Question of the week: Are you ready to move on from Jed?

[Geographyhater8888]

8 hours ago, bryzz0brist said:

Looking at Bregman's fangraphs page, his zips projection give him a 3.1 war season this season (above average), a 2.1 war next season (average major leaguer) and then a drop to 1.3 war in 2028.   I think it was an overpay for a player who's realistically about 2/3 of the way done with his playing career and not really even expected to be worth the first half of the contract we've given him.   

i know signings can be tough and competitive and that Shaw is/was far from a 3b lock last offseason, but if we're looking at those same ZIPS projections, Shaw outplays Bregman in every season other than this one.  It's not that simple, i know, but Bregman seemed like a forced fit on the team somehow at that price point. 

Swanson at least produced on the front end of his 7 year deal before his inevitable age 30’s decline, and he’s been a major black hole in the lineup up to this point. This isn’t the case with a 32 YO Bregman. The process was strange. I’m curious what their internal models projected since ZIPS wasn’t flattering to Bregman. 

Edited June 15 by Geographyhater8888

[CubinNY]

Titanic and deck chairs? I don’t think so, but at the same time the Ricketts will find a clone. They’ve changed/overhauled the development team. I see that as a sign he’s here for the long term. 
 

Jed is a B-grade administrator who is a company man. He has to be to stay in his job. They could do a lot worse and only a little better. 
 

I would not shed a tear if they fired him (they won’t), but do not have any confidence the Ricketts would do better. 

[Rcal10]

51 minutes ago, CubinNY said:

Titanic and deck chairs? I don’t think so, but at the same time the Ricketts will find a clone. They’ve changed/overhauled the development team. I see that as a sign he’s here for the long term. 
 

Jed is a B-grade administrator who is a company man. He has to be to stay in his job. They could do a lot worse and only a little better. 
 

I would not shed a tear if they fired him (they won’t), but do not have any confidence the Ricketts would do better. 

This sums it up for me too. And if every B- FO personal were fired there would be a lot of openings in baseball and a bunch of teams picking up other teams B- castoffs. Jed isn’t great, but he isn’t as bad as some suggest. 

 

[Brock Beauchamp]

On 6/13/2026 at 4:41 PM, Jason Ross said:

The Brewers are good, yes. Good reminder, though, David Sterns and Craig Counsell were considered the engine, both left and the Brewers have been just fine with both Sterns and Counsell haven't had the same success. So when we do these things, what we attribute to one person or another isn't always the case. 

This is a really important point. The two most "successful" franchises are probably the Rays and Brewers, as they both punch wayyyyyy above their weight class. And both organizations have had massive turnover, yet they keep winning. I'm not sure how you build a winner like that, but it takes more than one smart person at the top (though that's likely one requirement of many).

[We Got The Whole 9]

15 hours ago, bryzz0brist said:

Looking at Bregman's fangraphs page, his zips projection give him a 3.1 war season this season (above average), a 2.1 war next season (average major leaguer) and then a drop to 1.3 war in 2028.   I think it was an overpay for a player who's realistically about 2/3 of the way done with his playing career and not really even expected to be worth the first half of the contract we've given him.   

i know signings can be tough and competitive and that Shaw is/was far from a 3b lock last offseason, but if we're looking at those same ZIPS projections, Shaw outplays Bregman in every season other than this one.  It's not that simple, i know, but Bregman seemed like a forced fit on the team somehow at that price point. 

Bregman has been as-expected on the road. Its when he hits at Wrigley where he's been a disaster. I still think he can be a 120 bat but he needs to figure that horsefeathers out. He was a relatively safe bet, Shaw is not. Shaw started to put it together again this year but then went into a really cold spell. I think his defense would have carried him to a decent war but his offense is pretty sketch. I don't think we needed to spend 175m to solve that issue though. Jed is too fixated on safe bets/vets IMO. We especially see that in the pen. He could go and trade for some live arms/stuff but he'd always rather get the steady-ish guy in the FA market for some reason. 

[The_Achiever]

I think Jed's job is extremely safe.  He just signed a new contract, and the Cubs will win enough to stay in the Wild Cart hunt, which will be enough to keep butts in the seats.  

He's got his work cut out for him, though.  Swanson and Bregman could be pretty rough for the next 3-4 years and the pitching staff is going to have to basically be rebuilt after this season.  At least PCA appears to be the real deal.   

[chibears55]

Been ready for a new direction with this team for a couple seasons now...

Hoyer just doesn't have what it takes to get a team over the top.

He rebuilt off a championship team, got them to 500 a couple years, had a big year last season but they ran out of gas at the end, this season they look to be back as being a 500 club.

They have very little to build off of with this current roster and ready/near ready prospects for next season. 

