Maddux and $$$ to the Dodgers for Cesar Izturis

[RonnieWooWooSanto]

Steve Stone on the Score670 believes this is a good move.

 

He believes it's good to get Izturis a good glove who is locked up contract wise.

 

Also, he says it is better than if the Cubs would have signed Furcal at the money the Cubs offered in the off season.

 

I happen to fully agree with Stone(I know, I blast him a lot), but you got a true SS, a switch hitter who doesn't strike out and a glod glove fielder vs 2 more months of Maddux.

 

I could deal with it if I knew Neifi wasn't coming back next year. But, he'll be back.

[jmajew]

I honestly like this deal. Having a gold glove shortstop in Izturis and having a SS playing second in Cedeno can only help our young pitchers. Our defense up the middle will be spectacular.

 

WE NEED PEOPLE WHO CAN ACTUALLY GET ON BASE.

 

You can get that from other positions. If Izturis returns to his 04 form his 330 OBP will be just fine from the 7 spot. If we can hopefully sign Carlos Lee or Soriano this offseason we will be set. Pierre, Barrett, Lee, Soriano/Lee, Ramirez, Jones/Murton, Izturis, Cedeno.

[FergieJ31]

Remember at this moment two years ago what this board was buzzing about, trading Agony + prospects not named Guzman or Pie (and not giving up Clement) for Nomah and some kid named Matt Murton.

 

And right at the 4pm deadline.

 

Ahhh good times.

[oldcubsfan]

Defense isn't why this team sucked last year, and it's not why they suck this year.

 

"Not striking out" is not important. It's useless when you just make a ton of outs.

Not if he can move runners which many of the Cubs can't and neither could Walker.

[Guest]

Steve Stone on the Score670 believes this is a good move.

 

He believes it's good to get Izturis a good glove who is locked up contract wise.

 

Also, he says it is better than if the Cubs would have signed Furcal at the money the Cubs offered in the off season.

 

I happen to fully agree with Stone(I know, I blast him a lot), but you got a true SS, a switch hitter who doesn't strike out and a glod glove fielder vs 2 more months of Maddux.

We already have two true SS's on the roster for next year.

 

Switch hitting doesn't matter if the production isn't there.

 

Cedeno & Neifi don't strike out that much, either.

 

Neifi won a GG, too, and we already had him and don't have to pay an extra $4M for him next year.

[badger1679666666]

I honestly like this deal. Having a gold glove shortstop in Izturis and having a SS playing second in Cedeno can only help our young pitchers. Our defense up the middle will be spectacular.

 

WE NEED PEOPLE WHO CAN ACTUALLY GET ON BASE.

 

You can get that from other positions. If Izturis returns to his 04 form his 330 OBP will be just fine from the 7 spot. If we can hopefully sign Carlos Lee or Soriano this offseason we will be set. Pierre, Barrett, Lee, Soriano/Lee, Ramirez, Jones/Murton, Izturis, Cedeno.

 

What makes you think Hendry will do ANYTHING to get OBP at any position?

 

Huh?

[ToupeeOnFire]

Sig has been updated.

Reverse that sig and I would agree.

[WrigleyField 22]

I honestly like this deal. Having a gold glove shortstop in Izturis and having a SS playing second in Cedeno can only help our young pitchers. Our defense up the middle will be spectacular.

 

WE NEED PEOPLE WHO CAN ACTUALLY GET ON BASE.

 

You can get that from other positions. If Izturis returns to his 04 form his 330 OBP will be just fine from the 7 spot. If we can hopefully sign Carlos Lee or Soriano this offseason we will be set. Pierre, Barrett, Lee, Soriano/Lee, Ramirez, Jones/Murton, Izturis, Cedeno.

 

You need guys to get on base at all positions.

 

Besides the mediocre .330 OBP is counting on him repeating a career year.

[jjgman21]

Remember at this moment two years ago what this board was buzzing about, trading Agony + prospects not named Guzman or Pie (and not giving up Clement) for Nomah and some kid named Matt Murton.

