Derosa to Indians for Jeff Stevens, Chris Archer, John Gaub

[cubsfan26]

Gregg does replace Wood, and yes it's a downgrade but not a HUGE downgrade. I think Vizcaino would be a upgrade over what Howry did last year. Plus I still think Wuertz could be better if he's here, and think Guzman will be good if healthy.

 

Howry had an ERA+ of 84 last year with a WHIP of 1.458. Vizcaino posted an 87 ERA+ and a 1.457 WHIP. Howry's been better most other years.

 

I don't see Vizcaino being an upgrade over Howry.

 

I think Vizcaino struggles had to do with him being hurt last year. He also said he wasn't used enough late in the year, which caused his pitches not to stay sharp. If you look just at Vizcaino stats from June though August(pitched just two games in April before going on DL), his numbers aren't nearly as bad(1-0,4.21 era, 36 IP,39 SO, 9 BB, 226 average against). Howry had a reason why he was bad last year because his stuff dropped off alot compared to years past. While Vizcaino stuff was still pretty glld last year when healthy, and just had a bad year despite his stuff still being solid. Which happens to middle relievers all of the time, and they bounce back. For Howry to bounce back next year he needs his stuff to come back or figure out another way to get hitters out.

[mcgoobs]

I think this has been mentioned (can't recall where among the four various transaction threads that are being regularly updated now), but any talk about how this team that we have is worse than the one we finished the season with should come with the caveat that even if Hendry returned the same team on paper, this team should project to do worse. The regression that should have been expected from Dempster, Harden, the very productive Johnson/Edmonds platoon, DeRosa, Fontenot, and the injuries that will happen but that we can't predict likely would have taken us below 97 wins anyways. The only positions where we could have predicted better performance are marginal compared to the dropoffs listed: having Soriano play more than 109 games, having Lee hit for a shade more power. Whatever moves Hendry is making should be viewed with the context that the team from last year would have had production dropoffs from at least 2 positions and 2 starting pitchers.

 

The saving grace in all this is that the NL Central looks weak next year with the Brewers losing their two best starting pitchers so it wouldn't be surprising to see a repeat of 2007 when <90 wins yields a division crown.

 

FYI in the prediction for better performance in 2009 I'm leaving out Fukudome just because he's too much of a wildcard given the lack of MLB history there.

[wrigley23]

I don't understand why you keep saying this. Did you not follow the Cubs last year, or are you just lying and hoping we don't notice? Marmol was the 8th inning guy last season.

 

why are you so hateful all of the time? Were you beaten as a child or are you still being beaten? Why can't we come onto the message board & state our opinions without all of the biting comments all of the time? This is a message board talking about games...not financial planning, teaching or engineering. Is it really worth the anger? I disagree w/ nearly everything that you ever say, but it doesn't make either one of us right. The only thing wrong is when someone makes it personal against the other. At the end of the day, this is no more important than taking out the garbage. To be a message board hero/thread winner is the equivalent of winning a grade school straw pole popularity contest.

[17 Seconds]

I don't understand why you keep saying this. Did you not follow the Cubs last year, or are you just lying and hoping we don't notice? Marmol was the 8th inning guy last season.

 

why are you so hateful all of the time? Were you beaten as a child or are you still being beaten? Why can't we come onto the message board & state our opinions without all of the biting comments all of the time? This is a message board talking about games...not financial planning, teaching or engineering. Is it really worth the anger? I disagree w/ nearly everything that you ever say, but it doesn't make either one of us right. The only thing wrong is when someone makes it personal against the other. At the end of the day, this is no more important than taking out the garbage. To be a message board hero/thread winner is the equivalent of winning a grade school straw pole popularity contest.

 

Umm, stating that Howry was the 8th inning guy last season is not an opinion, it's a lie.

 

And I like how you leave the board when you've been beaten down in baseball arguments because you "have a wife and kids", yet you can come back and respond to me on an unrelated subject.

 

How about leave me alone

[imb]

how in the world can you complain about "making it personal" after you've just asked if the guy was beaten as a child

 

wrigley23, you are a bad poster

[USSoccer]

Stop playing Message Board Hero, IMB.

 

Some of us have jobs and robble

[E.J.]

Let's keep it civil guys.

