Derosa to Indians for Jeff Stevens, Chris Archer, John Gaub

[Guest]

you do it every time you post. I was not responding so much as to your last post but nearly all of your posts in general...not just to me but to everyone. the first time someone makes an opinion opposite of yours you start poking at them personally. I call you on it, let it go for a while & then I end up calling you on it after it builds up for a while which is what happened here. We all have our own opinions & should be able to express them without the personal garbage. I'm quite confident I'm not the only one that is very tired of your personal vents.

 

show me where i got personal. the only one who got personal was you.

 

also show me how saying howry was the 8th inning guy is an opinion.

 

if you want to talk to me, then don't run away after you've been proved wrong and make excuses as to why you're leaving.... only to come back the next day to take shots at me

 

as for other people being tired of it, whatever. at least i'm not the board joke

I'd like both of you to put the other on ignore.

 

This is not a request.

[Peoriaman]

Clearly, Hendry had to shave payroll in order to get Bradley. Miles gives us 2+ million PLUS another year. We were going to lose DeRosa after this year or probably pay him even more. It also got us more left handed and probably better defense.

 

Money does matter. The Trib is bankrupt.

[dew1679666265]

Clearly, Hendry had to shave payroll in order to get Bradley. Miles gives us 2+ million PLUS another year. We were going to lose DeRosa after this year or probably pay him even more. It also got us more left handed and probably better defense.

 

Money does matter. The Trib is bankrupt.

 

Then don't get Bradley. If you have to downgrade in one spot to moderately upgrade in another, it's not worth it.

 

Pursue a Hermida or Scott or Sammy Sosa, but don't trade a valuable chip in order to moderately upgrade.

[JeffH]

Clearly, Hendry had to shave payroll in order to get Bradley. Miles gives us 2+ million PLUS another year. We were going to lose DeRosa after this year or probably pay him even more. It also got us more left handed and probably better defense.

 

Money does matter. The Trib is bankrupt.

 

Then don't get Bradley. If you have to downgrade in one spot to moderately upgrade in another, it's not worth it.

 

Pursue a Hermida or Scott or Sammy Sosa, but don't trade a valuable chip in order to moderately upgrade.

 

I'm hopeful that we can acquire Mark Teahen from the Royals. We could use the depth that he would provide, and he would fill out the bench nicely.

 

Gathright-Johnson-Miles-Teahen-Bako

[dew1679666265]

Clearly, Hendry had to shave payroll in order to get Bradley. Miles gives us 2+ million PLUS another year. We were going to lose DeRosa after this year or probably pay him even more. It also got us more left handed and probably better defense.

 

Money does matter. The Trib is bankrupt.

 

Then don't get Bradley. If you have to downgrade in one spot to moderately upgrade in another, it's not worth it.

 

Pursue a Hermida or Scott or Sammy Sosa, but don't trade a valuable chip in order to moderately upgrade.

 

I'm hopeful that we can acquire Mark Teahen from the Royals. We could use the depth that he would provide, and he would fill out the bench nicely.

 

Gathright-Johnson-Miles-Teahen-Bako

 

I'd much rather we pursue Dunn than Bradley instead of getting Teahen as well.

[RedFlash]

It's a reason, but not a good one. If Hendry doesn't acquire Peavy - or someone similar - the DeRosa trade was a bad deal.

 

I wouldn't call it a "bad deal" if he doesn't acquire Peavy, but I would call it a "unnecessary move."

 

It wouldn't simply be unnecessary, though. It's a move that makes us worse. Simply signing Aaron Miles with DeRosa still here would've been unnecessary. Trading DeRo and not greatly upgrading elsewhere is bad.

 

I can't disagree, as I much rather have had the draft picks then the prospects, seeing as DeRosa would likely been a Type B FA, with a chance to be a Type A. With the off chance (and HIGHLY unlikely) and wishful thinking the Cubs could land Peavy and Roberts (I know I laugh at the scenerio also, but hey one can dream) plus Bradley and the Cubs clearly are much improved after trading DeRosa.

 

With that said, I think the Cubs have to trade for Peavy to justify the DeRosa trade.

[RedFlash]

I'd much rather we pursue Dunn than Bradley instead of getting Teahen as well.