 

And right at the 4pm deadline.

 

Ahhh good times.

 

I was just thinking of the days we were bitching because we needed one more bullpen arm and better bench players than Bako and Goodwin.

 

those were the days.

[fiver]

Steve Stone on the Score670 believes this is a good move.

 

He believes it's good to get Izturis a good glove who is locked up contract wise.

 

Also, he says it is better than if the Cubs would have signed Furcal at the money the Cubs offered in the off season.

 

I happen to fully agree with Stone(I know, I blast him a lot), but you got a true SS, a switch hitter who doesn't strike out and a glod glove fielder vs 2 more months of Maddux.

 

Does it really matter that he doesn't strike out when he also doesn't get on base? He may be a true short stop, but we also have 2B, LF, and CF manned with individuals that also hit like "true SS's". Couldn't Cedeno or Nefi provide almost identical both in the field and at the plate? It doesn't really matter that he's a switch hitter when he hits neith LHP's or RHP's well does it?

[fibro]

I guess I am an idiot I actually like this deal.

[Magnetic Curses]

this offense cannot a foord a MI of izturis and cedeno. it can get by with one of them, not both.

 

if this lineup holds up and cedeno is placed in the lineup along with izturis and pierre--well, boys, there are 3 sub .700 OPS's right there. but hendry won't see it, won't look in that direction.

 

somebody will get hurt and he'll blame it on injuries. i just wish for one second that people would stop getting hurt so that hendry can see just how bad his team was, and it was bad.

 

pray for a healthy team next year, and pray that it doesn't get lucky and wind up within 20 games of .500--that would only encourage the hendry and his antiquated philosophies.

 

Good grief, has anyone with a top 10 payroll ever put a team on the field with 3 guys who are almost assuredly going to have sub .700 OPS's?

[oldcubsfan]

Steve Stone on the Score670 believes this is a good move.

 

He believes it's good to get Izturis a good glove who is locked up contract wise.

 

Also, he says it is better than if the Cubs would have signed Furcal at the money the Cubs offered in the off season.

 

I happen to fully agree with Stone(I know, I blast him a lot), but you got a true SS, a switch hitter who doesn't strike out and a glod glove fielder vs 2 more months of Maddux.

We already have two true SS's on the roster for next year.

 

Switch hitting doesn't matter if the production isn't there.

 

Cedeno & Neifi don't strike out that much, either.

 

Neifi won a GG, too, and we already had him and don't have to pay an extra $4M for him next year.

Cedeno isn't a quality SS and Neifi is a backup. What did you think you would get for Maddux for 2 months, along with a No trade clause?

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I honestly like this deal. Having a gold glove shortstop in Izturis and having a SS playing second in Cedeno can only help our young pitchers. Our defense up the middle will be spectacular.

 

WE NEED PEOPLE WHO CAN ACTUALLY GET ON BASE.

 

You can get that from other positions. If Izturis returns to his 04 form his 330 OBP will be just fine from the 7 spot. If we can hopefully sign Carlos Lee or Soriano this offseason we will be set. Pierre, Barrett, Lee, Soriano/Lee, Ramirez, Jones/Murton, Izturis, Cedeno.

 

What makes you think his "form" is the 330? Could it be all of the other seasons where he has been much worse? I think that was an anomoly, not something to be expected. His minor league OBP was 311, and it's 295 in the majors.

[frostwyrm]

Steve Stone on the Score670 believes this is a good move.

 

He believes it's good to get Izturis a good glove who is locked up contract wise.

 

Also, he says it is better than if the Cubs would have signed Furcal at the money the Cubs offered in the off season.

 

I happen to fully agree with Stone(I know, I blast him a lot), but you got a true SS, a switch hitter who doesn't strike out and a glod glove fielder vs 2 more months of Maddux.

So you agree he's a young Neifi clone with a bigger salary.

[jmajew]

I honestly like this deal. Having a gold glove shortstop in Izturis and having a SS playing second in Cedeno can only help our young pitchers. Our defense up the middle will be spectacular.

