 39

9th inning 17

Ext inning 5

 

To be fair, Marmol was also an 8th inning guy more than 7th inning overall.

6th inning 1

7th inning 20

8th inning 51

9th inning 26

Ext inning 5

 

Obviously calling Howry an 8th inning guy in 2008 is not misinformation, and it's certainly not a lie. The reality is, to start the season he was the 8th inning man. At times he had pitched himself out of that role, and Marmol filled it. Marmol became overworked as Howry struggled, and Howry stepped back in it for a time. Both guys closed at times in Wood's absence.

 

Roles were not cut and dry either way, and I was aware it would be a tough sell to present it definitively. This is why I suggested evaluating the pens as a 3-man 7-9 unit (which you ignored in response).

 

The bottom line, as I had previously stated, is that Gregg, Marmol, and Samardzija will be a slight downgrade from Howry, Marmol, and Wood, irrespective of who fills what role in the 7-9 pen.

[17 Seconds]

Okay now how about you list how many times Howry pitched the 8th inning when the team had a lead and the game was close, and how many times Marmol did. THose numbers are obviously skewed since Howry probably pitched a lot of 8th innings in games that weren't close or where the Cubs were losing.

 

When you said he was the 8th inning guy, it was pretty clear you were implying he was the setup man, which he was not Marmol was.

 

Either way, the point was that you had Marmol replacing Wood but then for some reason had Gregg replacing Howry instead of Marmol, which is obviously wrong. Now you're getting into semantics to try and get out of it. Whatever.

[Illini Iceman]

I think about 80% of the posts in transactions over the last 72 hours are from dextermorgan or dew. Every time I open up a thread it is like groundhog's day.

[17 Seconds]

Great post.

[Monco]

There has seemed to be too many times when Lou would use 3 guys in the eighth. That's why they carry 12-13 pitchers. I'm not even referring to times when a guys getting hit. I'm talking about when a righty comes in faces one guy,gets him out and gets pulled for another righty.

[Illini Iceman]

Great post.

 

I just knew you couldn't resist.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Maybe those who feel that neither Mike Fontenot nor Aaron Miles have what it takes to be full time starters should take a look back at DeRosas stats before he was given the opportunity to be a full time player by the Rangers in '06. Im not saying that Miles or Fontenot will duplicate what DeRosa gave us last year, but they deserve a chance. We have a good enough offense to make up for if not, and if wors comes to worse, we have a Johnson/Fukudome and Miles/Fontenot at the 7 and 8 spots which is sill better than anything else in the division.

[Monco]

Maybe those who feel that neither Mike Fontenot nor Aaron Miles have what it takes to be full time starters should take a look back at DeRosas stats before he was given the opportunity to be a full time player by the Rangers in '06. Im not saying that Miles or Fontenot will duplicate what DeRosa gave us last year, but they deserve a chance. We have a good enough offense to make up for if not, and if wors comes to worse, we have a Johnson/Fukudome and Miles/Fontenot at the 7 and 8 spots which is sill better than anything else in the division.

 

Miles has been averaging about 400 at bats a year for the last 5. 20 doubles is his career high. DeRosa had 40 in 2006 with the Rangers. People are suggesting that DeRosa will have a dropoff because of his age,DeRosa was born Feb. 1975 Miles Dec. 1976.

[17 Seconds]

Maybe those who feel that neither Mike Fontenot nor Aaron Miles have what it takes to be full time starters should take a look back at DeRosas stats before he was given the opportunity to be a full time player by the Rangers in '06. Im not saying that Miles or Fontenot will duplicate what DeRosa gave us last year, but they deserve a chance. We have a good enough offense to make up for if not, and if wors comes to worse, we have a Johnson/Fukudome and Miles/Fontenot at the 7 and 8 spots which is sill better than anything else in the division.

 

Do we really know that our offense is good enough?

[dew1679666265]

I think about 80% of the posts in transactions over the last 72 hours are from dextermorgan or dew. Every time I open up a thread it is like groundhog's day.

 

Would you prefer that I pull a Vance and post in only emoticons for a while? :wink:

 

I'm actually probably going to tone it down a bit. Since the Titans clinched the #1 seed a few weeks ago and the Vols didn't have a bowl game, I've had to expend my energy into Hendry's recent bad moves.

 

Now, though, I'll be able to fret and worry about Saturday's playoff game for the Titans - which will distract me from the Transactions thread for a while. :D

[dew1679666265]

Maybe those who feel that neither Mike Fontenot nor Aaron Miles have what it takes to be full time starters should take a look back at DeRosas stats before he was given the opportunity to be a full time player by the Rangers in '06. Im not saying that Miles or Fontenot will duplicate what DeRosa gave us last year, but they deserve a chance. We have a good enough offense to make up for if not, and if wors comes to worse, we have a Johnson/Fukudome and Miles/Fontenot at the 7 and 8 spots which is sill better than anything else in the division.

 

I've looked back at DeRo's stats. As I said in another thread, however, is that DeRosa's initial career year came in perfect correlation with a timing tweak (a step) in his swing implemented by Jaramillo at Texas.

 

DeRo made the change, had a career year and said it was primarily due to the tweak. Miles, on the other hand, has made no major adjustment that I know of. His career year (which still produced an OPS+ under 100) was more likely a fluke than DeRo's.

 

Also, in Miles' career year, he still couldn't even manage a .400 slugging. DeRosa, however, slugged .456 that year.

[davearm2]

I think about 80% of the posts in transactions over the last 72 hours are from dextermorgan or dew. Every time I open up a thread it is like groundhog's day.

 

Would you prefer that I pull a Vance and post in only emoticons for a while? :wink:

 

I'm actually probably going to tone it down a bit. Since the Titans clinched the #1 seed a few weeks ago and the Vols didn't have a bowl game, I've had to expend my energy into Hendry's recent bad moves.

 

Now, though, I'll be able to fret and worry about Saturday's playoff game for the Titans - which will distract me from the Transactions thread for a while. :D

Before you go I'm hoping you could clarify how many games you think Bradley will miss. Haven't seen you comment on that much. ;)