Royals (Cameron) vs Cubs (Brasier): 7/21/25, 7:05pm

[Geographyhater8888]

Cubs have now been outscored 97-42 in their last 12 losses and 41-8 in their last 5 losses while bring blown out in 7 of their last 12 losses, a recent trend that hopefully is rectified by adding another starter.

[Geographyhater8888]

3 hours ago, Stratos said:

They seem to do that with outsiders they acquire, yet all the SP they develop throw batting practice fastballs.  Maybe it's a coincidence, who knows.  I'm just venting and ranting like a madman.

Cade Horton and Jordan wicks are the only 2 pitchers on the active roster they’ve invested first round picks in. Could play a part.

Edited July 22, 2025 by Geographyhater8888

[Geographyhater8888]

5 hours ago, Jason Ross said:

Really good pitchers can have a bad 5-6 starts. They are still really good. Just like sucky pitchers can have good runs for 36 innings! 

Chris Flexen probably sucks. But he way overperformed for the Cubs and I am thankful for that. I dont want to sound ungrateful, but he is likely as bad of an option to start a game as Brown is. 

Isn’t that most of the pitching staff? You have 3 gold glove caliber infielders, the best defensive center fielder in baseball pitching in Wrigley with the wind blowing in in the majority of games, it seems to be Jed’s roster building strategy centered around pitch to contact arms and relying on DRS. 
 

Ill defer to you on this but from the baked eye this seems like part of Jed’s fan.

[Brian707]

Why do i bother reading the game thread after a loss? The doom and gloom is so predictable 

Edited July 22, 2025 by Brian707

[Jason Ross]

3 hours ago, Geographyhater8888 said:

Isn’t that most of the pitching staff? You have 3 gold glove caliber infielders, the best defensive center fielder in baseball pitching in Wrigley with the wind blowing in in the majority of games, it seems to be Jed’s roster building strategy centered around pitch to contact arms and relying on DRS. 
 

Ill defer to you on this but from the baked eye this seems like part of Jed’s fan.

Part of our pitching is predicated on throwing so much spaghetti on the wall that some still stick, sure. But within that is also knowing when to pull the plug and that the clock has struck midnight. 

Chris Flexen has been playing with fire. He has gotten lucky to maintain run prevention. He has been far better at that for longer than I expected. 

But it is also probably midnight and Flexen is likely to turn back into a pumpkin. I appreciate what he gave us, but it doesnt make him a strong starting option.

[Geographyhater8888]

36 minutes ago, Jason Ross said:

Part of our pitching is predicated on throwing so much spaghetti on the wall that some still stick, sure. But within that is also knowing when to pull the plug and that the clock has struck midnight. 

Chris Flexen has been playing with fire. He has gotten lucky to maintain run prevention. He has been far better at that for longer than I expected. 

But it is also probably midnight and Flexen is likely to turn back into a pumpkin. I appreciate what he gave us, but it doesnt make him a strong starting option.

I veered off topic there. I was speaking in general. Taillon, Rae, Stroman, drafting Wicks, Assad, Thompson all profile similarly. Horton is the only pitcher drafted that has the ability to miss bats.. It just seems he goes for the higher floor guys. Which of course could be chalked up to scarcity and payroll restrictions but a lot of sinker ballers with low 90’s heat. 

Edited July 22, 2025 by Geographyhater8888

[squally1313]

7 hours ago, JBears79 said:

To even possibly be considered competitive they need two ace caliber pitchers, a mid rotation guy, two lock down pen arms and a 3B to shift Shaw to the bench. 

We need 6 upgrades, most of them major, to possibly be considered competitive with (checks notes) the two teams that are a game better than us and 27 teams who have an equal or worse record than us.

[Jason Ross]

42 minutes ago, Geographyhater8888 said:

I veered off topic there. I was speaking in general. Taillon, Rae, Stroman, drafting Wicks, Assad, Thompson all profile similarly. Horton is the only pitcher drafted that has the ability to miss bats.. It just seems he goes for the higher floor guys. Which of course could be chalked up to scarcity and payroll restrictions but a lot of sinker ballers with low 90’s heat. 

I wouldn't agree with that. The Cubs draft plenty of upside arms. Cade Horton, Jaxon Wiggins, Jackson Ferris were drafted in the top two rounds in the last three years. They have also draft upside prep arms like JP Wheat and Naz Mule. They do target largely college bats in the top-2 rounds but arms are volatile and it isnt like the Cubs arent drafting college bats well when they do. They are largely praised, have almost all had success. 

Pitchers take a good amount of time, can randomly miss 1.5 years with surgery and stuff at young ate generally comes with a red flag of command issues. 

The Cubs have prioritized strike throwing recently. Sure. But their goal pitching wise has been quality arms regardless of how they do it. And despite the lack of "power" at times, they have generally succeeded. Shota throws 90 and gets good wiff. Steele throws low 90s and strikes out plenty. Pitching is an issue this year but that is in large part due to injuries. They lost Steele immediately, lost Shota a month, lost Taillon...its been an uphill battle. I'll admit I always thought the staff was one short and we are seeing that now.