[PeanutPunch33]

On 6/13/2026 at 4:41 PM, Jason Ross said:

I don't have a 1-30 ranking, but I'd grade him as "pretty good". He isn't perfect, I do think you *can* upgrade on him, but that most moves would be "lateral". Much of what people piss and moan about Hoyer can be said about others. And for his drawbacks, he rarely just sinks the Cubs or that they're watchable.

The Brewers are good, yes. Good reminder, though, David Sterns and Craig Counsell were considered the engine, both left and the Brewers have been just fine with both Sterns and Counsell haven't had the same success. So when we do these things, what we attribute to one person or another isn't always the case. 

Calling Jed a good GM is mighty generous.  

The Cubs are loaded with terrible contracts across the infield, they don’t have any great hitting prospects in the pipeline and they have only 2 cornerstone players in the lineup after 6 years in Busch and PCA.  The rotation has no velocity outside of 1 or 2 guys, the bullpen has no velocity outside of 1 or 2 guys.  Their best pitcher in their lone playoff year was a 34 year old journeyman who almost certainly will never have a season like that again.  

It’s just not been good enough.  

0 pennants in 6 seasons, 1 playoff appearance in 6 seasons and a team devoid of high end talent.  

Don’t get how that impresses anyone.

Edited Monday at 11:36 PM by PeanutPunch33

[Guest]

14 hours ago, Wilson A2000 said:

When you outspend everyone else in the division, almost never win the division, and don’t have a particularly good farm system, why would anyone want to keep you?

some solid points

[PeanutPunch33]

Remember when Jed traded Contreras when he had 1.5 years of control and got a monster return?  Me neither.  Haha.  

Instead, he let him walk in free agency and got nothing in return.  Even though the Cubs were going nowhere fast and he traded every other member of the old core.  But the one guy that could actually bring back a monster return?  Nah.  

Nobody even talks about that one anymore.  His list of screw ups is so long.  It's hard to know where to begin. 

Bottom line - year 6 of a GM who's team is 37-35, who has the ability to outspend every other team in the division by 3x, and still has never come close to building a team that can win a pennant.  

I'm grateful for PCA, Brown, Busch, and Horton - but I don't have to pretend the guy is a competent GM.  In any other organization he would have been fired years ago.  

Edited Tuesday at 01:13 AM by PeanutPunch33

[sweetpeteman]

Fun fact, the supplemental pick they got for Contreras they completely wasted on some guy with a weirdly spelled name. Jaxon something.

 

 

 

(Also thanks Dusty for vetoing a trade for Urquidy)

[WhyCantWeWin]

The lack of World Series titles would be ok if they had some playoff success but Hoyer has literally accomplished nothing. Somehow the Brewers run circles around him while spending a third of the payroll he has. Pretty pathetic 

[731.4life]

On 6/13/2026 at 9:52 AM, Jason Ross said:

Huh? The Cubs have drafted really well outside of the 1st round. Jaxon Wiggins, Kane Kepley and Jackson Ferris have all logged top-100 rankings at one point or another and Ferris was used to bring in Michael Busch. Don't forget 2026 non-1sts like Josiah Hartshorn (popping on top-100s already) and Kaleb Wing (off to a flying start). There's also Zyhir Hope (top-50) traded for Busch and Jonathon Long as deep-picks. Brooks Caple is off to a great start this year, too. Don't forget Cam Smith being used for a full year of Kyle Tucker, Matt Shaw and Cade Horton (first round picks) as well. 

I get people want to blame Hoyer right now (I'm not inclined to say this is as much on him as the players) but his drafting and specifically the people who's been chosen to be around him to ensure good picks, is not one of them. There are legitimate gripes I can understand, this however, isn't a top-20 issue.

He's not a good GM, that's my opinion and I'm going to stick with it. 

When you look at the draft, I don't think there's a blueprint or foundation of how this team is built. When you look at the Cubs in the Theo days, it was obvious college hitters. When you look at Seattle today, it's mainly college pitching. I'm glad guys like Hartshorn and Kaleb Wing are off to great starts to the season, but as we have seen from Kevin Alcantara, we need those players to produce in the MLB when/if given the opportunity.

And we have seen Cubs farm players that haven't been able to produce in the MLB. First person that comes to mind is Luke Little, who just demoted to AA-Knoxville (even though I still prefer to call them Tennessee). Miguel Amaya has been average. I don't think it's a good thing we have two catchers playing, just like a NFL/college football having two QB's, just believe in the "if we have two QB's  (or catchers), then we really don't have a QB/catcher."  

Busch was a safe trade because the Dodgers can't play him because of Freddie Freeman. Nico is an okay player. We all know Dansby is great defensively but is average/below average offensively. Bregman is similar to Busch, a safe acquisition that filled a desire need. Outfield: Suzuki is average, Happ is good, and PCA is great defensively, and is hot offensively but an emotional train wreck at times.