[17 Seconds]

yes good point. also i don't see how i made anything personal

[wrigley23]

you do it every time you post. I was not responding so much as to your last post but nearly all of your posts in general...not just to me but to everyone. the first time someone makes an opinion opposite of yours you start poking at them personally. I call you on it, let it go for a while & then I end up calling you on it after it builds up for a while which is what happened here. We all have our own opinions & should be able to express them without the personal garbage. I'm quite confident I'm not the only one that is very tired of your personal vents.

[17 Seconds]

you do it every time you post. I was not responding so much as to your last post but nearly all of your posts in general...not just to me but to everyone. the first time someone makes an opinion opposite of yours you start poking at them personally. I call you on it, let it go for a while & then I end up calling you on it after it builds up for a while which is what happened here. We all have our own opinions & should be able to express them without the personal garbage. I'm quite confident I'm not the only one that is very tired of your personal vents.

 

show me where i got personal. the only one who got personal was you.

 

also show me how saying howry was the 8th inning guy is an opinion.

 

if you want to talk to me, then don't run away after you've been proved wrong and make excuses as to why you're leaving.... only to come back the next day to take shots at me

 

as for other people being tired of it, whatever. at least i'm not the board joke

[dew1679666265]

Gregg does replace Wood, and yes it's a downgrade but not a HUGE downgrade. I think Vizcaino would be a upgrade over what Howry did last year. Plus I still think Wuertz could be better if he's here, and think Guzman will be good if healthy.

 

Howry had an ERA+ of 84 last year with a WHIP of 1.458. Vizcaino posted an 87 ERA+ and a 1.457 WHIP. Howry's been better most other years.

 

I don't see Vizcaino being an upgrade over Howry.

 

I think Vizcaino struggles had to do with him being hurt last year. He also said he wasn't used enough late in the year, which caused his pitches not to stay sharp. If you look just at Vizcaino stats from June though August(pitched just two games in April before going on DL), his numbers aren't nearly as bad(1-0,4.21 era, 36 IP,39 SO, 9 BB, 226 average against). Howry had a reason why he was bad last year because his stuff dropped off alot compared to years past. While Vizcaino stuff was still pretty glld last year when healthy, and just had a bad year despite his stuff still being solid. Which happens to middle relievers all of the time, and they bounce back. For Howry to bounce back next year he needs his stuff to come back or figure out another way to get hitters out.

 

It didn't occur to me that he was hurt, but his peripherals were similar last year to the rest of his career. Considering he's now mid 30s, he may be regressing as well. I hope you're right, but I don't think it's a safe bet.

[Derwood]

old news, but the Columbus Dispatch confirmed that DeRosa will be the full time 3B and bat 2nd. Sure wish the Cubs had batted him 2nd....

[E.J.]

Last warning. Knock it off. Send PM's if you want to keep up this battle.

[dew1679666265]

old news, but the Columbus Dispatch confirmed that DeRosa will be the full time 3B and bat 2nd. Sure wish the Cubs had batted him 2nd....

 

Unless we end up with Peavy, I sure wish the Cubs hadn't traded DeRosa.

[17 Seconds]

Last warning. Knock it off. Send PM's if you want to keep up this battle.

 

my PMs don't work y0

[erik316wttn]

old news, but the Columbus Dispatch confirmed that DeRosa will be the full time 3B and bat 2nd. Sure wish the Cubs had batted him 2nd....

 

Unless we end up with Peavy, I sure wish the Cubs hadn't traded DeRosa.

 

Seconded. There was no reason to get rid of DeRo unless a Peavy trade was imminent.

[17 Seconds]

old news, but the Columbus Dispatch confirmed that DeRosa will be the full time 3B and bat 2nd. Sure wish the Cubs had batted him 2nd....

 

Unless we end up with Peavy, I sure wish the Cubs hadn't traded DeRosa.

 

Seconded. There was no reason to get rid of DeRo unless a Peavy trade was imminent.

 

yea there is. he had to trade peavy to afford bradley. you might not like that, but there was a reason for it.

[anabiono]

old news, but the Columbus Dispatch confirmed that DeRosa will be the full time 3B and bat 2nd. Sure wish the Cubs had batted him 2nd....

 

Unless we end up with Peavy, I sure wish the Cubs hadn't traded DeRosa.

 

Seconded. There was no reason to get rid of DeRo unless a Peavy trade was imminent.

