Going somewhere, Soto? Yes, to the Yankees

[JD94]

9 minutes ago, CubinNY said:

there is no pivot. 

How is there not a pivot?

[Bull]

1 hour ago, CubinNY said:

Ohtani = 50M for X years

Soto +Hoskins + mystery picture = 50M for one year, $X for X years for mystery pitcher 

2024 = 50M, 2025 and beyond = less than that, all things being equal

-------------------

However, I'd be kind of pissed if Jed spent the capital to get Soto (because it is going to hurt regardless of one year or not) and didn't have a plan to resign him. That would not be ideal to say the least. 

There's no way Soto doesn't test the market, right?

[CubinNY]

2 minutes ago, Bull said:

There's no way Soto doesn't test the market, right?

I don't know. There is a myth that Boras clients don't sign without. If the Cubs handed him a contract that was too good to refuse Who knows? 

[Rcal10]

4 hours ago, squally1313 said:

Just like how PCA, Canario, Mervis, Kilian, Wesneski, etc are all ready to step in to be key performers on opening day next year?

The Chicago Cubs should not be avoiding long term deals for fear of blocking prospects. 

I am not sure that is what this discussion is about, but I agree 100% with your post. I find myself responding like this often. 

[Tim]

Absolutely nobody was saying that PCA was ready to step in as opening day starter in 2023.

Canario couldn't even take the field until July because of his injuiries.

Nobody was relying on Kilian after how he ended last year.

[squally1313]

9 minutes ago, Tim said:

Absolutely nobody was saying that PCA was ready to step in as opening day starter in 2023.

Canario couldn't even take the field until July because of his injuiries.

Nobody was relying on Kilian after how he ended last year.

No one is saying Shaw should be the opening day starter next year either. But all those guys were highly thought of this time last year. And I'm not saying they're worthless, I'm saying things change, quickly, and a big market team especially shouldn't be pointing towards dudes in AA as a way to justify short term deals. 

[JD94]

Yeah I don’t think anybody is saying “punt 3B until June because Shaw might be ready then.” I assumed it was understood that if we go land some combo of Ohtani, Soto, Alonso, Hoskins, Bellinger, etc, that maybe we’d be okay just treading water at 3B while we figure out if Shaw will be ready this year and get another year of data on him, especially since it seems they want to move him along quickly as long as he can handle it. Re-assess next offseason about 3B. Nobody is saying “Shaw will step in at 3B in July, so don’t waste any money there.” If we do enough other things, we can probably slide by at 3B with Madrigal/Wisdom/prospects/cheap FA’s/maybe a Tim Anderson type flier. 

Edited November 16, 2023 by JD94

[Jason Ross]

Per Andy Martino (NY Post)

Trade talks between the Padres and the Yankees regarding Juan Soto have progressed to a point of exchanging names, though the ask was "very high" and the two sides are not close.

Edited November 29, 2023 by 1908_Cubs

[Tryptamine]

14 minutes ago, 1908_Cubs said:

Per Andy Martino (NY Post)

Trade talks between the Padres and the Yankees regarding Juan Soto have progressed to a point of exchanging names, though the ask was "very high" and the two sides are not close.

Can you imagine how pissed off this board is going to be if Jed whiffs on all 3 of Ohtani, Yamamoto and Soto after all this hype?

[Brian707]

3 minutes ago, Tryptamine said:

Can you imagine how pissed off this board is going to be if Jed whiffs on all 3 of Ohtani, Yamamoto and Soto after all this hype?

Do you think there is at least a 50/50 chance he wiffs on all 3? 

[Tryptamine]

Just now, Brian707 said:

Do you think there is at least a 50/50 chance he wiffs on all 3? 

Just reading the tea leaves, but I think Yamamoto is very unlikely and seems to be the main off season focus for a bunch of other teams, while he seems to be secondary to Ohtani for the Cubs. I do believe the Cubs are all in on Ohtani, but the Chicago sports fan in me has been stuck dealing with dumpster fires for too long to be optimistic on that front. I'm hoping for more but I'm expecting an offseason like Imanaga, Candelario and Hoskins.

[JD94]

IF Jed is set on pivoting to Soto should he miss on Ohtani, I doubt he just lets Soto go to the Yankees while he waits out Ohtani. I’d bet he tells SD to hold tight a few more days to see what happens with Ohtani first. At this point, Jed knows what it will take to get Ohtani, how close he is to deciding, and if he has a realistic shot to land him. I’m sure he also knows what it would take to get Soto as well. I’ll trust his judgment here assuming that he does want to do whatever it takes to walk away with one of Soto/Ohtani. 

[Bobson Dugnutt]

47 minutes ago, 1908_Cubs said:

Per Andy Martino (NY Post)

Trade talks between the Padres and the Yankees regarding Juan Soto have progressed to a point of exchanging names, though the ask was "very high" and the two sides are not close.

I’ve never really understood this. What do they talk about before they talk about names?

[JD94]

Just now, Bobson Dugnutt said:

I’ve never really understood this. What do they talk about before they talk about names?

Right. Like they’ve been in discussion for days/weeks but they are just now discussing names? Lol no. Names were thrown out on the first phone call. 