I was watching the Rangers/Red Sox game on NBC, and one of the commentators said "when you look at the Rangers, in 2023, all of the hitters had career numbers. Now, they're just an average/bad offense team." I think that has perfectly described the Cubs in 2025.

Last season, Dansby had 144 hits which is the most he had with the Cubs so far. PCA was playing like an MVP for the first half of the season. Busch had 34 home runs which is a massive outlier so far in his career, he only has 8 this season. Seiya had a 30 homer/100RBI year and will go back into the 20-24 home run pace which is where he is usually at. Carson Kelly even went nuts last season. So our offense is playing at a career rate, and we all know that, only to see Willie Castro and Kittredge and Soroka as our trade deadline additions. We all know that wasn't going to be enough. 

Our starting pitcher doesn't have an A level arm, that's clear. Could've gone after Joe Ryan, but failed. Passed on Alcantara, Could've traded a young bat for a Seattle arm, but chose not to. Point being, the opportunities to address the starting pitching last season at the deadline hurt the team in the postseason play. Shota was toast and was terrible in Milwaukee. I mean, Collin Rea had a postseason start if I'm not mistaken. 

So we had guys that had career years last season, but we have failed to elevate the team and put them closer to the top. This team is not close and has not closed the gap on LA, which I know is hard. But Milwaukee is in much better shape than the Cubs, and I don't see there being any intentions to close that gap, too.

And as a result, we don't have a player that's in the top 5 in all-star voting at their respected positions. Jed is scared to make a big boy move (buying or selling) and it shows. That's just my opinion.

I want this team to win a World Series soon, but I'd rather for them to go 62-100 than consistently 85-77 and hope they can catch fire in the postseason, when we all know they can't make it past the NLDS/Dodgers.

[Jason Ross]

8 hours ago, 731.4life said:

He's not a good GM, that's my opinion and I'm going to stick with it. 

When you look at the draft, I don't think there's a blueprint or foundation of how this team is built. When you look at the Cubs in the Theo days, it was obvious college hitters. When you look at Seattle today, it's mainly college pitching. I'm glad guys like Hartshorn and Kaleb Wing are off to great starts to the season, but as we have seen from Kevin Alcantara, we need those players to produce in the MLB when/if given the opportunity.

And we have seen Cubs farm players that haven't been able to produce in the MLB. First person that comes to mind is Luke Little, who just demoted to AA-Knoxville (even though I still prefer to call them Tennessee). Miguel Amaya has been average. I don't think it's a good thing we have two catchers playing, just like a NFL/college football having two QB's, just believe in the "if we have two QB's  (or catchers), then we really don't have a QB/catcher."  

Busch was a safe trade because the Dodgers can't play him because of Freddie Freeman. Nico is an okay player. We all know Dansby is great defensively but is average/below average offensively. Bregman is similar to Busch, a safe acquisition that filled a desire need. Outfield: Suzuki is average, Happ is good, and PCA is great defensively, and is hot offensively but an emotional train wreck at times.

I was watching the Rangers/Red Sox game on NBC, and one of the commentators said "when you look at the Rangers, in 2023, all of the hitters had career numbers. Now, they're just an average/bad offense team." I think that has perfectly described the Cubs in 2025.

Last season, Dansby had 144 hits which is the most he had with the Cubs so far. PCA was playing like an MVP for the first half of the season. Busch had 34 home runs which is a massive outlier so far in his career, he only has 8 this season. Seiya had a 30 homer/100RBI year and will go back into the 20-24 home run pace which is where he is usually at. Carson Kelly even went nuts last season. So our offense is playing at a career rate, and we all know that, only to see Willie Castro and Kittredge and Soroka as our trade deadline additions. We all know that wasn't going to be enough. 

Our starting pitcher doesn't have an A level arm, that's clear. Could've gone after Joe Ryan, but failed. Passed on Alcantara, Could've traded a young bat for a Seattle arm, but chose not to. Point being, the opportunities to address the starting pitching last season at the deadline hurt the team in the postseason play. Shota was toast and was terrible in Milwaukee. I mean, Collin Rea had a postseason start if I'm not mistaken. 

So we had guys that had career years last season, but we have failed to elevate the team and put them closer to the top. This team is not close and has not closed the gap on LA, which I know is hard. But Milwaukee is in much better shape than the Cubs, and I don't see there being any intentions to close that gap, too.

And as a result, we don't have a player that's in the top 5 in all-star voting at their respected positions. Jed is scared to make a big boy move (buying or selling) and it shows. That's just my opinion.

I want this team to win a World Series soon, but I'd rather for them to go 62-100 than consistently 85-77 and hope they can catch fire in the postseason, when we all know they can't make it past the NLDS/Dodgers.