 

WE NEED PEOPLE WHO CAN ACTUALLY GET ON BASE.

 

You can get that from other positions. If Izturis returns to his 04 form his 330 OBP will be just fine from the 7 spot. If we can hopefully sign Carlos Lee or Soriano this offseason we will be set. Pierre, Barrett, Lee, Soriano/Lee, Ramirez, Jones/Murton, Izturis, Cedeno.

 

What makes you think Hendry will do ANYTHING to get OBP at any position?

 

Huh?

 

I don't know. But the fact that no one can predict the future is reason enough to be optimistic. YOu can't assume that something is going to happen a certain way. We need to patiently wait till the offseason and see what he does. If he does go out and get Lee or Soriano this will have been a great deal. So sit back and relax and hope for the best. There is no reason to be negative.

[Magnetic Curses]

Defense isn't why this team sucked last year, and it's not why they suck this year.

 

"Not striking out" is not important. It's useless when you just make a ton of outs.

Not if he can move runners which many of the Cubs can't and neither could Walker.

 

just moving runners over is a terrible way to approach hitting.

 

slapping at any pitch in order to "just make contact" is gutless baseball, and is generally exposed--much like our team is being exposed as gutless.

 

"oh well, at least they don't strike out much and move runners over."

 

striking out is a small price to pay for attempting to put the ball in play effectively, not just slapping bad pitches around the diamond for the sake of moving up baserunners--who don't exist anyway because we never walk, either.

[Soul]

Steve Stone on the Score670 believes this is a good move.

 

He believes it's good to get Izturis a good glove who is locked up contract wise.

 

Also, he says it is better than if the Cubs would have signed Furcal at the money the Cubs offered in the off season.

 

I happen to fully agree with Stone(I know, I blast him a lot), but you got a true SS, a switch hitter who doesn't strike out and a glod glove fielder vs 2 more months of Maddux.

We already have two true SS's on the roster for next year.

 

Switch hitting doesn't matter if the production isn't there.

 

Cedeno & Neifi don't strike out that much, either.

 

Neifi won a GG, too, and we already had him and don't have to pay an extra $4M for him next year.

Cedeno isn't a quality SS and Neifi is a backup. What did you think you would get for Maddux for 2 months, along with a No trade clause?

 

Count me among the idiots.

 

I'm not sure what Hendry was supposed to get for a 2 month flyer on an ancient pitcher with little or nothing left in the tank.

 

Not sure what to think about Izturis. I just didn't expect anything more than a marginal prospect or two for 2 months of Mad Dog.

[Guest]

Steve Stone on the Score670 believes this is a good move.

 

He believes it's good to get Izturis a good glove who is locked up contract wise.

 

Also, he says it is better than if the Cubs would have signed Furcal at the money the Cubs offered in the off season.

 

I happen to fully agree with Stone(I know, I blast him a lot), but you got a true SS, a switch hitter who doesn't strike out and a glod glove fielder vs 2 more months of Maddux.

We already have two true SS's on the roster for next year.

 

Switch hitting doesn't matter if the production isn't there.

 

Cedeno & Neifi don't strike out that much, either.

 

Neifi won a GG, too, and we already had him and don't have to pay an extra $4M for him next year.

Cedeno isn't a quality SS and Neifi is a backup. What did you think you would get for Maddux for 2 months, along with a No trade clause?

If Ned had called me on the phone and offered Izturis in return for absolutely nothing, I would have turned him down.

 

Cedeno is a rookie. He has the range, he'll improve his consistency.

 

What makes Izturis any better than Neifi? They're both about the same in the field and at the plate. If you consider Neifi nothing more than a bench player, what do you see in Izturis that gets you excited?

[Jon]

Steve Stone on the Score670 believes this is a good move.

 

He believes it's good to get Izturis a good glove who is locked up contract wise.

 

Also, he says it is better than if the Cubs would have signed Furcal at the money the Cubs offered in the off season.