[Rcal10]

Any chance we see Wiggins in the pen this year? This would limit his innings and also possibly really help the pen. 

[squally1313]

Just now, Jason Ross said:

I wouldn't agree with that. The Cubs draft plenty of upside arms. Cade Horton, Jaxon Wiggins, Jackson Ferris were drafted in the top two rounds in the last three years. They have also draft upside prep arms like JP Wheat and Naz Mule. 

Pitchers take a good amount of time, can randomly miss 1.5 years with surgery and stuff at young ate generally comes with a red flag of command issues. 

The Cubs have prioritized strike throwing recently. Sure. But their goal pitching wise has been quality arms regardless of how they do it. And despite the lack of "power" at times, they have generally succeeded. Shota throws 90 and gets good wiff. Steele throws low 90s and strikes out plenty. 

I think part of the idea that we draft low ceiling guys is that, to overly boil it down to two buckets, you're either going to draft high floor or high ceiling (with someone like Horton in both buckets being a rare exception), and the nature of those two types of pitchers is that unless you're a prospect nerd digging into the lower levels, you're going to see more of the high floor guys showing up in Iowa or making appearances in Chicago. The high ceiling guys are just going to hit less, so the 'average' fan sees less of them and thinks they aren't a priority. 

[Jason Ross]

21 minutes ago, squally1313 said:

I think part of the idea that we draft low ceiling guys is that, to overly boil it down to two buckets, you're either going to draft high floor or high ceiling (with someone like Horton in both buckets being a rare exception), and the nature of those two types of pitchers is that unless you're a prospect nerd digging into the lower levels, you're going to see more of the high floor guys showing up in Iowa or making appearances in Chicago. The high ceiling guys are just going to hit less, so the 'average' fan sees less of them and thinks they aren't a priority. 

A great observation as well! 

Its much more likely a Will Sanders will make an MLB start than, say, JP Wheat. Wheat throws 100mph and it's super cool but the distance he has to go to be an MLB starter and Will Sanders is huge. If everything breaks right, Wheat will be a better pitcher but Sanders had a shorter distance to travel from 5th round SEC pitcher than Wheat as a prep arm.

[Geographyhater8888]

1 hour ago, squally1313 said:

I think part of the idea that we draft low ceiling guys is that, to overly boil it down to two buckets, you're either going to draft high floor or high ceiling (with someone like Horton in both buckets being a rare exception), and the nature of those two types of pitchers is that unless you're a prospect nerd digging into the lower levels, you're going to see more of the high floor guys showing up in Iowa or making appearances in Chicago. The high ceiling guys are just going to hit less, so the 'average' fan sees less of them and thinks they aren't a priority. 

There’s no question Jed doesn’t want a top of the rotation flame thrower, if you don’t value them you wouldn’t have a job. He’s drafted 2 pitchers in the first round and 1 of them is that high floor bust Jordan Wicks. The Cubs have the lowest average velocity of any team in baseball at under 92 mph. Whether you’re an average fan, above average fan, elite fan or a person who’s awful at being a fan of baseball it kind of pops out regardless of what Jed’s motivations are and the circumstances are surrounding it. It likely is a residual effect of Theo prioritizing position players as well, which is one of those circumstances and it’s taking time to develop those power arms. 

 

 

Edited July 22, 2025 by Geographyhater8888

[CubinNY]

31 minutes ago, Jason Ross said:

A great observation as well! 

Its much more likely a Will Sanders will make an MLB start than, say, JP Wheat. Wheat throws 100mph and it's super cool but the distance he has to go to be an MLB starter and Will Sanders is huge. If everything breaks right, Wheat will be a better pitcher but Sanders had a shorter distance to travel from 5th round SEC pitcher than Wheat as a prep arm.

I think Wheat might be dead. 

[Geographyhater8888]

27 minutes ago, Jason Ross said:

A great observation as well! 

It’s much more likely a Will Sanders will make an MLB start than, say, JP Wheat. Wheat throws 100mph and it's super cool but the distance he has to go to be an MLB starter and Will Sanders is huge. If everything breaks right, Wheat will be a better pitcher but Sanders had a shorter distance to travel from 5th round SEC pitcher than Wheat as a prep arm.

Ben Brown is a just as cool. JP Wheats knuckle curve isn’t as nasty I bet 

[CubinNY]

The Cubs are likely to make the playoffs, at the very least. 

If they make it into the playoffs, they will need to be playing great baseball at the time they start, have a solid top-three pitching rotation, and a lockdown closer. 

So.. They need a TOR pitcher. 

The horsefeathers Brewers aren't going to win every game. But they do have the ingredients to go far in the playoffs. I don't think their offense is good enough, but let's see what happens at the deadline.  