I didn't say he was a good or bad GM here. I told you that your critique of his drafting was wrong. I also don't think you have any idea what you're talking about. You mentioned Kevin Alcantara. Why?

1. He was an IFA.
2. He was signed by the Yankees.
3. The Cubs traded Anthony Rizzo for him at the deadline

Literally nothing to do with, the draft. You mention a Cubs system that has failed to produce talent. Your example? A fourth round pick from 2020 a historically weird draft. You didn't want to go with Pete Crow-Armstrong (leading the MLB in player fWAR who's name isn't Ohtani), Cade Horton, Matt Shaw, Pedro Ramirez, Justin Steele, Moises Ballesteros, Daniel Palencia, Ben Brown? These guys didn't come to your head first? Luke Little did? Way to be disingenuous. 

Then you go on a Dansby Rant and something about bad records. You want to talk draft? Talk draft. You wrote 1,000 words that boil down to "moving the goal posts" because you can't be mad about the draft any more so you picked a new thing. So I'll wait for your replay about the draft before I allow you to move the posts any further. 

[Jason Ross]

12 hours ago, PeanutPunch33 said:

Calling Jed a good GM is mighty generous.  

The Cubs are loaded with terrible contracts across the infield, they don’t have any great hitting prospects in the pipeline and they have only 2 cornerstone players in the lineup after 6 years in Busch and PCA.  The rotation has no velocity outside of 1 or 2 guys, the bullpen has no velocity outside of 1 or 2 guys.  Their best pitcher in their lone playoff year was a 34 year old journeyman who almost certainly will never have a season like that again.  

It’s just not been good enough.  

0 pennants in 6 seasons, 1 playoff appearance in 6 seasons and a team devoid of high end talent.  

Don’t get how that impresses anyone.

Let's start here: how many "cornerstone" (I horsefeathers hate when we create words like this because they have no set meaning and you can play "move the goalposts" however you see fit, but for now, I'll play along) players do other teams have in their lineup 7+ years out? Almost no team does. The Cubs have about any many as any other team because the only "corner stone" players signed 6+ years are either:
1. Former FAs, meaning they're probably around 29-30 when they signed and in six years will be 36 (they're not going to be very good any more).
2. Are a very young player and while a few of these elite-elite prospects sign the long-term extensions, many do not. So while they'll remain a "corner stone" in six years most will either have to extend out later or be a free agent.

In fact, the Cubs have one of those players in the number 2 category: Pete Crow-Armstrong (more on him to come later)! 

The broader point is that when we begin inventing things to be pissy about, we know we aren't starting from a logical stand point. Yes, the Cubs have "zero pennants" in six years but most teams do. That's an incredibly small amount of time. And lets also point this out: one of those six years was 2021 when the Cubs cut budget, one of those years is 2022 when the Cubs were clearly trying to be bad because they had to cut budget and you can't fix a team in one year, and one of those six years is 2026 which hasn't ended yet so blaming him for 2026 already is stupid. They had three teams where they had budget and some semblance of talent. Is that partially on Hoyer? Yeah probably. But they've gone with a .500 record in each of those years and were a game away from the NLCS last year, so maybe we can be a little more fair, here, too, no?

And to say the Cubs don't have "high end talent". Buddy, Pete horsefeathers Crow Armstrong the guy I already mentioned is literally leading the NL in fWAR for position players and it isn't like this is the first time he's had a good year. Just stop. Either be fair and fair or just say you're a blind Jed Hoyer hater. Because you're not being objective, you're just trying to find pain points to be mad about.

And before anyone twists my words or adds something I didn't type: no I don't think the Cubs have been amazing. I just think the outcomes Jed Hoyer is producing, which is a team capable of being consistently good (the Cubs are trending towards a fourth straight winning record as of today and a good shot at a playoff birth) while not elite is what most VP's of baseball would produce. It's a good outcome. He avoids disaster and comes up short of elite. You can improve on Hoyer, but it isn't as easy as "fire Jed and just hire someone" either and so many people act like it's that easy. The Mets did that with David Sterns and it isn't that easy.

[mul21]

How many of the people pissing and moaning about Jed in this thread were upset in the offseason about:

1. Signing Bregman

2. Bringing back Thielbar

3. Signing Milner

4. Signing Harvey

5. Signing Maton

6. Trading for Cabrera

As a whole, this was looked at as a pretty successful offseason and knowing that they'd be getting Steele back at some point on top of having a rotation of Horton, Boyd, Cabrera, Imanaga, and Taillon with Assad, Wicks, and Brown seemed like almost too much depth, but here we are scraping the bottom of the barrel for starting pitchers because injuries happen.