 

Apparently Hendry/Piniella don't share your opinion. To me Dunn was a "backup" in case the Cubs couldn't sign Bradley.

[17 Seconds]

I'd much rather we pursue Dunn than Bradley instead of getting Teahen as well.

 

Apparently Hendry/Piniella don't share your opinion. To me Dunn was a "backup" in case the Cubs couldn't sign Bradley.

 

i think he was much lower on the list than that... if he was even on the list at all.

[dew1679666265]

It's a reason, but not a good one. If Hendry doesn't acquire Peavy - or someone similar - the DeRosa trade was a bad deal.

 

I wouldn't call it a "bad deal" if he doesn't acquire Peavy, but I would call it a "unnecessary move."

 

It wouldn't simply be unnecessary, though. It's a move that makes us worse. Simply signing Aaron Miles with DeRosa still here would've been unnecessary. Trading DeRo and not greatly upgrading elsewhere is bad.

 

I can't disagree, as I much rather have had the draft picks then the prospects, seeing as DeRosa would likely been a Type B FA, with a chance to be a Type A. With the off chance (and HIGHLY unlikely) and wishful thinking the Cubs could land Peavy and Roberts (I know I laugh at the scenerio also, but hey one can dream) plus Bradley and the Cubs clearly are much improved after trading DeRosa.

 

With that said, I think the Cubs have to trade for Peavy to justify the DeRosa trade.

 

If we could get Roberts without giving up the moon, the DeRosa trade could be a good to great one. Like you said, though, that's not happening.

 

If we acquire Bradley and not Peavy, then this was a bad trade at best. If we get Peavy, then I'm ok with it.

[dew1679666265]

I'd much rather we pursue Dunn than Bradley instead of getting Teahen as well.

 

Apparently Hendry/Piniella don't share your opinion. To me Dunn was a "backup" in case the Cubs couldn't sign Bradley.

 

i think he was much lower on the list than that... if he was even on the list at all.

 

I think he was on the list, and he might have been top two (there were rumors we were interested in him and I didn't hear rumors about any other RF).

 

He wasn't likely though.

[RedFlash]

If we could get Roberts without giving up the moon, the DeRosa trade could be a good to great one. Like you said, though, that's not happening.

 

If we acquire Bradley and not Peavy, then this was a bad trade at best. If we get Peavy, then I'm ok with it.

 

This I can agree with, wholeheartedly.

[Illini Iceman]

Clearly, Hendry had to shave payroll in order to get Bradley. Miles gives us 2+ million PLUS another year. We were going to lose DeRosa after this year or probably pay him even more. It also got us more left handed and probably better defense.

 

Money does matter. The Trib is bankrupt.

 

Then don't get Bradley. If you have to downgrade in one spot to moderately upgrade in another, it's not worth it.

 

Pursue a Hermida or Scott or Sammy Sosa, but don't trade a valuable chip in order to moderately upgrade.

 

Obviously he likes Fontenot and feels better trading DeRosa and taking a chance on Fontenot being able to make the leap from backup to starter than he feels about the chances of Fukudome or Hoff being able to put up respectable numbers in RF.

 

I hope this all leads to Peavy, but even if it really is just a money thing I agree with the move. I would rather have Fontenot / Bradley / Fukudome at 2B/RF/CF than the alternative of DeRosa / Fukudome / Pie. It is just a bit of a shock to the system if that is the way it turns out because the Cubs have not done anything other than add payroll for the last couple years so a move like the DeRosa trade primarily to dump salary takes some getting used to.

[17 Seconds]

Clearly, Hendry had to shave payroll in order to get Bradley. Miles gives us 2+ million PLUS another year. We were going to lose DeRosa after this year or probably pay him even more. It also got us more left handed and probably better defense.

 

Money does matter. The Trib is bankrupt.

 

Then don't get Bradley. If you have to downgrade in one spot to moderately upgrade in another, it's not worth it.

 

Pursue a Hermida or Scott or Sammy Sosa, but don't trade a valuable chip in order to moderately upgrade.

 

Obviously he likes Fontenot and feels better trading DeRosa and taking a chance on Fontenot being able to make the leap from backup to starter than he feels about the chances of Fukudome or Hoff being able to put up respectable numbers in RF.

