Maddux and $$$ to the Dodgers for Cesar Izturis

[CUBZ99]

From Chicagosports.com

 

He had considered a package of high-level prospects from the Dodgers, but turned it down and figured that was the end of his dealings with L.A. general manager Ned Colletti.

 

But when the Dodgers knew they were going to acquire Julio Lugo from Tampa Bay, they upped the ante and made Izturis expendable.

 

Didn't see this posted, but I haven't read all 55 pages of posts. This comment makes this deal even worse. Hendry could have had a package of high level prospects, but took Izturis? ](*,)

Edited July 31, 2006 by CUBZ99

[wade]

Oh, and stop hanging jmajew to the cross because his opinion differs from your own. You people are half communist sometimes.

 

Now there's at least one member who might take that as a compliment, but I think most of those who differ with jmajew are pretty much red-blooded capitalists (not that communists don't have red blood too). As such, we have an aversion to over-spending for under-production.

 

capitalism is actually much more inefficient than communism. if you lived in a commune, your basic living expenses for one year would be around $10,000.

 

Would we have HD TV? :D

[RonCey]

Who exactly did everyone think we could get for someone who may make no more than 12 or 13 starts for a team?? Itzuris doesn't surprise me in the least bit.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Feeble silver lining: Izturis is less worthless in Day games(.719 OPS) than Night games(.600)

[goonys evil twin]

If he can get that up to 280 and keep his 300 vs lefties my bet is he would get the chance to start and bat second next year.

 

Pierre and Izturis are likely 1 and 2.

 

I Pierre gets his OBP up to about 340 this year like he is on pace to do he is a pretty solid leadoff hitter. If the intent is to bat Izturis 2, then this trade was not smart. Izturis is nothing more than a 7 or 8 hitter with incredible defense.

 

Pierre, even at .340, is not a solid hitter, no matter where he bats. They've hit Neifi in the 2 hole more than any other spot this year and last. I believe they think Izturis is a better version of that same thing.

[USSoccer]

From Chicagosports.com

 

He had considered a package of high-level prospects from the Dodgers, but turned it down and figured that was the end of his dealings with L.A. general manager Ned Colletti.

 

But when the Dodgers knew they were going to acquire Julio Lugo from Tampa Bay, they upped the ante and made Izturis expendable.

 

Didn't see this posted, but I haven't read all 55 pages of posts. This comment makes this deal even worse. Hendry could have had a package of high level prospects, but took Izturis? ](*,)

 

The case for firing him immediately keeps getting stronger and stronger.

[imb]

From Chicagosports.com

 

He had considered a package of high-level prospects from the Dodgers, but turned it down and figured that was the end of his dealings with L.A. general manager Ned Colletti.

 

But when the Dodgers knew they were going to acquire Julio Lugo from Tampa Bay, they upped the ante and made Izturis expendable.

 

Didn't see this posted, but I haven't read all 55 pages of posts. This comment makes this deal even worse. Hendry could have had a package of high level prospects, but took Izturis? ](*,)

 

Hahahahah, I would have taken any one player in the dodgers system, regardless of age/level/ability over Izturis. How can Hendry be such an f-up?

[USSoccer]

From Chicagosports.com

 

He had considered a package of high-level prospects from the Dodgers, but turned it down and figured that was the end of his dealings with L.A. general manager Ned Colletti.

 

But when the Dodgers knew they were going to acquire Julio Lugo from Tampa Bay, they upped the ante and made Izturis expendable.

 

Didn't see this posted, but I haven't read all 55 pages of posts. This comment makes this deal even worse. Hendry could have had a package of high level prospects, but took Izturis? ](*,)

 

Hahahahah, I would have taken any one player in the dodgers system, regardless of age/level/ability over Izturis. How can Hendry be such an f-up?

 

Quoted For Truth. At least an organizational filler type prospect would have been inexpensive.

[jmajew]

If he can get that up to 280 and keep his 300 vs lefties my bet is he would get the chance to start and bat second next year.

 

Pierre and Izturis are likely 1 and 2.

 

I Pierre gets his OBP up to about 340 this year like he is on pace to do he is a pretty solid leadoff hitter. If the intent is to bat Izturis 2, then this trade was not smart. Izturis is nothing more than a 7 or 8 hitter with incredible defense.