If you predicted the offense, Bregman included, would completely tank for an entire month then you should probably buy a lottery ticket or move to Vegas because you're obviously psychic.  The season so far has been disappointing and maybe you can gripe about the way certain things have been handled, but is making a change going to lead to winning more games?  At the end of the day, the players have to play well and I think it's pretty obvious based on how some guys have developed (PCA and Horton in particular) that the coaching staff knows what they're doing and are giving guys the right tools to succeed and if they aren't it's on them and maybe it's time for different players.

 

 

 

[squally1313]

5 minutes ago, mul21 said:

How many of the people pissing and moaning about Jed in this thread were upset in the offseason about:

1. Signing Bregman

2. Bringing back Thielbar

3. Signing Milner

4. Signing Harvey

5. Signing Maton

6. Trading for Cabrera

As a whole, this was looked at as a pretty successful offseason and knowing that they'd be getting Steele back at some point on top of having a rotation of Horton, Boyd, Cabrera, Imanaga, and Taillon with Assad, Wicks, and Brown seemed like almost too much depth, but here we are scraping the bottom of the barrel for starting pitchers because injuries happen.

If you predicted the offense, Bregman included, would completely tank for an entire month then you should probably buy a lottery ticket or move to Vegas because you're obviously psychic.  The season so far has been disappointing and maybe you can gripe about the way certain things have been handled, but is making a change going to lead to winning more games?  At the end of the day, the players have to play well and I think it's pretty obvious based on how some guys have developed (PCA and Horton in particular) that the coaching staff knows what they're doing and are giving guys the right tools to succeed and if they aren't it's on them and maybe it's time for different players.

 

 

 

I generally agree here but I think there's a fair amount of criticism that should be directed at the pitching infrastructure. Cade Horton was the 7th overall pick, so I'm not sure how much developmental credit you can hand out, and while he's shown flashes of brilliance, he also likely won't take the mound until he turns 26 and up until that point he'll have given us 125 major league innings. I'm not smart enough to comprehend how much, if any, the organization's pitching approach/philosophy/training regimen impacts pitcher health, but it feels like we went from mediocre and healthy to bad and horribly injured pretty quickly. Who knows, maybe in August and September when the division is out of reach (again), we can hand out points for the shape the staff finally rounded into, but this whole annual event of scrambling around for 3 months trying to find the right guys off the scrap heap in games that still count is very tiring, and the Cubs being 27th in pitching fWAR this year (and 24th since the beginning of last year) is pretty unacceptable. Add to that that there's not a single pitcher in the system with anything resembling AAA success in a win now window, either due to injuries (again) (Wiggins) or ineffectiveness (waves at everyone else).

I'm consistently confused as to why the offense (3rd in fWAR YTD and since the beginning of last year) gets the lion's share of the criticism around here. It's not flashy, outside of our (Hoyer acquired/developed) stud centerfielder., but it's more than good I'm on record as having preferred Schwarber over Bregman last year, but I acknowledged that was a little irrational and also considering Schwarber resigned in Philly who knows if that was even realistic. But that's a marginal difference in overall production (Schwarber 2.0 fWAR, Bregman 1.3), the biggest value for me would have been maybe quieting some of the RISP complaining. 

Overall, he's been fine, I just think he kinda considers the bullpen/pitching in general a bit of a black box and has decided to throw elite defense at the problem. Which is fine, if you buy into the metrics it's probably an undervalued skill set, but there's only so far that can take you if you don't develop or bring in guys who can run elite strike out rates and/or keep the ball in the park. I don't really know how to solve that problem either, building an offense seems like a much more approachable concept, but also I'm just an idiot who thinks about this to avoid accounting work, but the guy getting paid to do this full time at an elite level.

[Outshined_One]

Part of what kills me is, on paper, the Cubs had a fantastic offseason this last go-round. People were pounding the table for Cabrera at the deadline, and Bregman was seen as a big ticket bat who could replace Tucker. FFS, people were bitching about PTR and how ownership never gives out deals to guys like Bregman up until his signing was announced. The only people who hated those acquisitions either didn't like Cabrera's injury history (fair, but SPs get injured all the time), thought Caissie should have been kept (TBD, but he's having a really rough rookie year), or they were that one weird guy who irrationally hated Bregman for being on the Astros team that cheated its way to the WS.

Don't pretend like these were bad deals at the time they were signed because of less than half a season of hindsight.

Also, what the horsefeathers is this?

10 hours ago, 731.4life said:

When you look at the draft, I don't think there's a blueprint or foundation of how this team is built. When you look at the Cubs in the Theo days, it was obvious college hitters. When you look at Seattle today, it's mainly college pitching. I'm glad guys like Hartshorn and Kaleb Wing are off to great starts to the season, but as we have seen from Kevin Alcantara, we need those players to produce in the MLB when/if given the opportunity.

