Bears game 14: Monday Dec 20, at MIN (TCF)

[UMFan83]

 

Whistle blew a sack of Favre dead a second after we began wrapping him up before he was even really falling, and he fumbled the ball on the way down but didnt count because it was dead. Also, Cutler was hit helmet to helmet on the play he threw his interception and it was not called. The Bears were driving before halftime on that drive and at the time it was a big swing.

 

Some have said the roughing the passer call on the Vikings later in the game was really iffy too. I could see an argument made. It's much harder for me with biased eyes to see plays where the Vikings were screwed instead of the Bears though.

 

Who could have possibly thought that roughing the passer by Harris on Webb was really iffy? He launched himself into him helmet to helmet. That was as textbook as it gets.

 

I would have flipped out if they called helmet to helmet on Winfield during the pick. He completely tried to stop as well as he could on a slick field and just grabbed onto Cutler and held him. You can't penalize him because he's short and the field is slick.

 

I'm not talking about Harris to Webb. That was about as easy a call as you can have. I'm talking about whoever hit Cutler late after a pass and was called for roughing the passer. Someone here, maybe multiple people was saying it was iffy.

 

Helmet to helmet is the rule whether its intentional. I've seen unintentional helmet to helmet called all season. It was enought to make Cutler's chin bleed all game.

Edited December 21, 2010 by UMFan83

[Wilson A2000]

Yes, you can. Helmet to helmet is helmet to helmet... not helmet to helmet when players are of similar height and field conditions are good

 

I thought you can go helmet to helmet on running backs?

 

 

Except Jay Cutler isn't a running back

 

Then the helmet to helmet rule has exceptions which was my point.

[Old Style]

How bad was the officiating overall? That hold they called on Kreutz/Garza that made it 1st and 30 was awful. Not calling intentional grounding on Cutler was inexcusable. The pass interference against the Bears on the deep jump ball to Sidney was terrible. Then I thought they mishandled the two Forte forward progress plays late.

 

Chris Harris looked like Ed Reed compared to our safeties. And apparently we could have acquired him just by dealing some guy. Ugh

The first Forte call was a blatant helmet to helmet hit. Not sure how you can complain about that one at all.

 

The second Forte call was more of a judgement call. But I don't think he ever really got completely stopped there. I can see that one as more of a complaint, but it should be looked at completely independently from the previous call which was about leading with the helmet as opposed to piling on a stopped runner.

 

The first one wouldn't have been called if his forward progress hadn't been stopped. That's the problem. They ruled Forte was defenseless and that was why he got the protection of the helmet to helmet rules. Either that call was wrong (because forward progress had not been stopped) or the second call was wrong.

On that first play, Forte was being held stationary for a decent length of time by around 4-5 guys. The helmet to helmet is a point of emphasis right now, so it's going to get called more often than not in those situations.

 

There were never that many on him on the second play. I don't think he ever got completely stopped on that play, either. But I think this was much more of a judgement call.

On Favre's last play, he fumbled the ball but the ref blew the whistle way too quickly.

[Wilson A2000]

And what happens if there's a 4-way tie at 10-6 between the Packers, Giants, Bucs, and Saints? This could happen...

 

Three or More Clubs

 

(Note: If two clubs remain tied after third or other clubs are eliminated during any step, tie breaker reverts to step 1 of the two-club format).

 

1. Head-to-head (best won-lost-tied percentage in games among the clubs).

2. Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the division.

3. Best won-lost-tied percentage in common games.

4. Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the conference.

5. Strength of victory.

6. Strength of schedule.

7. Best combined ranking among conference teams in points scored and points allowed.

8. Best combined ranking among all teams in points scored and points allowed.

9. Best net points in common games.

10. Best net points in all games.

11. Best net touchdowns in all games.

12. Coin toss

[David]

Then the helmet to helmet rule has exceptions which was my point.

 

 

I was referring to hawkeyecub's post on that particular play. I should've quoted, but I didn't realize this thread was moving quite this quickly.