 

I hope this all leads to Peavy, but even if it really is just a money thing I agree with the move. I would rather have Fontenot / Bradley / Fukudome at 2B/RF/CF than the alternative of DeRosa / Fukudome / Pie. It is just a bit of a shock to the system if that is the way it turns out because the Cubs have not done anything other than add payroll for the last couple years so a move like the DeRosa trade primarily to dump salary takes some getting used to.

 

well they've added payroll this year as well

[dew1679666265]

Clearly, Hendry had to shave payroll in order to get Bradley. Miles gives us 2+ million PLUS another year. We were going to lose DeRosa after this year or probably pay him even more. It also got us more left handed and probably better defense.

 

Money does matter. The Trib is bankrupt.

 

Then don't get Bradley. If you have to downgrade in one spot to moderately upgrade in another, it's not worth it.

 

Pursue a Hermida or Scott or Sammy Sosa, but don't trade a valuable chip in order to moderately upgrade.

 

Obviously he likes Fontenot and feels better trading DeRosa and taking a chance on Fontenot being able to make the leap from backup to starter than he feels about the chances of Fukudome or Hoff being able to put up respectable numbers in RF.

 

And I disagree with him. I think it's a bad move.

 

I hope this all leads to Peavy, but even if it really is just a money thing I agree with the move. I would rather have Fontenot / Bradley / Fukudome at 2B/RF/CF than the alternative of DeRosa / Fukudome / Pie. It is just a bit of a shock to the system if that is the way it turns out because the Cubs have not done anything other than add payroll for the last couple years so a move like the DeRosa trade primarily to dump salary takes some getting used to.

 

It's not just Fontenot/Bradley/Fukudome, though. It's Fontenot/Bradley, Hoffpauir, Reed, Gathright/Fukudome.

 

Unless we get very lucky, Bradley is extremely unlikely to play 100 games. That's a lot of ABs DeRosa could have had that Hoff/Reed/Gathright will get.

Edited January 1, 2009 by dew

[17 Seconds]

Clearly, Hendry had to shave payroll in order to get Bradley. Miles gives us 2+ million PLUS another year. We were going to lose DeRosa after this year or probably pay him even more. It also got us more left handed and probably better defense.

 

Money does matter. The Trib is bankrupt.

 

Then don't get Bradley. If you have to downgrade in one spot to moderately upgrade in another, it's not worth it.

 

Pursue a Hermida or Scott or Sammy Sosa, but don't trade a valuable chip in order to moderately upgrade.

 

Obviously he likes Fontenot and feels better trading DeRosa and taking a chance on Fontenot being able to make the leap from backup to starter than he feels about the chances of Fukudome or Hoff being able to put up respectable numbers in RF.[/quote

 

And I disagree with him. I think it's a bad move.

 

I hope this all leads to Peavy, but even if it really is just a money thing I agree with the move. I would rather have Fontenot / Bradley / Fukudome at 2B/RF/CF than the alternative of DeRosa / Fukudome / Pie. It is just a bit of a shock to the system if that is the way it turns out because the Cubs have not done anything other than add payroll for the last couple years so a move like the DeRosa trade primarily to dump salary takes some getting used to.

 

It's not just Fontenot/Bradley/Fukudome, though. It's Fontenot/Bradley, Hoffpauir, Reed, Gathright/Fukudome.

 

Unless we get very lucky, Bradley is extremely unlikely to play 100 games. That's a lot of ABs DeRosa could have had that Hoff/Reed/Gathright will get.

 

Well it's at bats that Fontenot would have gotten since DeRosa would have always been in there, but your point remains

[Mike Aller]

I'm confused here. If you needed to lose the payroll to get Bradley, how was this a bad deal?

 

You're losing DeRosa and getting Bradley. You don't seriously overvalue DeRosa that much, do you you?

[dew1679666265]

Clearly, Hendry had to shave payroll in order to get Bradley. Miles gives us 2+ million PLUS another year. We were going to lose DeRosa after this year or probably pay him even more. It also got us more left handed and probably better defense.

 

Money does matter. The Trib is bankrupt.

 

Then don't get Bradley. If you have to downgrade in one spot to moderately upgrade in another, it's not worth it.