And we have seen Cubs farm players that haven't been able to produce in the MLB.

Am I going insane not remembering the Cubs drafting Matt Shaw, Cam Smith, Cole Mathis, Ethan Conrad, and Kane Kepley with 1st and 2nd round picks? And how PCA spent two years in the Cubs system before being called up?

If you're going to go all meatball on this forum, at least come with receipts.

[mul21]

7 minutes ago, squally1313 said:

I generally agree here but I think there's a fair amount of criticism that should be directed at the pitching infrastructure. Cade Horton was the 7th overall pick, so I'm not sure how much developmental credit you can hand out, and while he's shown flashes of brilliance, he also likely won't take the mound until he turns 26 and up until that point he'll have given us 125 major league innings.

I was mostly thinking about his evolution once he got to MLB and how he started out with very little whiff in his game and by the end of last season he was bordering elite in that category.  Clearly some things changed from call up to the end of the season and I think you have to give a lot of credit to both him and the staff for the adjustments.  Overall though, I'm not sure why they can't figure out the pitching end of things in spite of what seems to be investing in the right things (tech, coaching, the science behind pitching, etc.) but it sure is infuriating to see every other team send 2-3 guys out every night throwing 98 out of the pen and we trot out Maton and Roberts at 93.

I'm 100% in agreement with you on the offense.  It's such a weird phenomenon to have happen multiple seasons in a row with guys who have pretty solid histories of success.  Happ has always been streaky, but to have the same thing happen to the entire lineup at the same time is just something you can't really account for.

[squally1313]

3 minutes ago, mul21 said:

I was mostly thinking about his evolution once he got to MLB and how he started out with very little whiff in his game and by the end of last season he was bordering elite in that category.  Clearly some things changed from call up to the end of the season and I think you have to give a lot of credit to both him and the staff for the adjustments.

Is this true when you look at whiff rate or whatever? Genuinely asking. Here was his K/9 rate by month last year:

• May: 7.08 K/9
• June: 6.20 K/9
• July: 6.46 K/9
• August: 9.30 K/9
• September: 7.45 K/9

Average K/9 rate this year is 8.46. Don't get me wrong, he pounded the zone and got ground balls (which are the two main things in front of Dansby and Nico) and, to get a little meatball-y, he seemed to have a little bit of an extra gear when he needed it. And maybe he still had/has an extra level where he'd start piling up Ks. But I think he was largely the same pitcher from debut through injury.

[mul21]

10 minutes ago, squally1313 said:

Is this true when you look at whiff rate or whatever? Genuinely asking. Here was his K/9 rate by month last year:

• May: 7.08 K/9
• June: 6.20 K/9
• July: 6.46 K/9
• August: 9.30 K/9
• September: 7.45 K/9

Average K/9 rate this year is 8.46. Don't get me wrong, he pounded the zone and got ground balls (which are the two main things in front of Dansby and Nico) and, to get a little meatball-y, he seemed to have a little bit of an extra gear when he needed it. And maybe he still had/has an extra level where he'd start piling up Ks. But I think he was largely the same pitcher from debut through injury.

I was thinking about his K/9, but man, going back and looking at his game logs he wasn't much better at the end of the season than when he came up.  He just felt like a very different pitcher at the end of the season than when he came up but I suppose getting Ks in big moments will have that effect on the brain.

[PeanutPunch33]

3 hours ago, Jason Ross said:

Let's start here: how many "cornerstone" (I horsefeathers hate when we create words like this because they have no set meaning and you can play "move the goalposts" however you see fit, but for now, I'll play along) players do other teams have in their lineup 7+ years out? Almost no team does. The Cubs have about any many as any other team because the only "corner stone" players signed 6+ years are either:
1. Former FAs, meaning they're probably around 29-30 when they signed and in six years will be 36 (they're not going to be very good any more).
2. Are a very young player and while a few of these elite-elite prospects sign the long-term extensions, many do not. So while they'll remain a "corner stone" in six years most will either have to extend out later or be a free agent.

In fact, the Cubs have one of those players in the number 2 category: Pete Crow-Armstrong (more on him to come later)! 

The broader point is that when we begin inventing things to be pissy about, we know we aren't starting from a logical stand point. Yes, the Cubs have "zero pennants" in six years but most teams do. That's an incredibly small amount of time. And lets also point this out: one of those six years was 2021 when the Cubs cut budget, one of those years is 2022 when the Cubs were clearly trying to be bad because they had to cut budget and you can't fix a team in one year, and one of those six years is 2026 which hasn't ended yet so blaming him for 2026 already is stupid. They had three teams where they had budget and some semblance of talent. Is that partially on Hoyer? Yeah probably. But they've gone with a .500 record in each of those years and were a game away from the NLCS last year, so maybe we can be a little more fair, here, too, no?