Edited December 21, 2010 by David

[rawaction]

I think every call mentioned in this last page was a bad call.

 

The helmet to helmet on Forte was weak. Technically, it was helmet-to-helmet contact on a defenseless player, but no whistle had blown. Players should play until the whistle.

 

Cutler got hit with a helmet to chin on the INT.

 

Early whistle on the Favre concussion should have been a fumble.

 

Late hit on Cutler should not have been called as one guy hit him into another Viking, who got blocked into the spot where Cutler went after being hit.

 

The one I will side with is the last Forte forward progress play. He never stopped moving his feet.

[jersey cubs fan]

Yes, you can. Helmet to helmet is helmet to helmet... not helmet to helmet when players are of similar height and field conditions are good

 

I thought you can go helmet to helmet on running backs?

 

 

Except Jay Cutler isn't a running back

 

Then the helmet to helmet rule has exceptions which was my point.

 

Helmet to helmet on a passing QB is supposed to be called every time. There aren't exceptions for height and field conditions.

 

Running backs are a completely different situation. That is like saying there are exceptions to pass interference since you are allowed to tackle a player once he has the ball.

[UMFan83]

And what happens if there's a 4-way tie at 10-6 between the Packers, Giants, Bucs, and Saints? This could happen...

 

A 4 way tie at 10-6 gives the 5 seed to Green Bay, and the 6 seed to the Giants.

[jersey cubs fan]

The helmet to helmet on Forte was weak. Technically, it was helmet-to-helmet contact on a defenseless player, but no whistle had blown. Players should play until the whistle.

 

 

Late hit on Cutler should not have been called as one guy hit him into another Viking, who got blocked into the spot where Cutler went after being hit.

 

 

Raw, helmet to helmet isn't allowed when a guy is being held up, the lack of whistle is meaningless. You can't hit with your helmet there.

 

As for the other pinball hit, Cutler had his helmet knocked halfway off after getting hit by 2 defenders with the throw gone. That was after they missed a blatant helmet to helmet. Maybe it was a make up call, but QBs getting hit late and having their helmet knocked like that is going to brings flags. I would be pissed if it was called against the Bears, but that's going to get called.

[hawkeyecub]

You're ignoring that it was extremely difficult to tell that he even hit him up high in real time (though $100 jersey says he was able to tell easily and it's not his fault that I can't see). He struck him in the chest and even when you slow it down to frame by frame you see that only a fraction of the top of his helmet makes contact with the very bottom of his facemask. The referee was behind him and shielded. I think it would have been a bad call.

[UMFan83]

Here is a video of the Favre sack. Tell me the whistle was not too early, I dare you. They don't hold him up very long at all. He was in the process of falling down when they blew the whistle in the middle of his fall. There is no way that's not an early whistle. I understand the early whistle because of the field conditions but it screwed the Bears there.

 

[Wilson A2000]

Yes, you can. Helmet to helmet is helmet to helmet... not helmet to helmet when players are of similar height and field conditions are good

 

I thought you can go helmet to helmet on running backs?

 

 

Except Jay Cutler isn't a running back

 

Then the helmet to helmet rule has exceptions which was my point.

 

Helmet to helmet on a passing QB is supposed to be called every time. There aren't exceptions for height and field conditions.

 

Running backs are a completely different situation. That is like saying there are exceptions to pass interference since you are allowed to tackle a player once he has the ball.

 

I am aware of that. But the original point was that "helmet to helmet is helmet to helmet" which it isn't because the exception is the running back.

[David]

You're ignoring that it was extremely difficult to tell that he even hit him up high in real time (though $100 jersey says he was able to tell easily and it's not his fault that I can't see). He struck him in the chest and even when you slow it down to frame by frame you see that only a fraction of the top of his helmet makes contact with the very bottom of his facemask. The referee was behind him and shielded. I think it would have been a bad call.