 

Pursue a Hermida or Scott or Sammy Sosa, but don't trade a valuable chip in order to moderately upgrade.

 

Obviously he likes Fontenot and feels better trading DeRosa and taking a chance on Fontenot being able to make the leap from backup to starter than he feels about the chances of Fukudome or Hoff being able to put up respectable numbers in RF.[/quote

 

And I disagree with him. I think it's a bad move.

 

I hope this all leads to Peavy, but even if it really is just a money thing I agree with the move. I would rather have Fontenot / Bradley / Fukudome at 2B/RF/CF than the alternative of DeRosa / Fukudome / Pie. It is just a bit of a shock to the system if that is the way it turns out because the Cubs have not done anything other than add payroll for the last couple years so a move like the DeRosa trade primarily to dump salary takes some getting used to.

 

It's not just Fontenot/Bradley/Fukudome, though. It's Fontenot/Bradley, Hoffpauir, Reed, Gathright/Fukudome.

 

Unless we get very lucky, Bradley is extremely unlikely to play 100 games. That's a lot of ABs DeRosa could have had that Hoff/Reed/Gathright will get.

 

Well it's at bats that Fontenot would have gotten since DeRosa would have always been in there, but your point remains

 

That's a good point. Thanks for clarifying.

[Illini Iceman]

Clearly, Hendry had to shave payroll in order to get Bradley. Miles gives us 2+ million PLUS another year. We were going to lose DeRosa after this year or probably pay him even more. It also got us more left handed and probably better defense.

 

Money does matter. The Trib is bankrupt.

 

Then don't get Bradley. If you have to downgrade in one spot to moderately upgrade in another, it's not worth it.

 

Pursue a Hermida or Scott or Sammy Sosa, but don't trade a valuable chip in order to moderately upgrade.

 

Obviously he likes Fontenot and feels better trading DeRosa and taking a chance on Fontenot being able to make the leap from backup to starter than he feels about the chances of Fukudome or Hoff being able to put up respectable numbers in RF.

 

I hope this all leads to Peavy, but even if it really is just a money thing I agree with the move. I would rather have Fontenot / Bradley / Fukudome at 2B/RF/CF than the alternative of DeRosa / Fukudome / Pie. It is just a bit of a shock to the system if that is the way it turns out because the Cubs have not done anything other than add payroll for the last couple years so a move like the DeRosa trade primarily to dump salary takes some getting used to.

 

well they've added payroll this year as well

 

True, but I guess what I mean is that they haven't needed to make any corresponding moves in previous years to reduce salary other than to get rid of guys no one wants (like Marquis this year). The DeRosa move would not have been made from a perspective of value for value if the Cubs didn't need to clear payroll so it stings a bit more than dumping a guy like Marquis to whoever will take him. If it really comes down to Vizcaino, 3 years of Bradley and the prospects for Marquis and 1 year of DeRosa I can still live with the overall tradeoff, however.

[dew1679666265]

I'm confused here. If you needed to lose the payroll to get Bradley, how was this a bad deal?

 

You're losing DeRosa and getting Bradley. You don't seriously overvalue DeRosa that much, do you you?

 

It's an upgrade, but if we're that cash strapped is it worth it? If we're now going to be playing a whole lot of Aaron Miles, Micah Hoffpauir and Joey Gathright have we really improved that much?

 

Bradley's injured far too often for this to be a big improvement.

[17 Seconds]

I'm confused here. If you needed to lose the payroll to get Bradley, how was this a bad deal?

 

You're losing DeRosa and getting Bradley. You don't seriously overvalue DeRosa that much, do you you?

 

Entertaining the thought that a full season of DeRosa is more valuable than a half season (of less) of Bradley means we're overvaluing him?

[dew1679666265]

I'm confused here. If you needed to lose the payroll to get Bradley, how was this a bad deal?

 

You're losing DeRosa and getting Bradley. You don't seriously overvalue DeRosa that much, do you you?

 

Entertaining the thought that a full season of DeRosa is more valuable than a half season (of less) of Bradley means we're overvaluing him?

 

Exactly. If we knew we could get 120 games - maybe even just 100 - from Bradley, I'd be ok with this. But we're very unlikely to.

[Mike Aller]

I'm confused here. If you needed to lose the payroll to get Bradley, how was this a bad deal?