And to say the Cubs don't have "high end talent". Buddy, Pete horsefeathers Crow Armstrong the guy I already mentioned is literally leading the NL in fWAR for position players and it isn't like this is the first time he's had a good year. Just stop. Either be fair and fair or just say you're a blind Jed Hoyer hater. Because you're not being objective, you're just trying to find pain points to be mad about.

And before anyone twists my words or adds something I didn't type: no I don't think the Cubs have been amazing. I just think the outcomes Jed Hoyer is producing, which is a team capable of being consistently good (the Cubs are trending towards a fourth straight winning record as of today and a good shot at a playoff birth) while not elite is what most VP's of baseball would produce. It's a good outcome. He avoids disaster and comes up short of elite. You can improve on Hoyer, but it isn't as easy as "fire Jed and just hire someone" either and so many people act like it's that easy. The Mets did that with David Sterns and it isn't that easy.

Okay, there's a lot to unpack here but let me just start by saying it's funny that you write 4 paragraphs ardently defending the guy, right after you call him a good GM, just to leave yourself an out "by the way, I'm not saying the Cubs have been amazing".  Lol what exactly is the point of a baseball GM?  To produce teams that are "not amazing?".  I'm not twisting your words, those are your own words being repeated back to you.  The Cubs are hardly better off today (year 6 of this GM) than they were the day he inherited a wildcard team at the end of 2020.  

Anyways, you are hyper focused on the "cornerstone" comment while ignoring literally every other point I made - why don't you discuss the abomination that is this starting rotation?  How's the Phil Maton signing going?  How many guys do they have in this bullpen that can throw 97+ mph?  Lol one or two?  Why is the lack of velocity a year-over-year issue if he's a good GM?

"The Cubs have 0 pennants in 6 years but most teams do" ... yeah most teams can't spend $250 million on payroll and have basically unlimited resources to build a baseball team.  Also, 6 years is not an "incredibly small amount of time".  Most GMs are out of a job by then or on the hot seat if there aren't serious results on the field.  See:  Chaim Bloom, Jerry Dipoto, Ben Cherington, Kevin Towers, Al Avila, (fired after his 7th season), Farhan Zaidi.  

Now, I'll discuss your "cornerstone" rebuttal:  at the end of the day, GMs have to be measured relative to each other.  The White Sox rebuilt their entire lineup in what, year 3 of a new GM.  Do you think the White Sox have a fraction of the resources or analytics infrastructure that the Cubs have?  The Brewers rebuild their team every few years.  The Cardinals always seem to have young studs on the way.  Even in the years they aren't great, it's never due to a lack of young talent.  I'd argue that even the Pirates are now better positioned for the future than the Cubs are.  If you don't think 6 years is enough time to build a contending team, take a look around the league.  Hell, look around the division. 

Yes, PCA is playing like a mega-star and Hoyer deserves credit for that.  It was strongly implied in my comment that the Cubs need more than one player like that (like, you know, every other contending team has).  Aside from PCA, he got next to nothing for Bryant, Rizzo, Schwarber, Contreras.  His drafts haven't been great... his free agent signings haven't been great... so what exactly makes him "pretty good"?   He also signed Swanson to a mega contract during the supposed "budget cut" that you keep referencing.  Maybe there was a budget cut after that because the owner didn't trust the GM to spend his money on mediocre players?  

Anyways, it seems like you concede that Hoyer can be upgraded and as long as that's your position - everything else we discuss is just air.  I agree that they can't just pick a random guy to replace him lol. But, they absolutely should be trying to be great instead of settling for mediocre or average.

The Hoyer situation reminds a bit of when the Giants fired Farhan Zaidi, tbh.  I don't see why Jed's fate should be any different.  

Edited Tuesday at 02:43 PM by PeanutPunch33

[PeanutPunch33]

1 hour ago, mul21 said:

How many of the people pissing and moaning about Jed in this thread were upset in the offseason about:

1. Signing Bregman

2. Bringing back Thielbar

3. Signing Milner

4. Signing Harvey

5. Signing Maton

6. Trading for Cabrera

As a whole, this was looked at as a pretty successful offseason and knowing that they'd be getting Steele back at some point on top of having a rotation of Horton, Boyd, Cabrera, Imanaga, and Taillon with Assad, Wicks, and Brown seemed like almost too much depth, but here we are scraping the bottom of the barrel for starting pitchers because injuries happen.

If you predicted the offense, Bregman included, would completely tank for an entire month then you should probably buy a lottery ticket or move to Vegas because you're obviously psychic.  The season so far has been disappointing and maybe you can gripe about the way certain things have been handled, but is making a change going to lead to winning more games?  At the end of the day, the players have to play well and I think it's pretty obvious based on how some guys have developed (PCA and Horton in particular) that the coaching staff knows what they're doing and are giving guys the right tools to succeed and if they aren't it's on them and maybe it's time for different players.