 

So now you're arguing that it would've been a bad call because it was too hard to see that the infraction actually happened?

[jersey cubs fan]

You're ignoring that it was extremely difficult to tell that he even hit him up high in real time

 

I think it would have been a bad call.

 

You keep matching dumb statements with dumber statements. The 100% correct call would be bad because maybe you couldn't tell it happened if you ignored what happened? Please keep saying stupid crap, it makes me feel better about hating the Vikings.

[hawkeyecub]

I left out that Wooten is a goon and a thug who lacks any morals or chracter and should have his kneecaps broken post haste.

[mul21]

I left out that Jared Allen is a goon and a thug who lacks any morals or chracter and should have his kneecaps broken post haste.

[CubColtPacer]

You're ignoring that it was extremely difficult to tell that he even hit him up high in real time (though $100 jersey says he was able to tell easily and it's not his fault that I can't see). He struck him in the chest and even when you slow it down to frame by frame you see that only a fraction of the top of his helmet makes contact with the very bottom of his facemask. The referee was behind him and shielded. I think it would have been a bad call.

 

So now you're arguing that it would've been a bad call because it was too hard to see that the infraction actually happened?

 

Agreed. I actually sympathize with the argument that it was an understandable call to miss. But it still was a bad call. The only intent on helmet to helmet is determining if the player was defenseless. A QB in the pocket is always considered defenseless so helmet to helmet is never allowed. They don't measure intent or ducking their head or anything like that. In fact, they made it a point to say that the defender has to adjust to those things to avoid being called.

[jersey cubs fan]

I am aware of that. But the original point was that "helmet to helmet is helmet to helmet" which it isn't because the exception is the running back.

 

Helmet to helmet on a passing QB is helmet to helmet on a passing QB. Obviously helmets make contact with each other all game long, it's a pointless distinction.

[hawkeyecub]

You're ignoring that it was extremely difficult to tell that he even hit him up high in real time

 

I think it would have been a bad call.

 

You keep matching dumb statements with dumber statements. The 100% correct call would be bad because maybe you couldn't tell it happened if you ignored what happened? Please keep saying stupid crap, it makes me feel better about hating the Vikings.

 

Shouldn't you be listening to a Bill Simmons podcast with the sole purpose of complaining about it here? He put it up yesterday and we don't want you to fall behind.

[hawkeyecub]

Or his latest column.

[hawkeyecub]

Or Peter King's latest column.

[Guest]

Awesome game. Just what the offensive line needed to gain a little bit of extra confidence. I thought they performed really well last night.

 

Absolutely hilarious that the Vikings punter was pooching twenty yard punts to avoid kicking to Hester, and then the first time he actually does kick one to him, he runs it in for a touchdown. That's just poetry in motion, right there.

 

I also need to give props to Lovie. They have made something out of what I felt was looking more like nothing earlier in the year.

 

Glad to see some different guys catch balls last night. Cutler was amazing. Peppers is definitely going to be in the running for defensive player of the year. Just a great, great night.

[bukie]

Maybe you could stop spam trolling the thread and take your bitterness elsewhere.

[jersey cubs fan]

You're ignoring that it was extremely difficult to tell that he even hit him up high in real time

 

I think it would have been a bad call.

 

You keep matching dumb statements with dumber statements. The 100% correct call would be bad because maybe you couldn't tell it happened if you ignored what happened? Please keep saying stupid crap, it makes me feel better about hating the Vikings.

 

Shouldn't you be listening to a Bill Simmons podcast with the sole purpose of complaining about it here? He put it up yesterday and we don't want you to fall behind.

 

No, I was asking for more dumb stuff about the game. Please? You are good at it.

[jersey cubs fan]

Absolutely hilarious that the Vikings punter was pooching twenty yard punts to avoid kicking to Hester, and then the first time he actually does kick one to him, he runs it in for a touchdown. That's just poetry in motion, right there.

 

Not only that, but he was pumping his fist when the ball would land out of bounds.