 

You're losing DeRosa and getting Bradley. You don't seriously overvalue DeRosa that much, do you you?

 

Entertaining the thought that a full season of DeRosa is more valuable than a half season (of less) of Bradley means we're overvaluing him?

So everyone is basing it off of injury risk? I understand that you have to be concerned, especially with his history, but come on, Bradley is a hell of a player when healthy. Quit being typical glass half empty Cubs fans.

[CubColtPacer]

Clearly, Hendry had to shave payroll in order to get Bradley. Miles gives us 2+ million PLUS another year. We were going to lose DeRosa after this year or probably pay him even more. It also got us more left handed and probably better defense.

 

Money does matter. The Trib is bankrupt.

 

Then don't get Bradley. If you have to downgrade in one spot to moderately upgrade in another, it's not worth it.

 

Pursue a Hermida or Scott or Sammy Sosa, but don't trade a valuable chip in order to moderately upgrade.

 

Obviously he likes Fontenot and feels better trading DeRosa and taking a chance on Fontenot being able to make the leap from backup to starter than he feels about the chances of Fukudome or Hoff being able to put up respectable numbers in RF.

 

I hope this all leads to Peavy, but even if it really is just a money thing I agree with the move. I would rather have Fontenot / Bradley / Fukudome at 2B/RF/CF than the alternative of DeRosa / Fukudome / Pie. It is just a bit of a shock to the system if that is the way it turns out because the Cubs have not done anything other than add payroll for the last couple years so a move like the DeRosa trade primarily to dump salary takes some getting used to.

 

That's not the choice the Cubs would have likely gone with. The two options would have either been:

 

Fontenot at 2nd, DeRosa at RF, Fukudome in CF

or

Fontenot at 2nd, Bradley+Johnson in RF (Johnson for the 40-80 games that Bradley doesn't play, Fukudome in CF

 

Would you rather have DeRosa for 140 games in RF and Marquis in the 5th spot or Bradley for 100, Vizcaino in the bullpen, and 3 decent pitching prospects? Personally I think the Cubs are better off with the former. If the Cubs get another upgrade other than Bradley it makes more sense. But is Bradley really a more valuable RF than DeRosa this year?

 

Plus if you kept DeRosa you could have kept an extra OF bat for the bench that could hit instead of having to pay Miles to be a backup IF (because DeRosa would essentially be your 2nd backup IF even while starting in the OF).

 

So with DeRosa you have about the same offense over the course of the year, a better starting rotation, a better bench, and possibly a better bullpen (because it could be argued that Vizcaino hurts the pen more than helps it). Trading him should only have been done to get talent that could be used to upgrade somewhere else. Removing DeRosa's salary isn't much of a help because DeRosa was being underpaid so much.

[Illini Iceman]

I'm confused here. If you needed to lose the payroll to get Bradley, how was this a bad deal?

 

You're losing DeRosa and getting Bradley. You don't seriously overvalue DeRosa that much, do you you?

 

Entertaining the thought that a full season of DeRosa is more valuable than a half season (of less) of Bradley means we're overvaluing him?

So everyone is basing it off of injury risk? I understand that you have to be concerned, especially with his history, but come on, Bradley is a hell of a player when healthy. Quit being typical glass half empty Cubs fans.

 

Now we are only assuming a half season OR LESS from Bradley? That seems a bit pessimistic. I have also seen people saying that we will be lucky if we get as many innings out of Harden in '08 as we did in '09. Worst case scenarios are pretty popular around here these days.

[dew1679666265]

I'm confused here. If you needed to lose the payroll to get Bradley, how was this a bad deal?

 

You're losing DeRosa and getting Bradley. You don't seriously overvalue DeRosa that much, do you you?

 

Entertaining the thought that a full season of DeRosa is more valuable than a half season (of less) of Bradley means we're overvaluing him?

So everyone is basing it off of injury risk? I understand that you have to be concerned, especially with his history, but come on, Bradley is a hell of a player when healthy. Quit being typical glass half empty Cubs fans.

 

It's not glass half empty. It's the fact that he hasn't played 100 games in the field since 2004.

 

I'd say the same thing if the Cards, Yankees or Braves were signing him.