Maddux and $$$ to the Dodgers for Cesar Izturis

[jmajew]

Is it possible that Hendry has soured on Cedeno and is planning on starting Izturis at short next year and sign someone to play 2nd say Julio Lugo?

[DiamondMind]

Sorry for the heated exchanges to a few of you - I just routinely feel that this message board is pessimistic and negative above all else. I subscribe to the school of thought that defense up the middle and groundball pitching wins championships. OBP is nice, but honestly I only care about it in the leadoff and 2 hole slots. Other than that, I just want players who wont strike out, have productive AB's (runner on third, less than one out), and can get a lot of XBH in proportion to singles.

 

Izturis and Cedeno will save many, many runs - more than Todd Walker and his .350 OBP ever earned us.

[UK1679666180]

the thing about scouting is it seems it should be so easy

 

does he recognize when a pitch is a ball?

does he swing when the pitch is a ball?

does he take a good swing when the pitch is a strike?

 

if you get the right response to all three, evaluate further. if you get the wrong response to any of the three, move onto the next guy (unless he's some freak like Vlad, but those guys are 1 in a million).

 

That's what scouts seem to hang their hat on. Baseball is a game of failure. Just like most great hitters fail more than half the time, baseball people fail in personel moves quite frequently, and it is accepted. If you sign one guy who does well then you're in the respected club, no matter how much money you've wasted on garbage players. Baseball is an incredibly inefficient sport, because baseball men refuse to evolve. It's a great sport, but it's run by backwards relics.

 

It is set up for failure given how few of the drafted or signed international FAs make it to the majors. Lack of supply doesn't creates that compared to limited openings.

[Soul]

Just look at the title of this thread. Negativity reigns supreme on this message board.

 

dude, I tangle with many of the people you are tangling with right now, but look at the roster going into 2004 and look at the roster going into 2007.

 

there's many reasons for negativity there, and if Aram opts out, that will leave exactly three players that are capable of being in the top half of the league at their position, barring offseason acquisitions.

 

sure, defense up the middle is important, but the game is really about scoring runs and pitching. and what really compounds it is that the past two off seasons were relative disasters, so it's hard to see any acquisitions that will allow us to score any runs. the only option will be to bench the two best positional prospects we've had in two decades.

 

 

it's just an absolute nightmare right now.

 

I hear you and agree. But I don't see what else Mad Dog brings in a deadline trade. You have to give something to get something. 2 months of 4.69 ERA doesn't bring much.

 

If this team is to turn it around, it was never going to be on the back of a miracle Maddux trade.

 

So why make a deal that makes you worse offensively both now and in the future?

 

You mean because Maddux hits better than Izturis? 8)

[Outshined_One]

Is it possible that Hendry has soured on Cedeno and is planning on starting Izturis at short next year and sign someone to play 2nd say Julio Lugo?

 

It's possible, but it also depends on how willing Lugo would be to play 2B.

[sethuel1]

I hate this stupid baseball organization. I cannot f- believe this. Seriously. They may have ruined 70s night tomorrow for me AND I DIDN'T EVEN CARE ABOUT THE ACTUAL GAME IN THE FIRST PLACE.

[jjgman21]

final thought before I got off the computer and go slit my wrists...

 

I think alot of my frustration stems from the talk of "a pitcher and a hitter from triple A." got my hopes up. even so, there were so many options that would have been better. for instance, any of the following:

 

take big huge contract of oft injured player off Dodgers hands who have plenty of young replacements (Drew)

take part time outfielder that they don't need at all and has moderate contract, but would help the Cubs (Cruz)

get a good prospect and pay all of Maddux's salary

get a non-spect and pay nothing, use the money to DFA Rusch or Neifi.

 

the last possible thing the Cubs should have done is take on a moderate size contract for a player that will not perform much better than two guys they already have.

 

between this and the Neifi/Rusch contract, the Sosa deal, the Patterson deal, the Aram opt out, there is no reason to believe that Hendry is capable of negotiating with agents, GMs, or anybody. he was bargaining from a position of strength IMO as I think the Dodgers were really interested in Maddux.