 

thirded

 

if we don't get peavy...then why in the hell didn't we just go after hermida instead of bradley

 

i am not going to get mad yet, but the coals are certainly starting to warm

[dew1679666265]

old news, but the Columbus Dispatch confirmed that DeRosa will be the full time 3B and bat 2nd. Sure wish the Cubs had batted him 2nd....

 

Unless we end up with Peavy, I sure wish the Cubs hadn't traded DeRosa.

 

Seconded. There was no reason to get rid of DeRo unless a Peavy trade was imminent.

 

yea there is. he had to trade peavy to afford bradley. you might not like that, but there was a reason for it.

 

There was no good reason to trade DeRo unless a Peavy trade was extremely likely/imminent.

[Peoriaman]

old news, but the Columbus Dispatch confirmed that DeRosa will be the full time 3B and bat 2nd. Sure wish the Cubs had batted him 2nd....

 

Unless we end up with Peavy, I sure wish the Cubs hadn't traded DeRosa.

 

Seconded. There was no reason to get rid of DeRo unless a Peavy trade was imminent.

 

yea there is. he had to trade peavy to afford bradley. you might not like that, but there was a reason for it.

 

There was no good reason to trade DeRo unless a Peavy trade was extremely likely/imminent.

 

 

Yes there is. Money

[17 Seconds]

old news, but the Columbus Dispatch confirmed that DeRosa will be the full time 3B and bat 2nd. Sure wish the Cubs had batted him 2nd....

 

Unless we end up with Peavy, I sure wish the Cubs hadn't traded DeRosa.

 

Seconded. There was no reason to get rid of DeRo unless a Peavy trade was imminent.

 

yea there is. he had to trade peavy to afford bradley. you might not like that, but there was a reason for it.

 

There was no good reason to trade DeRo unless a Peavy trade was extremely likely/imminent.

 

like i said, you ight not agree with the reason, but there was one. it's not like hendry jusat said "i feel like dumping derosa today. im gonna do it". he did it because he had to to get what he wanted.

[dew1679666265]

old news, but the Columbus Dispatch confirmed that DeRosa will be the full time 3B and bat 2nd. Sure wish the Cubs had batted him 2nd....

 

Unless we end up with Peavy, I sure wish the Cubs hadn't traded DeRosa.

 

Seconded. There was no reason to get rid of DeRo unless a Peavy trade was imminent.

 

yea there is. he had to trade peavy to afford bradley. you might not like that, but there was a reason for it.

 

There was no good reason to trade DeRo unless a Peavy trade was extremely likely/imminent.

 

 

Yes there is. Money

 

What I'm trying to say is that this deal is not good - it is in fact very, very bad - if we don't acquire Peavy. Simply bringing in Bradley is not enough to make the DeRosa deal a good one.

 

If Hendry made the deal because he had to shave payroll, then that's a completely different matter altogether.

[dew1679666265]

old news, but the Columbus Dispatch confirmed that DeRosa will be the full time 3B and bat 2nd. Sure wish the Cubs had batted him 2nd....

 

Unless we end up with Peavy, I sure wish the Cubs hadn't traded DeRosa.

 

Seconded. There was no reason to get rid of DeRo unless a Peavy trade was imminent.

 

yea there is. he had to trade peavy to afford bradley. you might not like that, but there was a reason for it.

 

There was no good reason to trade DeRo unless a Peavy trade was extremely likely/imminent.

 

like i said, you ight not agree with the reason, but there was one. it's not like hendry jusat said "i feel like dumping derosa today. im gonna do it". he did it because he had to to get what he wanted.

 

It's a reason, but not a good one. If Hendry doesn't acquire Peavy - or someone similar - the DeRosa trade was a bad deal.

[RedFlash]

It's a reason, but not a good one. If Hendry doesn't acquire Peavy - or someone similar - the DeRosa trade was a bad deal.

 

I wouldn't call it a "bad deal" if he doesn't acquire Peavy, but I would call it a "unnecessary move."

[dew1679666265]

It's a reason, but not a good one. If Hendry doesn't acquire Peavy - or someone similar - the DeRosa trade was a bad deal.

 

I wouldn't call it a "bad deal" if he doesn't acquire Peavy, but I would call it a "unnecessary move."

 

It wouldn't simply be unnecessary, though. It's a move that makes us worse. Simply signing Aaron Miles with DeRosa still here would've been unnecessary. Trading DeRo and not greatly upgrading elsewhere is bad.