[Rcal10]

31 minutes ago, Tryptamine said:

Just reading the tea leaves, but I think Yamamoto is very unlikely and seems to be the main off season focus for a bunch of other teams, while he seems to be secondary to Ohtani for the Cubs. I do believe the Cubs are all in on Ohtani, but the Chicago sports fan in me has been stuck dealing with dumpster fires for too long to be optimistic on that front. I'm hoping for more but I'm expecting an offseason like Imanaga, Candelario and Hoskins.

So, just curious, if instead of Candelario they sign Bellinger. Then they trade PCA for a stud young controlled young pitcher and they keep Morel wouldn’t this team still be the favorite in the central? Maybe 3rd  and DH is filled with Madrigal/Wisdom/Mastroboni/Morel. Or maybe they make a smaller trade for Solano and let him play 3rd. Morel just is the DH. I think that team still wins. 
Yes, it’s not what I want. Might be plan C, but still a good off season. 
 

And if the Yankees are going to get Soto in a trade doesn’t that take them out of Ohtani and Bellinger? Doesn’t that raise the chances of at least Bellinger back to the Cubs?

Edited November 29, 2023 by Rcal10

[Jason Ross]

15 minutes ago, Bobson Dugnutt said:

I’ve never really understood this. What do they talk about before they talk about names?

I was thinking the same thing. It feels like that's where you'd start, but maybe that's why no one wants me to run their MLB franchise, either. 

[Bertz]

23 minutes ago, Bobson Dugnutt said:

I’ve never really understood this. What do they talk about before they talk about names?

I think I've read they often talk in generalities.  Like if you use the Future Value parlance that Fangraphs uses you might say "Juan Soto for Chris Morel and a couple of 40 FVs" and then after agreeing to the framework haggle about who those specific 40 FVs will be.

I'd be shocked if Soto gets dealt before Ohtani signs.  Even if we hear about a Soto deal first, it's likely that Ohtani already happened and it just took longer for word to get out.  Preller would be incredibly dumb to not use that extra leverage of Ohtani being off the board, even if he had a deal he'd be satisfied with already in hand.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

2 minutes ago, Bertz said:

I'd be shocked if Soto gets dealt before Ohtani signs.  Even if we hear about a Soto deal first, it's likely that Ohtani already happened and it just took longer for word to get out.  Preller would be incredibly dumb to not use that extra leverage of Ohtani being off the board, even if he had a deal he'd be satisfied with already in hand.

I agree with this, under the assumption that Ohtani is deciding somewhat soon.  Preller wants to maximize the return but he also needs to use the Soto savings on the roster, and if Ohtani unexpectedly waits til after the Winter Meetings then he may be forced to take the bird in hand unless he wants to play a dangerous game of signing players with money he doesn't currently have and with unknown holes filled by the Soto return.

[ToolDRT]

It feels like Soto to the Yankees is a foregone conclusion at this point. I don’t see them on Ohtani and I think Hal will go nuclear if they don’t get a few big names to appease that fan base. Makes Ohtani very important for us. 

[Jason Ross]

14 minutes ago, ToolDRT said:

It feels like Soto to the Yankees is a foregone conclusion at this point. I don’t see them on Ohtani and I think Hal will go nuclear if they don’t get a few big names to appease that fan base. Makes Ohtani very important for us. 

I'd put this in the same category as Ohtani feels like a forgone conclusion to the Dodgers in that I think it's an easy connection to make (large market + need), but one that we'll have to see play out. If Ohtani ends up in LA, for example, I'd expect the Cubs to seriously pivot there and can largely match anything the Yankees provide if they're encouraged enough. Others as well. 

[JHBulls]

What could work in our favour in the Ohtani/Dodgers connection is he has already been in California for 6 years and maybe he wants to play in a different state at this stage of his career. 

[Jason Ross]

Just now, JHBulls said:

What could work in our favour in the Ohtani/Dodgers connection is he has already been in California for 6 years and maybe he wants to play in a different state at this stage of his career. 

Yeah, with Ohtani, there seems to be a lot of different and swaying views out there as to what he wants. We've heard he wants a winner. We've heard he wants to be close to the West Coast. We've heard conflicting reports that he cares less about geography and more about the ballpark. We've heard it's not just money. We've heard he wants little media attention on the meetings...

It's a pretty interesting free agent experience. On one hand, he's the biggest MLB free agent since A-Rod, and on the other, it's been basically devoid of any leaks, speculation or anything other than a few "maybes". We won't see many free agent experiences like this one, I don't think.

[Bertz]

The Yankees farm is also kind of ass (including their recent graduates), so if Jed loses out it's because he didn't like the price not because he couldn't match the price.  

[CubinNY]

22 minutes ago, Bertz said:

The Yankees farm is also kind of ass (including their recent graduates), so if Jed loses out it's because he didn't like the price not because he couldn't match the price.  

I was going to post something similar to this. This screams, "We need news" to me. 

I've not been on the Soto bandwagon for the Cubs. But I have serious doubts about this report. 

[Jason Ross]

While not "Cubs" related, think this is important. Does seem as though regardless of any Soto trade, the ultimate goal will be to hit free agency. Maybe that changes, but does seem to back up any of the preconceived notions on Boras clients.