 

Pierre, even at .340, is not a solid hitter, no matter where he bats. They've hit Neifi in the 2 hole more than any other spot this year and last. I believe they think Izturis is a better version of that same thing.

 

If what you are saying is the truth then i take back everything i've said about this trade all day.

[CubColtPacer]

OK, let's look at this. Izturis's OBP was 330 in 2004. He had a .302 OBP last year-and would have probably been at least .330 again if he had not been hurt (.370 in April, .402 in May-he would have definitely cooled down from there, but he certainly wouldn't have dropped as much as he did if he hadn't gotten hurt). The reasonable thing we can expect in 2007 is probably between a .310-.340 OBP. He is 26 now, so he might still be getting better.

This is a player who you can easily have in your starting lineup and have him be productive. The trick is we need to get more offensive talent at other positions. If we do that, Izturis is about what Cedeno's upside is anyway at least to me. This is an upgrade at shortstop with a much higher cost, but a severe downgrade if it just means we move Cedeno to second-for 2007. Moving Cedeno to second really doesn't make sense-he can't hit, his best thing about his defense is his range, which would be much less valuable at second, and his errors come from his throwing-which will be almost as bad from second. So, if we can sign a big bat for second base instead of Cedeno, we will be getting a slightly better hitter with much better defense at short.

[wade]

Woohoo, defense up the middle, Let's resign Pierre, trade Barrett, and make Henry Blanco our everyday catcher. World Series, here we come.

 

I now absolutely believe Barrett will be traded in the off-season. He's no great shakes defensively and the direction the Cubs are moving does not seem likely to deviate.

[A New Era]

Woohoo, defense up the middle, Let's resign Pierre, trade Barrett, and make Henry Blanco our everyday catcher. World Series, here we come.

 

I now absolutely believe Barrett will be traded in the off-season. He's no great shakes defensively and the direction the Cubs are moving does not seem likely to deviate.

 

I absolutely beleive you don't absolutely beleive that. With a MI of cedeno/izturis players like Barret, Lee, and Ramirez will be sorely needed. I now beleive JH will go after Carlos Lee and a SP in the offseason. .

[CUBZ99]

From Chicagosports.com

 

He had considered a package of high-level prospects from the Dodgers, but turned it down and figured that was the end of his dealings with L.A. general manager Ned Colletti.

 

But when the Dodgers knew they were going to acquire Julio Lugo from Tampa Bay, they upped the ante and made Izturis expendable.

 

Didn't see this posted, but I haven't read all 55 pages of posts. This comment makes this deal even worse. Hendry could have had a package of high level prospects, but took Izturis? ](*,)

 

Hahahahah, I would have taken any one player in the dodgers system, regardless of age/level/ability over Izturis. How can Hendry be such an f-up?

 

Quoted For Truth. At least an organizational filler type prospect would have been inexpensive.

 

Seriously, what is the problem with Hendry and why is he given a free pass in the media and by the organization? The guy is wasting money left and right on middle infielders that can't hit or get on base. So far this year they have had Perez, Bynum, Hairston, Cedeno, Womack, and now Izturis. Add in Walker and that is about $10M on below average 2bs and SS's completely wasted.

 

What is it exactly that he values?

[abuck1220]

hendry turned down "high-level prospects" (that's plural) for a crummier, more expensive version of neifi. he's the laughing stock of baseball right now.

[USSoccer]

OK, let's look at this. Izturis's OBP was 330 in 2004. He had a .302 OBP last year-and would have probably been at least .330 again if he had not been hurt (.370 in April, .402 in May-he would have definitely cooled down from there, but he certainly wouldn't have dropped as much as he did if he hadn't gotten hurt). The reasonable thing we can expect in 2007 is probably between a .310-.340 OBP. He is 26 now, so he might still be getting better.

This is a player who you can easily have in your starting lineup and have him be productive. The trick is we need to get more offensive talent at other positions. If we do that, Izturis is about what Cedeno's upside is anyway at least to me. This is an upgrade at shortstop with a much higher cost, but a severe downgrade if it just means we move Cedeno to second-for 2007. Moving Cedeno to second really doesn't make sense-he can't hit, his best thing about his defense is his range, which would be much less valuable at second, and his errors come from his throwing-which will be almost as bad from second. So, if we can sign a big bat for second base instead of Cedeno, we will be getting a slightly better hitter with much better defense at short.