[Geographyhater8888]

1 hour ago, Jason Ross said:

I wouldn't agree with that. The Cubs draft plenty of upside arms. Cade Horton, Jaxon Wiggins, Jackson Ferris were drafted in the top two rounds in the last three years. They have also draft upside prep arms like JP Wheat and Naz Mule. They do target largely college bats in the top-2 rounds but arms are volatile and it isnt like the Cubs arent drafting college bats well when they do. They are largely praised, have almost all had success. 

Pitchers take a good amount of time, can randomly miss 1.5 years with surgery and stuff at young ate generally comes with a red flag of command issues. 

The Cubs have prioritized strike throwing recently. Sure. But their goal pitching wise has been quality arms regardless of how they do it. And despite the lack of "power" at times, they have generally succeeded. Shota throws 90 and gets good wiff. Steele throws low 90s and strikes out plenty. Pitching is an issue this year but that is in large part due to injuries. They lost Steele immediately, lost Shota a month, lost Taillon...its been an uphill battle. I'll admit I always thought the staff was one short and we are seeing that now.

So scarcity and payroll restrictions seem to be one of themes. Maybe the residual effects of Theo going heavy on position players especially in round 1 as well.

[mul21]

Just now, Geographyhater8888 said:

So scarcity and payroll restrictions seem to be one of themes. Maybe the residual effects of Theo going heavy on position players especially in round 1 as well.

I think the lack of pitching development as a whole during the Theo era is still rearing its ugly head.  It's really what killed that "wave" of Cubs success and has certainly carried over into Jed's regime.

[Derwood]

9 hours ago, JBears79 said:

He manages to build one team that might sneak into the playoffs in 5 years, And even if they do manage to sneak into the playoffs they wont go anywhere. This is an extremely overrated team. There are massive holes in the pitching staff, LF, the bench, the bullpen.  We have zero depth anywhere. To even possibly be considered competitive they need two ace caliber pitchers, a mid rotation guy, two lock down pen arms and a 3B to shift Shaw to the bench. 

The Brewers have won exactly zero championships in their history

[Jason Ross]

37 minutes ago, Geographyhater8888 said:

So scarcity and payroll restrictions seem to be one of themes. Maybe the residual effects of Theo going heavy on position players especially in round 1 as well.

I think we are well beyond the Theo era ramifications. But I do think the Cubs have to operate on more of a budget than needed and it does create a situation where they need to be crafty at times. 

Hopefully that as the Cubs have more and more prospects (and thus cheap contracts) that they can spend more of the budget they do have on upper level players. 

The Matt Shaws, Pete Crow-Armstrongs and the like will be important to allow that. Cheap, young starters are worth their weight in gold.

[Soul]

8 minutes ago, Derwood said:

The Brewers have won exactly zero championships in their history

Brewers are good at everything, bad at nothing, and great at nothing.  My sense is that adds up to a lot of fun regular season baseball and a lot of early playoff exits.

Perhaps the best approach is to be the #1 WC team and don’t worry about them winning the division.  WC teams can and do sometimes have better post seasons.

Edited July 22, 2025 by Soul

[Outshined_One]

29 minutes ago, mul21 said:

I think the lack of pitching development as a whole during the Theo era is still rearing its ugly head.  It's really what killed that "wave" of Cubs success and has certainly carried over into Jed's regime.

This cannot be emphasized enough.  The Cubs were able to paper over their rotation deficiencies through trades and FA acquisitions over the last decade, but this team was unable to develop starter quality pitching prospects up until recently, be it due to inability, injury, or luck.

Steele was a middling LHP prospect until he somehow figured things out when they stretched him out (which is why I have *some* hope Wicks can turn it around) and Horton looks legit, but things were barren on the pitching front up until the last few years.  Remember Brailyn Marquez and Ryan Jensen?  How about Thomas Hatch?  Dillon Maples ring any bells?

Things seem to have improved compared to where the system was a few years ago, and I think there's room for optimism in the system right now, but right now those deficiencies are hammering the Cubs' pitching depth.

[Backtobanks]

14 hours ago, chibears55 said:

Tauchman would be great but him getting AB with this team would be limited unless they give Zuki even less or no PT in the OF because Tauchman can spell all 3 OFers and give them each a full day off every week.

Whatever ABs he gets would be quality ABs as opposed to Brujan, Berti, and Turner (against RHP).

[BigSlick]

Ok, I like getting hysterical in game threads. It’s how I blow off steam. I think it’s fun.

 

but characterizing this team as “barely squeaking into the playoffs” is laughable. The team, this very moment, glides into the playoffs easily and with confidence and only doesn’t get a bye because the best record in baseball is one win ahead of them. Grow up. 

[JBears79]

2 hours ago, squally1313 said:

We need 6 upgrades, most of them major, to possibly be considered competitive with (checks notes) the two teams that are a game better than us and 27 teams who have an equal or worse record than us.

Yes. This team is not capable of a WS win as constructed. 

[squally1313]

Just now, JBears79 said:

Yes. This team is not capable of a WS win as constructed. 

Why haven’t the teams that are capable of winning the World Series won more games