 

should've stuck by the guns that were reported. 'if the Cubs don't get good return, they will keep Maddux.' well they got the worst possible return.

 

I'm at a loss. so disappointed.

[DiamondMind]

Oh, I forgot - this is better than Luna for Belliard at least!

[RonnieWooWooSanto]

Is it possible that Hendry has soured on Cedeno and is planning on starting Izturis at short next year and sign someone to play 2nd say Julio Lugo?

 

I think Cedeno is liked by the Cubs as a 2b.

 

My guess is Lugo will get comfortable in LA and re sign with the Dodgers.

 

Dodgers next year:

 

1b - Loney

2b - Lugo

ss- Furcal

3b - LaRoche

C - Martin

utility = Betemit

 

That could be very scary for opposing teams in a couple of years.

[jmajew]

Is it possible that Hendry has soured on Cedeno and is planning on starting Izturis at short next year and sign someone to play 2nd say Julio Lugo?

 

It's possible, but it also depends on how willing Lugo would be to play 2B.

 

I am not gonna lie. The fact that this trade may signal Hendry has given up on Cedeno is what scares me the most.

[goonys evil twin]

There's got to be someone out there who will take him.

 

Come on, Hendry's not really going to field a team in '07 that starts Cedeno and Izturis with Neifi backing them up :lol:

 

I don't believe it. Hating Hendry as much as I have grown to-----there are many months ahead of us until next spring. I don't believe this is just it. Can't be.

 

I'm not saying this is it either. But I think it's highly unlikely that he traded for Izturis with the intent of getting rid of him. He's the prototypical Hendry acquisition. Overpaid, athletic, incapable of getting on base, etc.

 

I just don't understand how people who saw what he did with Rusch and Neifi could possibly look at this move and not think he intends on keeping this guy. Hendry does not mind overpaying for mediocrity. He strives for it actually. Just look at this team. You've got Pierre's .326 OBP, Jones and his .315.

 

Hendry doesn't feel the need to move him later due to his bad numbers because Hendry doesn't realize he has bad numbers. Hendry will always take the best numbers that a player ever achieved in his career and act as if he is a near lock to repeat those numbers, and maintain them over time. He probably doesn't even realize Izturis has an OPS+ of 69 for his career or that he's only stolen 65% of his attempts. He'll look at one season of a .288 AVG (not even looking at OBP) and say that's not all that bad.

[sethuel1]

Oh, I forgot - this is better than Luna for Belliard at least!

 

No. Luna for Belliard was pretty much an even deal where neither team improved that much or lost that much. This deal just plain sucks a fatty fatty ding dong.

[jjgman21]

Oh, I forgot - this is better than Luna for Belliard at least!

 

I appreciate the attempt to lighten the mood, but that move was lateral, the Cubs took a step backward.

[DiamondMind]

Oh, I forgot - this is better than Luna for Belliard at least!

 

No. Luna for Belliard was pretty much an even deal where neither team improved that much or lost that much. This deal just plain sucks a fatty fatty ding dong.

 

Just curious, but who would you have preferred from LA? I doubt they'd have given up any of the Martin/Ethier/Kemp group, and Guzman was sent to TB.

[sethuel1]

Oh, I forgot - this is better than Luna for Belliard at least!

 

No. Luna for Belliard was pretty much an even deal where neither team improved that much or lost that much. This deal just plain sucks a fatty fatty ding dong.

 

Just curious, but who would you have preferred from LA? I doubt they'd have given up any of the Martin/Ethier/Kemp group, and Guzman was sent to TB.

 

I would've taken the single A throw-in on the Lugo deal. Or his sister. Or a urinal cake.

[jjgman21]

Oh, I forgot - this is better than Luna for Belliard at least!

 

No. Luna for Belliard was pretty much an even deal where neither team improved that much or lost that much. This deal just plain sucks a fatty fatty ding dong.