 

 

 

I personally hate the talking point of (paraphrasing) "how many people here were upset when X happened..."

Sure, if we are comparing Jed to a couple of drunk dummies at the bar, he checks out as a good GM. 

But Jed is supposed to be a professional who makes a lot of money to make these decisions, with endless resources and analytics to make better decisions than he has to date.  He has access to everything from player medical records to their former teammates to every little analytic you can think of.  With a staff of what, 200+ at his disposal to do these things.  

I was happy when the Cubs got Bregman for sure and honestly, that move is the least of my worries at the moment.  I think a lot of people knew from day 1 that the Swanson acquisition would be a disaster, that the Cabrera move would not work out, that getting Taillon was pointless when the team was supposed to be rebuilding.  

This GM had a ready made excuse to spend 3 seasons tanking and use that time to build up a loaded team like Theo did, like the White Sox are currently doing, like the Brewers wouldn't hesitate to do if it was in their interest.  Instead, he basically immediately signs Dansby Swanson, signs Taillon, signs Suzuki, I believe they also signed Tucker Barnhart (lol).  

He wanted to compete right away and not only have the Cubs not really competed, they also don't have much young talent on the way.  He should have picked a direction and stuck with it instead of just producing average teams every single season.  

[Jason Ross]

7 minutes ago, PeanutPunch33 said:

Okay, there's a lot to unpack here but let me just start by saying it's funny that you write 4 paragraphs ardently defending the guy, right after you call him a good GM, just to leave yourself an out "by the way, I'm not saying the Cubs have been amazing".  Lol what exactly is the point of a baseball GM?  To produce teams that are "not amazing?".  I'm not twisting your words, those are your own words being repeated back to you.  The Cubs are hardly better off today (year 6 of this GM) than they were the day he inherited a wildcard team at the end of 2020.  

Anyways, you are hyper focused on the "cornerstone" comment while ignoring literally every other point I made - why don't you discuss the abomination that is this starting rotation?  How's the Phil Maton signing going?  How many guys do they have in this bullpen that can throw 97+ mph?  Lol one or two?  Why is the lack of velocity a year-over-year issue if he's a good GM?

"The Cubs have 0 pennants in 6 years but most teams do" ... yeah most teams can't spend $250 million on payroll and have basically unlimited resources to build a baseball team.  Also, 6 years is not an "incredibly small amount of time".  Most GMs are out of a job by then or on the hot seat if there aren't serious results on the field.  See:  Chaim Bloom, Jerry Dipoto, Ben Cherington, Al Avila, Kevin Towers, (fired after his 7th season), Farhan Zaidi.  

Now, I'll discuss your "cornerstone" rebuttal:  at the end of the day, GMs have to be measured relative to each other.  The White Sox rebuilt their entire lineup in what, year 3 of a new GM.  Do you think the White Sox have a fraction of the resources or analytics infrastructure that the Cubs have?  The Brewers rebuild their team every few years.  The Cardinals always seem to have young studs on the way.  Even in the years they aren't great, it's never due to a lack of young talent.  I'd argue that even the Pirates are now better positioned for the future than the Cubs are.  If you don't think 6 years is enough time to build a contending team, take a look around the league.  Hell, look around the division. 

Yes, PCA is playing like a mega-star and Hoyer deserves credit for that.  It was strongly implied in my comment that the Cubs need more than one player like that (like, you know, every other contending team has).  Aside from PCA, he got next to nothing for Bryant, Rizzo, Schwarber, Contreras.  His drafts haven't been great... his free agent signings haven't been great... so what exactly makes him "pretty good"?   He also signed Swanson to a mega contract during the supposed "budget cut" that you keep referencing.  Maybe there was a budget cut after that because the owner didn't trust the GM to spend his money on mediocre players?  

Anyways, it seems like you concede that Hoyer can be upgraded and as long as that's your position - everything else we discuss is just air.  I agree that they can't just pick a random guy to replace him lol. But, they absolutely should be trying to be great instead of settling for mediocre or average.

The Hoyer situation reminds a bit of when the Giants fired Farhan Zaidi, tbh.  I don't see why Jed's fate should be any different.  

I'll just cut to the chase: the Giants fired Zaidi for Buster Posey. How's that going for them?

[mul21]

1 minute ago, PeanutPunch33 said:

The Hoyer situation reminds a bit of when the Giants fired Farhan Zaidi, tbh.  I don't see why Jed's fate should be any different.  

How's that working out for them?  I only say that because I think people get hung up on great and there's a lot of room between where the Cubs have been the last 3-4 years and where the Pirates are perpetually stuck or where the Giants seem to be right now.