 

The problem is that his salary will make it that much more difficult to improve offensively.

[goonys evil twin]

Who exactly did everyone think we could get for someone who may make no more than 12 or 13 starts for a team?? Itzuris doesn't surprise me in the least bit.

 

I'm not asking for more. I'm asking for something less destructive to the team than Izturis, his pathetic production and his contract.

[USSoccer]

Woohoo, defense up the middle, Let's resign Pierre, trade Barrett, and make Henry Blanco our everyday catcher. World Series, here we come.

 

I now absolutely believe Barrett will be traded in the off-season. He's no great shakes defensively and the direction the Cubs are moving does not seem likely to deviate.

 

I absolutely beleive you don't absolutely beleive that. With a MI of cedeno/izturis players like Barret, Lee, and Ramirez will be sorely needed. I now beleive JH will go after Carlos Lee and a SP in the offseason. .

 

And thanks to contracts like Perez's, Rusch's and now Izturis's, we won't be able to pony up the necessary cash to compete in a bidding war during a very, very weak FA market.

 

We'll be incredibly fortunate to retain and extend Ramirez.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I just took 90 minutes off to concentrate on other aspects of life and cool down after my initial shock. I'm actually more pissed now.

[USSoccer]

Who exactly did everyone think we could get for someone who may make no more than 12 or 13 starts for a team?? Itzuris doesn't surprise me in the least bit.

 

I'm not asking for more. I'm asking for something less destructive to the team than Izturis, his pathetic production and his contract.

 

Seriously, no one is complaining we didn't get enough. We're complaining that what we got is one of the worst possible outcomes there is. The only way Hendry could have screwed it up even more is if he'd taken Gagne back with Izturis.

[abuck1220]

nearly 9 mil for rusch, neifi and izturis next year. 9 mil gets you a good player.

[USSoccer]

nearly 9 mil for rusch, neifi and izturis next year. 9 mil gets you a good player.

 

And those 3 roles could easily have been filled by Theriot, Fontenot and Williams with little risk of production drop off, at a tenth of the cost.

[sethuel1]

I just took 90 minutes off to concentrate on other aspects of life and cool down after my initial shock. I'm actually more pissed now.

 

I stopped to eat. I just binged and purged.

[DiamondMind]

Woohoo, defense up the middle, Let's resign Pierre, trade Barrett, and make Henry Blanco our everyday catcher. World Series, here we come.

 

Pierre's defense is fine, he doesnt' have the best arm but what you want from CF is range. Barrett's defense is another story though.

[Wheelimus]

Wow.

 

Well, first, the positives.

 

The good news is, basically, there are two Cesar's. There's the one from 2004 and half of 2005 who wasn't too bad offesively for a shortstop. .288/.330/.381/.711. in '04, .275/.322/.338/.660 Pre-All star '05. So the talent is there, though that drop in power is troubling. And remember that LA is a pitcher friendly park, he was much better on the road in '04. .306/.351/.418/.769. I could live with that from a shortstop.

 

Now, with that out of the way...

 

Terrible move. Yes, Cesar had a good year and a half run where he was probably one of the better offensive shortstops in the NL. But then arthritis hit. Whenever you have "degenerative" before an injury, it isn't good. Tommy John surgery?

 

I could live with him if he made the minimum. Because that's what he is at this point in his career, a minimum salary spring training invite type of player. He just might pay off, you never know. There's always Omar Vizquel. But you shouldn't be paying four million dollars on a roll of the dice.

 

You gave up the best mentor a young staff could ever hope for in exchange for a guy who you should have picked up off the scrap heap for a mid-level prospect, with the Dodgers eating a bunch of cash. Totally pathetic.

[goonys evil twin]

Woohoo, defense up the middle, Let's resign Pierre, trade Barrett, and make Henry Blanco our everyday catcher. World Series, here we come.

 

Pierre's defense is fine, he doesnt' have the best arm but what you want from CF is range. Barrett's defense is another story though.

 

What you want is a guy who can take the right route to the ball, cover ground and throw. Pierre can only do one of those three.