 

Just curious, but who would you have preferred from LA? I doubt they'd have given up any of the Martin/Ethier/Kemp group, and Guzman was sent to TB.

 

if we had to take a player they don't need and is paid 4-5M/year, it would have been Cruz to split time in the corner outfields with Murton and Jones.

 

ok. these wrists aren't slitting themselves. Im out.

[Outshined_One]

I am not gonna lie. The fact that this trade may signal Hendry has given up on Cedeno is what scares me the most.

 

I'm more concerned with Murton than Cedeno when it comes to what players this organization has given up on. The fact that Phil Nevin received plenty of playing time since his acquisition while Murton's time on the field gradually decreased at first signalled a possible trade to me. However, unless a waiver deal is in the works, that does not seem to be the case.

 

I like Murton quite a bit and hope he can put together a solid August and September to make a case for a starting job next year. However, I have to wonder if that will be the case...

[goonys evil twin]

I am not gonna lie. The fact that this trade may signal Hendry has given up on Cedeno is what scares me the most.

 

I'm more concerned with Murton than Cedeno when it comes to what players this organization has given up on. The fact that Phil Nevin received plenty of playing time since his acquisition while Murton's time on the field gradually decreased at first signalled a possible trade to me. However, unless a waiver deal is in the works, that does not seem to be the case.

 

I like Murton quite a bit and hope he can put together a solid August and September to make a case for a starting job next year. However, I have to wonder if that will be the case...

 

Murton isn't really the type of player that could pass through waivers. Most guys who pass through are guys with bad contracts. Murton is cheap and has a decent track record. Somebody would claim him.

[jmajew]

I am not gonna lie. The fact that this trade may signal Hendry has given up on Cedeno is what scares me the most.

 

I'm more concerned with Murton than Cedeno when it comes to what players this organization has given up on. The fact that Phil Nevin received plenty of playing time since his acquisition while Murton's time on the field gradually decreased at first signalled a possible trade to me. However, unless a waiver deal is in the works, that does not seem to be the case.

 

I like Murton quite a bit and hope he can put together a solid August and September to make a case for a starting job next year. However, I have to wonder if that will be the case...

 

Murton is starting to come around now. He is now batting like 270 vs righties which is pretty respectable. If he can get that up to 280 and keep his 300 vs lefties my bet is he would get the chance to start and bat second next year. IF we sign someone to play right and don't trade Jones or are willing have him come off the bench we will be in some trouble.

[NCCubFan]

Sept. 12,13 and 14

 

Dodgers at Cubs

 

I hope Maddux pitches and shutsout the Cubs.

With Nomar hitting two grand slams.

[goonys evil twin]

If he can get that up to 280 and keep his 300 vs lefties my bet is he would get the chance to start and bat second next year.

 

Pierre and Izturis are likely 1 and 2.

[YearofDaCubs]

Sept. 12,13 and 14

 

Dodgers at Cubs

 

I hope Maddux pitches and shutsout the Cubs.

With Nomar hitting two grand slams.

If he's off the DL by then.

[NCCubFan]

Bold Prediction:

 

Cubs finish with the worst record in the NL this year.

 

 

Edited:

 

And make their first pick in the '07 draft a high-school pitcher with a 95-mph fastball and poor control, so we can watch him flame out in A ball.

You forgot the most important part: The pitcher has to be recovering from shoulder or elbow surgery.

[Z38Cubs]

Woohoo, defense up the middle, Let's resign Pierre, trade Barrett, and make Henry Blanco our everyday catcher. World Series, here we come.

[jmajew]

If he can get that up to 280 and keep his 300 vs lefties my bet is he would get the chance to start and bat second next year.

 

Pierre and Izturis are likely 1 and 2.

 

I Pierre gets his OBP up to about 340 this year like he is on pace to do (he has been playing great since the start of June) he is a pretty solid leadoff hitter. If the intent is to bat Izturis 2, then this trade was not smart. Izturis is nothing more than a 7 or 8 hitter with incredible defense.

Edited July 31, 2006 by jmajew