 

I happen to fully agree with Stone(I know, I blast him a lot), but you got a true SS, a switch hitter who doesn't strike out and a glod glove fielder vs 2 more months of Maddux.

We already have two true SS's on the roster for next year.

 

Switch hitting doesn't matter if the production isn't there.

 

Cedeno & Neifi don't strike out that much, either.

 

Neifi won a GG, too, and we already had him and don't have to pay an extra $4M for him next year.

Cedeno isn't a quality SS and Neifi is a backup. What did you think you would get for Maddux for 2 months, along with a No trade clause?

2002 - .232/.253/.303

2003 - .251/.282/.315

2004 - .288/.330/.381

2005 - .257/.302/.322

2006 - .252/.302/.353

 

He's horrible, he's making over $4 million next year, and the Cubs had to actually send over money.

Edited July 31, 2006 by Jon

[Soul]

Defense isn't why this team sucked last year, and it's not why they suck this year.

 

"Not striking out" is not important. It's useless when you just make a ton of outs.

Not if he can move runners which many of the Cubs can't and neither could Walker.

 

just moving runners over is a terrible way to approach hitting.

 

slapping at any pitch in order to "just make contact" is gutless baseball, and is generally exposed--much like our team is being exposed as gutless.

 

"oh well, at least they don't strike out much and move runners over."

 

striking out is a small price to pay for attempting to put the ball in play effectively, not just slapping bad pitches around the diamond for the sake of moving up baserunners--who don't exist anyway because we never walk, either.

 

Are we assuming Izturis will play for the Cubs next year? If so, isn't that a bit premature?

[Butterscup1679666578]

Unreal. We could've probably gotten any of LA's decent prospects and we get another Neifi-Cedeno-esque player. I hate you, Jim Hendry.

[fiver]

Steve Stone on the Score670 believes this is a good move.

 

He believes it's good to get Izturis a good glove who is locked up contract wise.

 

Also, he says it is better than if the Cubs would have signed Furcal at the money the Cubs offered in the off season.

 

I happen to fully agree with Stone(I know, I blast him a lot), but you got a true SS, a switch hitter who doesn't strike out and a glod glove fielder vs 2 more months of Maddux.

We already have two true SS's on the roster for next year.

 

Switch hitting doesn't matter if the production isn't there.

 

Cedeno & Neifi don't strike out that much, either.

 

Neifi won a GG, too, and we already had him and don't have to pay an extra $4M for him next year.

Cedeno isn't a quality SS and Neifi is a backup. What did you think you would get for Maddux for 2 months, along with a No trade clause?

 

explain to me how Neifi is a "backup" yet Itzuris isn't. You've read this thread, right? Itzuris is essentially Neifi Perez. We have Neifi Perez signed already. We didn't need to spend 4 million dollars on Itzuris when it could have been utilized upgrading 2B, LF, RF, CF, SP, resiging Aramis, etc.

[frostwyrm]

Are we assuming Izturis will play for the Cubs next year? If so, isn't that a bit premature?

Why acquire him if he's not playing next year?

[Guest]

Steve Stone on the Score670 believes this is a good move.

 

He believes it's good to get Izturis a good glove who is locked up contract wise.

 

Also, he says it is better than if the Cubs would have signed Furcal at the money the Cubs offered in the off season.

 

I happen to fully agree with Stone(I know, I blast him a lot), but you got a true SS, a switch hitter who doesn't strike out and a glod glove fielder vs 2 more months of Maddux.

We already have two true SS's on the roster for next year.

 

Switch hitting doesn't matter if the production isn't there.

 

Cedeno & Neifi don't strike out that much, either.

 

Neifi won a GG, too, and we already had him and don't have to pay an extra $4M for him next year.

Cedeno isn't a quality SS and Neifi is a backup. What did you think you would get for Maddux for 2 months, along with a No trade clause?

As I said earlier in the thread, if it came down to a choice of this trade or taking back a player like we got in the Walker deal, I'd take the player we got back there.

 

Or I'd walk away.